IR Drivers to strike over 10min service rosters

Infini

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/drivers-to-vote-on-possible-strike-action-if-darts-run-every-10-minutes-34367640.html

Well with the Luas drivers striking over pay the drivers over in IR are also gonna strike if management attempt a unilateral imposition of new rosters. Before the haters kick off this only happens if management force it its not about pay etc. There is also genuine safety concerns if they start running short 4 carrige trains during the rush hour to make this service happen.

LXFlyer

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

To be honest this sounds like them trying to link their other dispute to something totally unrelated.

And they are only balloting for strike action - your headline is a tad misleading at this stage.

dublindiehard

Four car dangerously overcrowded trains already operate during evening peak .

Nice red herring though

Says it all that staff have to approve timetables for what is supposed to be a public service.

Who would want to be in Irish rail management when you are insubordinated every day by staff

dublindiehard

lxflyer wrote: »

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

To be honest this sounds like them trying to link their other dispute to something totally unrelated.

And they are only balloting for strike action - your headline is a tad misleading at this stage.

The draft timetable should improve things in peak . The current one northbound in evening on the dart bears nothing in common with demand on the two branches

devnull

The timetable will certainly help with overcrowding in the evening peak on the Northside.

Being someone who commutes to/from Clontarf from the Malahide branch, between 5.30pm and 7.00pm there are just TWO Darts heading to Malahide which are BOTH four cars which are like sardines until Clongriffin, sometimes it is impossible to board. Meanwhile between 5.30pm and 6.30pm there are five Howth trains that are either 4/6 cars which have only a handful of people in each carriage after Howth Junction and plenty of room when they get to Clontarf.

The new timetable even if every train is 4 cars will be hugely better than what is there now, removing the excess capacity on the Howth Branch and adding it to the Malahide branch where it is needed more, matching capacity to demand and removing timetables with huge gaps.

hmmm

We need to ban strikes in monopoly public services. Balloting for a strike every time there is even the suggestion of a work practice change is unacceptable in a modern workplace.

Carawaystick

Luckily the RSC say there is no such thing as dangerous overcrowding on trains. Otherwise the overcrowding on trains might actually be dealt with...

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

Being someone who commutes to/from Clontarf from the Malahide branch, between 5.30pm and 7.00pm there are just TWO Darts heading to Malahide which are BOTH four cars which are like sardines until Clongriffin, sometimes it is impossible to board. Meanwhile between 5.30pm and 6.30pm there are five Howth trains that are either 4/6 cars which have only a handful of people in each carriage after Howth Junction and plenty of room when they get to Clontarf.

The new timetable even if every train is 4 cars will be hugely better than what is there now, removing the excess capacity on the Howth Branch and adding it to the Malahide branch where it is needed more, matching capacity to demand and removing timetables with huge gaps.

Wouldn't the easiest solution to this be to increase those two Malahide darts from 4 carriages to 8 carriages? A Northside Dart service split up into 20 minute gaps between Howth and Malahide will only be workable if all trains are 8 carriages long. 4 car trains to Howth every 20 minutes would be the same disaster as the Malahide situation you highlight above.

LXFlyer

Once again - I'll reiterate this - funding for putting more trains into service has been agreed.

Suggestions of more 4 car trains is nothing more than Union scaremongering.

The Howth branch will more than cope with a 20 minute evening peak service.

devnull

Decuc500 wrote: »

Wouldn't the easiest solution to this be to increase those two Malahide darts from 4 carriages to 8 carriages? A Northside Dart service split up into 20 minute gaps between Howth and Malahide will only be workable if all trains are 8 carriages long. 4 car trains to Howth every 20 minutes would be the same disaster as the Malahide situation you highlight above.

Not really, from my observation the vast majority of the passengers on the Howth trains are not going beyond Howth Junction in the second half of evening peak, often there is not enough passengers to fill a single carriage after Howth Junction.

Last week I was on a Howth Train where there were about 6 people left on my carriage after getting of at Howth Junction, I crossed the platform to get the Malahide bound service and there was barely any room to stand. The core issue is the current timetable and the gaps.

