IR Drivers to strike over 10min service rosters

Infini · 15-01-2016 3:40pm #1

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/drivers-to-vote-on-possible-strike-action-if-darts-run-every-10-minutes-34367640.html

Well with the Luas drivers striking over pay the drivers over in IR are also gonna strike if management attempt a unilateral imposition of new rosters. Before the haters kick off this only happens if management force it its not about pay etc. There is also genuine safety concerns if they start running short 4 carrige trains during the rush hour to make this service happen.

LXFlyer · 15-01-2016 3:45pm

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

To be honest this sounds like them trying to link their other dispute to something totally unrelated.

And they are only balloting for strike action - your headline is a tad misleading at this stage.

dublindiehard · 15-01-2016 3:47pm

Four car dangerously overcrowded trains already operate during evening peak .

Nice red herring though

Says it all that staff have to approve timetables for what is supposed to be a public service.

Who would want to be in Irish rail management when you are insubordinated every day by staff

dublindiehard · 15-01-2016 3:49pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

To be honest this sounds like them trying to link their other dispute to something totally unrelated.

And they are only balloting for strike action - your headline is a tad misleading at this stage.

The draft timetable should improve things in peak . The current one northbound in evening on the dart bears nothing in common with demand on the two branches

devnull · 15-01-2016 3:56pm

The timetable will certainly help with overcrowding in the evening peak on the Northside.

Being someone who commutes to/from Clontarf from the Malahide branch, between 5.30pm and 7.00pm there are just TWO Darts heading to Malahide which are BOTH four cars which are like sardines until Clongriffin, sometimes it is impossible to board. Meanwhile between 5.30pm and 6.30pm there are five Howth trains that are either 4/6 cars which have only a handful of people in each carriage after Howth Junction and plenty of room when they get to Clontarf.

The new timetable even if every train is 4 cars will be hugely better than what is there now, removing the excess capacity on the Howth Branch and adding it to the Malahide branch where it is needed more, matching capacity to demand and removing timetables with huge gaps.

hmmm · 15-01-2016 4:00pm

We need to ban strikes in monopoly public services. Balloting for a strike every time there is even the suggestion of a work practice change is unacceptable in a modern workplace.

Carawaystick · 15-01-2016 4:08pm

Luckily the RSC say there is no such thing as dangerous overcrowding on trains. Otherwise the overcrowding on trains might actually be dealt with...

Decuc500 · 15-01-2016 4:17pm

devnull wrote: »

Being someone who commutes to/from Clontarf from the Malahide branch, between 5.30pm and 7.00pm there are just TWO Darts heading to Malahide which are BOTH four cars which are like sardines until Clongriffin, sometimes it is impossible to board. Meanwhile between 5.30pm and 6.30pm there are five Howth trains that are either 4/6 cars which have only a handful of people in each carriage after Howth Junction and plenty of room when they get to Clontarf.

The new timetable even if every train is 4 cars will be hugely better than what is there now, removing the excess capacity on the Howth Branch and adding it to the Malahide branch where it is needed more, matching capacity to demand and removing timetables with huge gaps.

Wouldn't the easiest solution to this be to increase those two Malahide darts from 4 carriages to 8 carriages? A Northside Dart service split up into 20 minute gaps between Howth and Malahide will only be workable if all trains are 8 carriages long. 4 car trains to Howth every 20 minutes would be the same disaster as the Malahide situation you highlight above.

LXFlyer · 15-01-2016 4:22pm

Once again - I'll reiterate this - funding for putting more trains into service has been agreed.

Suggestions of more 4 car trains is nothing more than Union scaremongering.

The Howth branch will more than cope with a 20 minute evening peak service.

devnull · 15-01-2016 5:13pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

Wouldn't the easiest solution to this be to increase those two Malahide darts from 4 carriages to 8 carriages? A Northside Dart service split up into 20 minute gaps between Howth and Malahide will only be workable if all trains are 8 carriages long. 4 car trains to Howth every 20 minutes would be the same disaster as the Malahide situation you highlight above.

Not really, from my observation the vast majority of the passengers on the Howth trains are not going beyond Howth Junction in the second half of evening peak, often there is not enough passengers to fill a single carriage after Howth Junction.

Last week I was on a Howth Train where there were about 6 people left on my carriage after getting of at Howth Junction, I crossed the platform to get the Malahide bound service and there was barely any room to stand. The core issue is the current timetable and the gaps.

From Clontarf to Howth you have trains at
17:06
17:16
17:32
17:43
17:51
18:13
18:31

From Clontarf to Malahide it's
17:28
17:58 (4 Cars)
18:46 (4 Cars)

The other strange thing about those last two trains is there appears to be an unusually large number of passengers boarding them at Howth Junction, I presume having took earlier, less overcrowded Howth trains.

Idbatterim · 15-01-2016 5:22pm

election coming up typical, thank god FF arent in power, their only question would be "how much to keep them quiet" endless money for pay rises etc, virtually nothing to invest in the infrastructure, carriages etc, typical of here!

