Brian Cowen - no State portrait commissioned yet

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 17-01-2016 12:04PM

You know what, I've seen him out and about in real life, and I've never stopped to look twice, he doesn't look like the ugliest man on the planet or anything. He's an average looking lad. No oil painting, but nothing to match the abuse he gets on a regular basis. He also has two daughters, and I know I'd be devastated reading horrible nasty comments like that about my father, when his looks or lack thereof has little bearing on anything of relevance. Imagine have to read that about your parent.

crazygeryy · 17-01-2016 12:04PM

what about this one?

http://www.skibbereeneagle.ie/web/wp-content/uploads/blogger/_Nf5FfHNth64/ScpU50cn8xI/AAAAAAAAEa4/xX-Helw0iYA/s1600/Brian%2BCowen%2B2.jpg

Den_M · 17-01-2016 12:05PM

To everyone that posted the usual mindless unimaginative insulting bull crap about politicians here - Cowen rose to lead his party and lead his country. What have you ever done with your life that compares and allows you to be so critical? Really, what gives your opinion on this any single bit of relevance whatsoever?

No matter whos in power or who's in office you get the same bunch of dolts every year talking the same garbage like they have an iota what they're on about.

And for reference, I don't care a jot about any political party so I'm not sticking up for FF or whoever, just hate that kind of laziness and stupidity

gifted · 17-01-2016 12:06PM

DeanAustin wrote: »

Was Cowen corrupt though?

Can't be proved would would say he was very selective with his daily workload.

RobertKK · 17-01-2016 12:07PM

Yes, doesn't matter if one likes or dislikes the person, he was a leader in this country. One can argue how effective he was, but yes he should have a portrait to join the other portraits of our former leader, no matter how good or bad they were at their job.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 17-01-2016 12:09PM

maryishere wrote: »

Cowen with his greedy pension (for doing what?) . A pension bigger than many other Prime Ministers in Europe are actually paid. He can >>>>> off back to his bog. I know some people who committed suicide, others who emigrated, other who had their lives ruined as a result of our greedy corrupt politicians in this country.

Funny that, when he was handing out increases to social welfare, and medical cards to anyone who looked for them, when he didn't increase the tax on the cigarettes or alcohol, people thought he was a great fella altogether.

Also, people seem to lack any sort of personal responsibility. When you take out 100% mortgages, or 110% mortgages, with little means of paying it back, or you're living a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade wage, not saving anything for a rainy day, you can't turn around and blame Brian Cowen or Enda Kenny for that.

crazygeryy · 17-01-2016 12:10PM

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes, doesn't matter if one likes or dislikes the person, he was a leader in this country. One can argue how effective he was, but yes he should have a portrait to join the other portraits of our former leader, no matter how good or bad they were at their job.

yea but if it was put to a public vote.do you think bertie and himself would get one?not a hope in hell.
hardly any of them would.but its not up to us is it.

DeanAustin · 17-01-2016 12:15PM

Den_M wrote: »

To everyone that posted the usual mindless unimaginative insulting bull crap about politicians here - Cowen rose to lead his party and lead his country. What have you ever done with your life that compares and allows you to be so critical? Really, what gives your opinion on this any single bit of relevance whatsoever?

No matter whos in power or who's in office you get the same bunch of dolts every year talking the same garbage like they have an iota what they're on about.

And for reference, I don't care a jot about any political party so I'm not sticking up for FF or whoever, just hate that kind of laziness and stupidity

You raise some good points but I do think people have a right to judge Cowen on his time in office. The stuff about how he looks is beneath contempt though.

Personally, I think the decisions Cowen made, particularly in Finance, had a big bearing on where we ended up but I do think he was making those decisions in what he thought were the best interests of the country with the information he had to hand. Let's be fair, FG and Labour were making similar promises to FF in 2007. It's easy to be wise after the fact. The fact that FF were struggling in the 2007 race despite the economy booming says everything about the voters. FF were struggling not because most people felt they were ruining the economy but because the other lads wanted to give away more.

His time as Taoiseach is difficult to judge. He made some odd appointments but he was faced with an unprecedented situation. It wasn't a case of whether the country would be f**ked or not, it was how f**ked we'd be. Arguably Cowen and his Government didn't help but that Government certainly didn't cause the crisis. Painting him as the bogeyman is a ridiculously simplistic narrative.

17-01-2016 12:16PM

maryishere wrote: »

Cowen with his greedy pension (for doing what?) . A pension bigger than many other Prime Ministers in Europe are actually paid. He can >>>>> off back to his bog. I know some people who committed suicide, others who emigrated, other who had their lives ruined as a result of our greedy corrupt politicians in this country.

We all know people who have committed suicide, but for reasons a lot more complex than "politicians".

DeanAustin · 17-01-2016 12:17PM

gifted wrote: »

Can't be proved would would say he was very selective with his daily workload.

What do you mean?

Fleawuss · 17-01-2016 12:19PM

Den_M wrote: »

To everyone that posted the usual mindless unimaginative insulting bull crap about politicians here - Cowen rose to lead his party and lead his country. What have you ever done with your life that compares and allows you to be so critical? Really, what gives your opinion on this any single bit of relevance whatsoever?

No matter whos in power or who's in office you get the same bunch of dolts every year talking the same garbage like they have an iota what they're on about.