From Clontarf to Howth you have trains at
17:06
17:16
17:32
17:43
17:51
18:13
18:31

From Clontarf to Malahide it's
17:28
17:58 (4 Cars)
18:46 (4 Cars)

The other strange thing about those last two trains is there appears to be an unusually large number of passengers boarding them at Howth Junction, I presume having took earlier, less overcrowded Howth trains.

Idbatterim

election coming up typical, thank god FF arent in power, their only question would be "how much to keep them quiet" endless money for pay rises etc, virtually nothing to invest in the infrastructure, carriages etc, typical of here!

We need to ban strikes in monopoly public services. Balloting for a strike every time there is even the suggestion of a work practice change is unacceptable in a modern workplace.

could CIE be totally done away with, keep the infrastructure in state ownership, but have private operators provide the service? It seems fairly obvious to me, that CIE staff think the company is run solely for their benefit!

Infini

lxflyer wrote: »

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

Funding agreed isnt the same as having trains there tho. Honestly I dont know why were trying to have a 10 min service right now instead of getting capacity back up first. Its one thing if we had loads of packed 8 carrige trains but atm the problem really is the lack of large trains and too many trains heading to howth instead of balancing it out with malahide. A balanced service that eliminates the inefficiencies and proper lenght trains wouldve been better first then build out from there. Looks more of a gimmick to me atm.

Infini

Idbatterim wrote: »

ecould CIE be totally done away with, keep the infrastructure in state ownership, but have private operators provide the service? It seems fairly obvious to me, that CIE staff think the company is run solely for their benefit!

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!

People strike for various reasons and everyone has that right no matter what tou work in if they feel theyre being bullied around but unfortunately too many haters gonna hate are around nowadays. Its sad how irish society has gone downhill nowadays.

LXFlyer

Infini2 wrote: »

Funding agreed isnt the same as having trains there tho. Honestly I dont know why were trying to have a 10 min service right now instead of getting capacity back up first. Its one thing if we had loads of packed 8 carrige trains but atm the problem really is the lack of large trains and too many trains heading to howth instead of balancing it out with malahide. A balanced service that eliminates the inefficiencies and proper lenght trains wouldve been better first then build out from there. Looks more of a gimmick to me atm.

The trains are there. They just haven't been in daily use due to the funding shortfall and cost reductions.

The agreed funding allows for more DART sets to be in sets daily use, which as I understand it, will mean peak trains being the right size.

This timetable does deliver a balanced service between the two northern branches so I'm not sure where you're coming from on that.

This really is a smokescreen from the unions.

Idbatterim

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!

People strike for various reasons and everyone has that right no matter what tou work in if they feel theyre being bullied around but unfortunately too many haters gonna hate are around nowadays. Its sad how irish society has gone downhill nowadays.

yes for the first time in a decade! I take the luas frequently enough and it cant be compared to the sham that is CIE. I dont have an issue with reasonable pay claims etc after a certain period. many CIE staff and the unions have been taking the piss for years, ably assisted by Bertie "money no object" ahern...

Infini

hmmm wrote: »

We need to ban strikes in monopoly public services. Balloting for a strike every time there is even the suggestion of a work practice change is unacceptable in a modern workplace.

Yeeeah they tried that with the guards for years until the EU basically said nope to that. They cant ban the guards from striking so trying to ban anyone else is NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Four car dangerously overcrowded trains already operate during evening peak .

Nice red herring though

Not if it turns out that nearly every train ends up being a 4 carriage train. As for the point about more trains being brought back into service while thats the plan thats not a 100% certainty right now if they havent all been done.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Says it all that staff have to approve timetables for what is supposed to be a public service.

Staff aren't the ones approving timetables rather its making staff come in earlier and/or outside their current agreed hours and rosters that's the issue. This might've not been an issue if it weren't for the fact that managements total treatment of the drivers over the last number of years has undermined any credibility and ability to lead they might have had.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Who would want to be in Irish rail management when you are insubordinated every day by staff

Its not a case of all drivers being lazy or bothered etc (theres some of them types in EVERY JOB not just the rail), most are reasonable but if you think you can bully your way around like your in secondary school which is the general attitude of management then you got another thing coming. These things dont happen simply because it doesn't suit people but because people who shouldnt be there in management there are there, cant handle the job and end up alienating their of those under them. First rule of being in charge: dont be a dick, act the dick and your credibility and leadership go down the toilet very quickly as those under you are alienated and refuse to deal with you.