We need to ban strikes in monopoly public services. Balloting for a strike every time there is even the suggestion of a work practice change is unacceptable in a modern workplace.

could CIE be totally done away with, keep the infrastructure in state ownership, but have private operators provide the service? It seems fairly obvious to me, that CIE staff think the company is run solely for their benefit!

Infini · 15-01-2016 5:33pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

Funding agreed isnt the same as having trains there tho. Honestly I dont know why were trying to have a 10 min service right now instead of getting capacity back up first. Its one thing if we had loads of packed 8 carrige trains but atm the problem really is the lack of large trains and too many trains heading to howth instead of balancing it out with malahide. A balanced service that eliminates the inefficiencies and proper lenght trains wouldve been better first then build out from there. Looks more of a gimmick to me atm.

Infini · 15-01-2016 5:39pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

ecould CIE be totally done away with, keep the infrastructure in state ownership, but have private operators provide the service? It seems fairly obvious to me, that CIE staff think the company is run solely for their benefit!

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!

People strike for various reasons and everyone has that right no matter what tou work in if they feel theyre being bullied around but unfortunately too many haters gonna hate are around nowadays. Its sad how irish society has gone downhill nowadays.

LXFlyer · 15-01-2016 5:49pm

Infini2 wrote: »

Funding agreed isnt the same as having trains there tho. Honestly I dont know why were trying to have a 10 min service right now instead of getting capacity back up first. Its one thing if we had loads of packed 8 carrige trains but atm the problem really is the lack of large trains and too many trains heading to howth instead of balancing it out with malahide. A balanced service that eliminates the inefficiencies and proper lenght trains wouldve been better first then build out from there. Looks more of a gimmick to me atm.

The trains are there. They just haven't been in daily use due to the funding shortfall and cost reductions.

The agreed funding allows for more DART sets to be in sets daily use, which as I understand it, will mean peak trains being the right size.

This timetable does deliver a balanced service between the two northern branches so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that.

This really is a smokescreen from the unions.

Idbatterim · 15-01-2016 5:56pm

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!

People strike for various reasons and everyone has that right no matter what tou work in if they feel theyre being bullied around but unfortunately too many haters gonna hate are around nowadays. Its sad how irish society has gone downhill nowadays.

yes for the first time in a decade! I take the luas frequently enough and it cant be compared to the sham that is CIE. I dont have an issue with reasonable pay claims etc after a certain period. many CIE staff and the unions have been taking the piss for years, ably assisted by Bertie "money no object" ahern...

Infini · 15-01-2016 6:27pm

hmmm wrote: »

We need to ban strikes in monopoly public services. Balloting for a strike every time there is even the suggestion of a work practice change is unacceptable in a modern workplace.

Yeeeah they tried that with the guards for years until the EU basically said nope to that. They cant ban the guards from striking so trying to ban anyone else is NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Four car dangerously overcrowded trains already operate during evening peak .

Nice red herring though

Not if it turns out that nearly every train ends up being a 4 carriage train. As for the point about more trains being brought back into service while thats the plan thats not a 100% certainty right now if they havent all been done.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Says it all that staff have to approve timetables for what is supposed to be a public service.

Staff aren't the ones approving timetables rather its making staff come in earlier and/or outside their current agreed hours and rosters that's the issue. This might've not been an issue if it weren't for the fact that managements total treatment of the drivers over the last number of years has undermined any credibility and ability to lead they might have had.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Who would want to be in Irish rail management when you are insubordinated every day by staff

Its not a case of all drivers being lazy or bothered etc (theres some of them types in EVERY JOB not just the rail), most are reasonable but if you think you can bully your way around like your in secondary school which is the general attitude of management then you got another thing coming. These things dont happen simply because it doesn't suit people but because people who shouldnt be there in management there are there, cant handle the job and end up alienating their of those under them. First rule of being in charge: dont be a dick, act the dick and your credibility and leadership go down the toilet very quickly as those under you are alienated and refuse to deal with you.

GM228 · 15-01-2016 6:36pm

Infini2 wrote: »

Yeeeah they tried that with the guards for years until the EU basically said nope to that. They cant ban the guards from striking so trying to ban anyone else is NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

Sorry for going off topic, but I tought despite an EU ruling that the government defeated the bill allowing the Gardaí to strike?

Infini · 15-01-2016 8:49pm

GM228 wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic, but I tought despite an EU ruling that the government defeated the bill allowing the Gardaí to strike?

Bill might've gotten defeated but they still have won the right to strike from a higher level in the EU. Government will drag it as long as they can tho like anything else until they're forced to change it. Ultimately guards havent had any issues to strike so far but expect that to change at some point once its challenged.

Grandeeod · 15-01-2016 9:11pm

Infini2 wrote: »

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!

Look closer and you'll see that the luas strike can be linked to the payscale in CIE.

jimmycrackcorm · 15-01-2016 9:34pm

Infini2 wrote:

Staff aren't the ones approving timetables rather its making staff come in earlier and/or outside their current agreed hours and rosters that's the issue. This might've not been an issue if it weren't for the fact that managements total treatment of the drivers over the last number of years has undermined any credibility and ability to lead they might have had.