And for reference, I don't care a jot about any political party so I'm not sticking up for FF or whoever, just hate that kind of laziness and stupidity

Giving your opinion is part of a democracy. Your "logic" that to be critical of a Taoiseach you have to have done something comparable is absurd: you have just excluded everyone bar Bruton, Ahern, Kenny and Cowen. Your thinking is the usual deferential subservient rubbish that allows the "great man" to be an incompetent buffoon and the role of the rest of us is to tug the forelock.

Foxhound38 · 17-01-2016 12:19PM

If all of the other Taoisigh have one then he should have one too in fairness. No fan of the man, but it would be a bit pitiful of us to withold an official portrait out of spite.

Besides, Cowan's crime was incompetence rather than malice I think. The real damage to our economy and political system was done by Bertie, and if you want to go back far enough the seeds of this toxicity were planted by Haughey.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 17-01-2016 12:20PM

DeanAustin wrote: »

You raise some good points but I do think people have a right to judge Cowen on his time in office. The stuff about how he looks is beneath contempt though.

Personally, I think the decisions Cowen made, particularly in Finance, had a big bearing on where we ended up but I do think he was making those decisions in what he thought were the best interests of the country with the information he had to hand. Let's be fair, FG and Labour were making similar promises to FF in 2007. It's easy to be wise after the fact. The fact that FF were struggling in the 2007 race despite the economy booming says everything about the voters. FF were struggling not because most people felt they were ruining the economy but because the other lads wanted to give away more.

His time as Taoiseach is difficult to judge. He made some odd appointments but he was faced with an unprecedented situation. It wasn't a case of whether the country would be f**ked or not, it was how f**ked we'd be. Arguably Cowen and his Government didn't help but that Government certainly didn't cause the crisis. Painting him as the bogeyman is a ridiculously simplistic narrative.

Well said.
I remember the budget in 2007, and Enda Kenny coming on rte saying that even more should have been allocated to the social welfare. So it's not like they were going to do anything different, they seemed to be all singing from the same hymn sheet

Foxhound38 · 17-01-2016 12:22PM

DeanAustin wrote: »

Was Cowen corrupt though?

To be honest, I doubt it. He wasn't a particularly good Taoiseach or even a particularly good Minister but I don't think he was dodgy either in fairness - unlike his predescessor.

Quandary · 17-01-2016 12:25PM

If Bertie Ahearn and Charles J are entitled to have their portraits after how they allegedly conducted themselves then so should Cowen.

RobertKK · 17-01-2016 12:30PM

crazygeryy wrote: »

yea but if it was put to a public vote.do you think bertie and himself would get one?not a hope in hell.
hardly any of them would.but its not up to us is it.

They wouldn't.

But then an argument could be made about Cowen that while his government was falling apart all around him, they were making the tough decisions, a lot of budget cuts and tax increases were brought in and the bailout deal was mostly the same as the one that FG/Lab implemented with a few tweaks and help from Greek concessions.
He won't be looked on favourably, but given what we know now, we know that there was a lot of outside pressure on the country whether from the ECB or the US, and some options were not allowed happen like the famous 'burn the bondholders'.

FG posted a graph on twitter last night claiming the recovery and showed the graph under FF and then under FG.
The funny thing is the uptrend had started before FG took power.
So one could argue the policies that rescued the economy from the abyss, (after policies that put it in the abyss, along with very poor regulation), were policies from the time of Cowen in his final couple of years.
https://twitter.com/FineGael/status/688464244661075968

It could be argued that Brian Lenihan as he battled cancer, did do a lot of the heavy lifting with the economy in the Cowen government.
I think Cowen should have his portrait done, don't think he was a great leader, lacked inspiration, but did do a lot of the hard work when the economy did face a black hole, which was a much more global problem than just Ireland, but regulation in this country was so bad.

Den_M · 17-01-2016 12:35PM

Fleawuss wrote: »

Giving your opinion is part of a democracy. Your "logic" that to be critical of a Taoiseach you have to have done something comparable is absurd: you have just excluded everyone bar Bruton, Ahern, Kenny etc

Hey I have no problem with someone giving thoughtful constructive criticism, as is everyones right. I was talking about the lazy insulting generalisations that get spewed forth, see earlier replies in this thread for examples. Thought I had made that obvious

Fleawuss · 17-01-2016 12:51PM

Den_M wrote: »

Hey I have no problem with someone giving thoughtful constructive criticism, as is everyones right. I was talking about the lazy insulting generalisations that get spewed forth, see earlier replies in this thread for examples. Thought I had made that obvious

I pointed out to you that your generalization was absurd. Criticizing others for "lazy generalizations" when your own post was clearly absurd is funny.

Zebra3 · 17-01-2016 01:00PM

viztopia wrote: »

I think there should be. I think the damage was done before he was in charge and not even the marvellous Kenny could have saved us

Yep, he has no responsibility for what did/didn't do as Minister for Finance.....

smurgen · 17-01-2016 01:10PM

Maybe the fact he has a ugly face that resembles a fat vagina has something to do with it.

Boom_Bap · 17-01-2016 02:22PM

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cowen-no-one-has-contacted-me-about-my-state-portrait-34370808.html

So AH - should Leinster House follow protocol and arrange the portrait sitting, or is memory of one infamous portrait of Cowen enough for the nation?

AH? Try the Politics Cafe.

I'm not going to move as there is loads to tidy up before moving, and the poll probably wont carry across either. So the thread wont make much sense.

Thread Closed.

Brian Cowen - no State portrait commissioned yet

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