GM228

Infini2 wrote: »

Yeeeah they tried that with the guards for years until the EU basically said nope to that. They cant ban the guards from striking so trying to ban anyone else is NEVER GONNA HAPPEN.

Sorry for going off topic, but I tought despite an EU ruling that the government defeated the bill allowing the Gardaí to strike?

Infini

GM228 wrote: »

Sorry for going off topic, but I tought despite an EU ruling that the government defeated the bill allowing the Gardaí to strike?

Bill might've gotten defeated but they still have won the right to strike from a higher level in the EU. Government will drag it as long as they can tho like anything else until they're forced to change it. Ultimately guards havent had any issues to strike so far but expect that to change at some point once its challenged.

Grandeeod

Infini2 wrote: »

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!

Look closer and you'll see that the luas strike can be linked to the payscale in CIE.

jimmycrackcorm

Infini2 wrote:

Staff aren't the ones approving timetables rather its making staff come in earlier and/or outside their current agreed hours and rosters that's the issue. This might've not been an issue if it weren't for the fact that managements total treatment of the drivers over the last number of years has undermined any credibility and ability to lead they might have had.

Its the staff who are objecting to providing a better customer service.

Grandeeod

Infini2 wrote: »

Staff aren't the ones approving timetables rather its making staff come in earlier and/or outside their current agreed hours and rosters that's the issue. This might've not been an issue if it weren't for the fact that managements total treatment of the drivers over the last number of years has undermined any credibility and ability to lead they might have had.

I know this sounds like a mantra at this stage, but the CIE group as a whole is like an infected wound. While it has its supporters/defenders, they tend to only side with the workers and blame management and the Government on almost everything else. The CIE issue and it is an issue, can be solved by doing the following at the very least.

Slash management positions and salaries.

Continue to impliment current plans with staff.

Rebrand (not respray). Rid PT in Ireland of the name, "CIE".

Lead from the top down.

A complete culture change.

Its not easy, but unless you start it, nothing will change.

Wanderer78

mother of divine god, will irish people please stand up and start supporting each other. if we dont stand up now and do this, we will all be on minimum wage or lower, forever!

Grandeeod

Wanderer78 wrote: »

mother of divine god, will irish people please stand up and start supporting each other. if we dont stand up now and do this, we will all be on minimum wage or lower, forever!

No we won't. We aren't talking about minimum wage anyway.

Wanderer78

Grandeeod wrote: »

No we won't. We aren't talking about minimum wage anyway.

i really wish people would do some research into why the whole recession happened in the first place. this is getting very serious. please support your fellow hard working country folk.

Grandeeod

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i really wish people would do some research into why the whole recession happened in the first place. this is getting very serious. please support your fellow hard working country folk.

I'll skip. You sound like a troll. Come back to me with some kind of relevence to the topic.

Wanderer78

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'll skip. You sound like a troll. Come back to me with some kind of relevence to the topic.

check out the work of ellen brown, michael hudson, bill black, ha-joon chang etc. this is all a part of a very complex problem. i ll leave it at that as i will derail the thread

devnull

Wanderer78 wrote: »

check out the work of ellen brown, michael hudson, bill black, ha-joon chang etc. this is all a part of a very complex problem. i ll leave it at that as i will derail the thread

I took a look at the link in your sig, The first thing I saw was Russia Today (aka Putin TV) and lots of propaganda about how we should follow the Russians' leads. If you really believe that kind of stuff and Putin is going to be the savoir of everyone you really are deluded. Next thing you'll be telling me is North Korea is a country we should be aspiring to be? As someone who knows people who have lived through real communism rather than reading it in books, I can tell you that it is not the box of chocolates the hard left like to paint it as.

Nobody mentioned minimum wage, just because someone who is on a good wage doesn't get a raise doesn't mean they are gonna get knocked down all the way, it's the typical red herring people come out on this board with but they are never able to actually show where that happened.