Its the staff who are objecting to providing a better customer service.

Grandeeod · 15-01-2016 9:50pm

Infini2 wrote: »

Staff aren't the ones approving timetables rather its making staff come in earlier and/or outside their current agreed hours and rosters that's the issue. This might've not been an issue if it weren't for the fact that managements total treatment of the drivers over the last number of years has undermined any credibility and ability to lead they might have had.

I know this sounds like a mantra at this stage, but the CIE group as a whole is like an infected wound. While it has its supporters/defenders, they tend to only side with the workers and blame management and the Government on almost everything else. The CIE issue and it is an issue, can be solved by doing the following at the very least.

Slash management positions and salaries.

Continue to impliment current plans with staff.

Rebrand (not respray). Rid PT in Ireland of the name, "CIE".

Lead from the top down.

A complete culture change.

Its not easy, but unless you start it, nothing will change.

Wanderer78 · 15-01-2016 10:20pm

mother of divine god, will irish people please stand up and start supporting each other. if we dont stand up now and do this, we will all be on minimum wage or lower, forever!

Grandeeod · 15-01-2016 10:39pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

mother of divine god, will irish people please stand up and start supporting each other. if we dont stand up now and do this, we will all be on minimum wage or lower, forever!

No we won't. We aren't talking about minimum wage anyway.

Wanderer78 · 15-01-2016 10:42pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

No we won't. We aren't talking about minimum wage anyway.

i really wish people would do some research into why the whole recession happened in the first place. this is getting very serious. please support your fellow hard working country folk.

Grandeeod · 15-01-2016 10:45pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i really wish people would do some research into why the whole recession happened in the first place. this is getting very serious. please support your fellow hard working country folk.

I'll skip. You sound like a troll. Come back to me with some kind of relevence to the topic.

Wanderer78 · 15-01-2016 10:48pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll skip. You sound like a troll. Come back to me with some kind of relevence to the topic.

check out the work of ellen brown, michael hudson, bill black, ha-joon chang etc. this is all a part of a very complex problem. i ll leave it at that as i will derail the thread

devnull · 15-01-2016 11:07pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

check out the work of ellen brown, michael hudson, bill black, ha-joon chang etc. this is all a part of a very complex problem. i ll leave it at that as i will derail the thread

I took a look at the link in your sig, The first thing I saw was Russia Today (aka Putin TV) and lots of propaganda about how we should follow the Russians' leads. If you really believe that kind of stuff and Putin is going to be the savoir of everyone you really are deluded. Next thing you'll be telling me is North Korea is a country we should be aspiring to be? As someone who knows people who have lived through real communism rather than reading it in books, I can tell you that it is not the box of chocolates the hard left like to paint it as.

Nobody mentioned minimum wage, just because someone who is on a good wage doesn't get a raise doesn't mean they are gonna get knocked down all the way, it's the typical red herring people come out on this board with but they are never able to actually show where that happened.

Wanderer78 · 15-01-2016 11:10pm

devnull wrote: »

I took a look at the link in your sig, The first thing I saw was Russia Today (aka Putin TV) and lots of propaganda about how we should follow the Russians' leads. If you really believe that kind of stuff and Putin is going to be the savoir of everyone you really are deluded.

aww i give up i really do! please look further! nothing to do with putin as such!

devnull · 15-01-2016 11:13pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

aww i give up i really do! please look further! nothing to do with putin as such!

Russia Today is basically Putin Propaganda TV and the fact that said people seem to appear on there on a regular basis does their credibility no favors.

Wanderer78 · 15-01-2016 11:15pm

devnull wrote: »

Russia Today is basically Putin Propaganda TV and the fact that said people seem to appear on there on a regular basis does their credibility no favors.

move on from rt and check out the other stuff!

Jamie2k9 · 15-01-2016 11:15pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

To be honest this sounds like them trying to link their other dispute to something totally unrelated.

And they are only balloting for strike action - your headline is a tad misleading at this stage.

They will it is almost inevitable that all services will be 2/4 coaches off peak and possibly a few 6 coaches at peak hours.

The proposed frequency is heavily overestimated in comparison to actual demand and I would give it 6 months before capacity cut and possibly freq cuts in the evenings. While I agree with the comment about the unions, 8 coach units will become history unless thousands more flock to DART because of the timetable change which is unlikely.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Four car dangerously overcrowded trains already operate during evening peak .

Nice red herring though

Says it all that staff have to approve timetables for what is supposed to be a public service.

Who would want to be in Irish rail management when you are insubordinated every day by staff

An extra 8 coaches at peak hours will help.
______

There is only a certain amount of time the NTA will plug the black hole and IE cannot expect commuter/intercity customers to make up the short fall as it was us who bared the brunt of cuts in recent years until it clicked that DART needed to have significant cuts to bring it into line with demand.

IR Drivers to strike over 10min service rosters

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