Wanderer78

devnull wrote: »

I took a look at the link in your sig, The first thing I saw was Russia Today (aka Putin TV) and lots of propaganda about how we should follow the Russians' leads. If you really believe that kind of stuff and Putin is going to be the savoir of everyone you really are deluded.

aww i give up i really do! please look further! nothing to do with putin as such!

devnull

Wanderer78 wrote: »

aww i give up i really do! please look further! nothing to do with putin as such!

Russia Today is basically Putin Propaganda TV and the fact that said people seem to appear on there on a regular basis does their credibility no favors.

Wanderer78

devnull wrote: »

Russia Today is basically Putin Propaganda TV and the fact that said people seem to appear on there on a regular basis does their credibility no favors.

move on from rt and check out the other stuff!

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

Funding was agreed with the NTA to fund more sets back into service to allow for the increased service levels - I think the unions are trying to muddy the waters by suggesting that shorter trains will happen.

To be honest this sounds like them trying to link their other dispute to something totally unrelated.

And they are only balloting for strike action - your headline is a tad misleading at this stage.

They will it is almost inevitable that all services will be 2/4 coaches off peak and possibly a few 6 coaches at peak hours.

The proposed frequency is heavily overestimated in comparison to actual demand and I would give it 6 months before capacity cut and possibly freq cuts in the evenings. While I agree with the comment about the unions, 8 coach units will become history unless thousands more flock to DART because of the timetable change which is unlikely.

dublindiehard wrote: »

Four car dangerously overcrowded trains already operate during evening peak .

Nice red herring though

Says it all that staff have to approve timetables for what is supposed to be a public service.

Who would want to be in Irish rail management when you are insubordinated every day by staff

An extra 8 coaches at peak hours will help.
______

There is only a certain amount of time the NTA will plug the black hole and IE cannot expect commuter/intercity customers to make up the short fall as it was us who bared the brunt of cuts in recent years until it clicked that DART needed to have significant cuts to bring it into line with demand.

LXFlyer

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

They will it is almost inevitable that all services will be 2/4 coaches off peak and possibly a few 6 coaches at peak hours.

The proposed frequency is heavily overestimated in comparison to actual demand and I would give it 6 months before capacity cut and possibly freq cuts in the evenings. While I agree with the comment about the unions, 8 coach units will become history unless thousands more flock to DART because of the timetable change which is unlikely.



An extra 8 coaches at peak hours will help.
______

There is only a certain amount of time the NTA will plug the black hole and IE cannot expect commuter/intercity customers to make up the short fall as it was us who bared the brunt of cuts in recent years until it clicked that DART needed to have significant cuts to bring it into line with demand.

The unions are not talking about off-peak - they're talking about peak times. Hence my comment.

Off peak capacity would be fine with 4-car sets or 2-car sets at certain times.

It's the peak time where capacity is relevant, and with extra sets being pressed into service I don't see the issue. There will be enough 8 car and 6 car sets to cover it.

As for what will happen, I would suggest it might be better to wait and see rather than taking a Daily Mail style approach of doom and gloom and predicting failure.

You are really putting the cart before the horse.

Jamie2k9

lxflyer wrote: »

The unions are not talking about off-peak - they're talking about peak times. Hence my comment.

Off peak capacity would be fine with 4-car sets or 2-car sets at certain times.

It's the peak time where capacity is relevant, and with extra sets being pressed into service I don't see the issue. There will be enough 8 car and 6 car sets to cover it.

As for what will happen, I would suggest it might be better to wait and see rather than taking a Daily Mail style approach of doom and gloom and predicting failure.

You are really putting the cart before the horse.

I don't see 8 coaches staying at peak hours unless there is going to be a dramatic increase possibly 3 6 coach and 3 4 coach per hour.

We know this vote has nothing to do with capacity as it would be illegal strike.

I am been realistic as we have said Luas runs at 15-20 minutes late at night and some trans could carry as low as 10-15 people in the city center, how a high freq DART will be sustainable is management and the NTA living in fairy land.

XPS_Zero

Idbatterim wrote: »

election coming up typical, thank god FF arent in power, their only question would be "how much to keep them quiet" endless money for pay rises etc, virtually nothing to invest in the infrastructure, carriages etc, typical of here!

Don't be naieve, bribing unions to avoid hassle is not a FF thing, it's a politician thing, esp an IRISH politician thing, we dont' want confrontation. Mark my words, history runs in cycles, FG will begin making all the exact same fiscal errors FF did, they are already promising tax cuts mixed with spending hikes, even FF never did that when we had a deficit.

We've also seen these guys record on infrastructure, the embarrassing flip flop going from nothing to airport Luas to metro in 3 days.

Infini2 wrote: »

Yes lets do away with the state railway etc and make it private ownership like the luas....... oh wait theyre going on strike too!
.

The Luas IS NOTprivately owned, the state owns it, it's privately OPERATED day to day by a tendered contractor. A very important distinction

As for the unions muddying the waters, they are using the same tired, jaded excuse for this they use for everything (imagine thick north dublin accent) "health n safety we can't do dah...health n safety".

Same old sh1te, from unions and the Irish state, just a new cycle.

Captain Chaos

lxflyer wrote: »

The unions are not talking about off-peak - they're talking about peak times. Hence my comment.

Off peak capacity would be fine with 4-car sets or 2-car sets at certain times.

It's the peak time where capacity is relevant, and with extra sets being pressed into service I don't see the issue. There will be enough 8 car and 6 car sets to cover it.
.

2-4 cars sets are not good enough off peak with 20min gaps. I have gotten DARTs at lunch time on Sundays that were 4 cars and they were wedged to the doors with bikes and buggies. You can't cut capacity and frequency.

As it is there are not enough sets to run 6-8 car trains every 10 mins, it's impossible with the current feet.

The DART I usually get in the evenings from Connolly to Malahide at 17:00 was always a 4 car 8500 set up till the new year, all this week it has been increased to an 8 car train and the difference is amazing, stress free commuting finally.

Infini

Grandeeod wrote: »

Look closer and you'll see that the luas strike can be linked to the payscale in CIE.

Yes because they do a similar job and get crappier wages for it. Even if 50% is too much in one go you cant expect em to continue on the wages they are with the cost of living going up.

XPS_Zero wrote: »

The Luas IS NOTprivately owned, the state owns it, it's privately OPERATED day to day by a tendered contractor. A very important distinction

As for the unions muddying the waters, they are using the same tired, jaded excuse for this they use for everything (imagine thick north dublin accent) "health n safety we can't do dah...health n safety".

Same old sh1te, from unions and the Irish state, just a new cycle.

Yeah its not so much shite when there's truth to the whole thing. Theres also another issue: lack of actual drivers. The new drivers they trained up ended up replacing drivers out on sickness who may never be back. There might not be enough drivers to actually run the service at this time.

devnull

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The DART I usually get in the evenings from Connolly to Malahide at 17:00 was always a 4 car 8500 set up till the new year, all this week it has been increased to an 8 car train and the difference is amazing, stress free commuting finally.

I was really annoyed when I saw they lengthened the 16:54 from Connolly, that train was busy with quite a few standing always, but was not in the same league as the 17:54 and 18:42 that regularly have large number of passengers unable to board at Connolly and Clontarf.

In my whole time commuting in Dublin, I have never seen trains busier than those two Malahide DART, I have seen people pass out on them several occasions, it's like the trains you see in China etc where people are being pushed and squashed on.

Infini

devnull wrote: »

In my whole time commuting in Dublin, I have never seen trains busier than those two Malahide DART, I have seen people pass out on them several occasions, it's like the trains you see in China etc where people are being pushed and squashed on.

Yeah I'd agree with you there on that. There should be NO 4 carrige trains at all from 4pm to 7pm and the same fron 7am to 10am. Reason being is all it takes is one train failing to block up the whole thing and once that happens and you got a 4 carrige train involved we end up with crush scenarios. Look at what happened with the enterprise last month. Trains blocked all the way to dun laiorie from harmonstown. Even with less dramatic scenarios if a trains 10min late or delayed abit for whatever reason during the rush hour and its a 4 carrige people are crushed into the thing before even passing through the city centre. Its ridiculous.

The whole 10 minute thing IMO is a poorly thought out idea. The demand outside the rush just isnt there most nights. Quality over quantity it would be much better to simply just remove short darts from the rush hour periods entirely and focus on eliminating the deficiencies like long gaps between trains at certain times and possibly turning the howth branch into a shuttle service out of rush hour like the m3 to clonsilla service and running all darts to Malahide instead every 15min. Build up gradually and match service to the demand.

Grandeeod

Infini2 wrote: »

Yes because they do a similar job and get crappier wages for it. Even if 50% is too much in one go you cant expect em to continue on the wages they are with the cost of living going up.

The job is similar alright, but the wages are far from "crappier". Its a very good wage for what they do. They happily took the job at that wage rate and they are just trying to grab the coat tails of IE loco drivers who have over 60 years of culture behind them.

Luas drivers are well paid for what they do and please don't give me any guff about being responsible for the lives of many people. A Deli worker in any shop, supermarket or garage is working for the minimum wage and has the responsibility for the well being of customers served. Haccp etc etc.

markpb

Infini2 wrote: »

Quality over quantity.

From a passengers point of view, quantity is a quality of its own. You keep saying that demand isn't there but, quite obviously, NTA are trying to stimulate demand by providing a better service.

If drivers have a problem with a change in working conditions or potentially unworkable rosters, that's fair enough. But this pretence that they care so much about passengers and have more insight into what passengers want that they're willing to go on strike is laughable.

hmmm

markpb wrote: »

If drivers have a problem with a change in working conditions or potentially unworkable rosters, that's fair enough. But this pretence that they care so much about passengers and have more insight into what passengers want that they're willing to go on strike is laughable.

Drivers job is to drive the trains. Management & NTA's job is to decide how many and how often. Drivers should stick to doing their job - instead they think they run the place (and in many ways they do).

Grandeeod

hmmm wrote: »

Drivers job is to drive the trains. Management & NTA's job is to decide how many and how often. Drivers should stick to doing their job - instead they think they run the place (and in many ways they do).

I think you are on the same page as markpb.

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

I was really annoyed when I saw they lengthened the 16:54 from Connolly, that train was busy with quite a few standing always, but was not in the same league as the 17:54 and 18:42 that regularly have large number of passengers unable to board at Connolly and Clontarf.

In my whole time commuting in Dublin, I have never seen trains busier than those two Malahide DART, I have seen people pass out on them several occasions, it's like the trains you see in China etc where people are being pushed and squashed on.

I regularly get that 16:49 from Pearse bound to Malahide. It's been a 6 car train for the last few years. Plenty of seats free from connolly onwards. Has it been lengthened to 8 cars now?

I go to Kilbarrack so can get any dart. The busiest journey I have been on was the 18:04 from pearse to howth as a 4 carriage train. This is 23 minutes after the previous Howth train. 20 minute gaps with 4 car trains would be a disaster for both Howth and Malahide.

devnull

Decuc500 wrote: »

I regularly get that 16:49 from Pearse bound to Malahide. It's been a 6 car train for the last few years. Plenty of seats free from connolly onwards. Has it been lengthened to 8 cars now?

Yes, it was the one train to Malahide that wasn't heavily overcrowded and they lengthened that and didn't bother doing anything with the ones that actually left people behind. In fairness it probably needed the six cars, but certainly didn't need eight.

I go to Kilbarrack so can get any dart. The busiest journey I have been on was the 18:04 from pearse to howth as a 4 carriage train.

Having been on that train, I can tell you that the reason for it being busy is not simply because of the 23 minute gape in Howth Services since it is practically empty after Howth Junction. If you live in Kilbarrack I wouldn't complain too much, you have it far better than those of us on the Malahide branch.

This is 23 minutes after the previous Howth train. 20 minute gaps with 4 car trains would be a disaster for both Howth and Malahide.

Not really, the majority of the Howth services barely have enough passengers to fill a single carriage after Howth Junction, whereas the Malahide ones are completely full at the same point, which suggests the balance is completely out of sync with actual demand.

Some of the Howth trains might be busy,. but that doesn't mean the capacity to Howth is needed at the level it is. They need to look at where the passengers are traveling from or to and the loadings after the split, rather than just say at Connolly Howth Train has x passengers and Malahide train has Y passengers.

Incidentally 20 minute frequency to Malahide would be a huge improvement than what there is now, there are gaps of between 30-45 minutes between services in evening peak on the Malahide branch now.

From Clontarf for example there are 5 Howth trains between 5.30 and 6.30 which are all carrying huge amounts of thin air after Howth Junction, with just two Malahides between 5.30 and 7.00pm, which are both 4 cars and so full all the way to Clongriffin that people are sometimes are unable to board.

LXFlyer

Just to make the point that you do need to look at what trains those sets operate throughout the roster - schools traffic can require longer trains on specific trains in the afternoon heading south - it's not just the services heading north through Connolly that are busy!

Decuc500

devnull wrote: »

Having been on that train, I can tell you that the reason for it being busy is not simply because of the 23 minute gape in Howth Services since it is practically empty after Howth Junction. If you live in Kilbarrack I wouldn't complain too much, you have it far better than those of us on the Malahide

Incidentally 20 minute frequency to Malahide would be a huge improvement than what there is now, there are gaps of between 30-45 minutes between services in evening peak on the Malahide branch now.

From Clontarf for example there are 5 Howth trains between 5.30 and 6.30 which are all carrying huge amounts of thin air after Howth Junction, with just two Malahides between 5.30 and 7.00pm, which are both 4 cars and so full all the way to Clongriffin that people are sometimes are unable to board.

If you think the howth branch isn't so busy try getting a dart at kilbarrack from howth in morning rush hour. They're basically all packed.

Also do malahide passengers use the commuter trains? I've often got one of these to howth junction in rush hour. Plenty of room to stand for a short journey and even more room after howth junction. You have to include these when discussing trains to Malahide.

I'm not trying to create some kind of howth/malahide competition for extra trains. I can see that for passengers before the howth junction split all trains are busy.

LXFlyer

The current timetable delivers an approximate 15 minutes service to stations on the line to Malahide in the evening peak from Connolly by a combination of commuter and DART services.

The problem is that anyone at one of the intermediate stations (such as Clontarf Road) cannot avail of the commuter trains as they run non-stop between Connolly and Howth Junction.

Infini

hmmm wrote: »

Drivers job is to drive the trains. Management & NTA's job is to decide how many and how often. Drivers should stick to doing their job - instead they think they run the place (and in many ways they do).

Drivers dont run the place but that doesnt mean they dont have any say when it comes to things that affect them from management would try to throw on them without agreement either. Lets also be clear here whats happening isnt a result of greed or any of the stuff people THINK is happening but a result of a management under a CEO that has alienated his workforce entirely, trying to force his ideas through without agreement or even listening to his drivers concerns and they basically have had enough and arent tolerating it. Lets be honest here depite all the problems it wasnt until Franks came along with his hamfisted approach that strikes and disputes began breaking out. This is a result of drivers being alienated and walked over and as a result this is potentially the 3rd industrial dispute to break out in the rail in the space of 2 years. Even the other 2 bus companies havent had it this bad so that doesnt speak well of his approach.

As for the 10min service this isnt the NTAs idea it was Franks as far as I'm aware. End of the day if management have undermined the confidence and trust of the staff in any company this is the end result.

carpejugulum

The sooner they are replaced by computers the better.
Hopefully the new metro will use driverless trains only.

markpb

Infini2 wrote: »

As for the 10min service this isnt the NTAs idea it was Franks as far as I'm aware. End of the day if management have undermined the confidence and trust of the staff in any company this is the end result.

I commend your honesty (and sympathise with your situation). It works be great if your union could come out and say that instead of pretending these strikes are about something they're not.

I presume this means every change proposed by anyone will be met with strike threats on an effort to throw Frank under the bus? I'm asking as a prospective customer. If this is the way things are, I'll stick to driving.

jimmycrackcorm

Infini2 wrote:

As for the 10min service this isnt the NTAs idea it was Franks as far as I'm aware. End of the day if management have undermined the confidence and trust of the staff in any company this is the end result.

The ten minute service is for the benefit of customers. Are the drivers in the job to suit themselves or their customers?