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Why do you hate Irish?

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Comments

  • #752
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Are you for real? Why not just teach them the language of their ancestors?
    Why teach them a dead people's language?
    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Is there anything else of our ancestry and culture you'd like to do away with? St. Patricks day maybe?
    You mean our annual celebration of the civilisation or Ireland by an English missionary?


  • #753
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Why teach them a dead people's language?

    Last I checked, I'm alive and well.


  • #754
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Irish can never be 'fun' or 'attractive', it's a language of misery and oppression. If you make it 'fun' and 'attractive' it wouldn't be Irish any more.

    :D What would it be?


  • #755
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Why teach them a dead people's language?

    Why does everybody call Irish a dead language? Have they not educated themselves on the numbers who speak it daily and weekly outside of the education system?


  • #756
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Why teach them a dead people's language?

    You mean our annual celebration of the civilisation or Ireland by an English missionary?

    A dead people's language? Who are these dead people?

    Oh so now you want to drop St. Patricks Day.

    Anything else? Fionn McComhaill maybe? Please tell us the aspects of Irish history and culture you'd like to see thrown away? Some of them? All of them?

    What about the 1916 Rising? Should we forget that too.

    I can kind of see where this is going with you.


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  • #757
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    Why does everybody call Irish a dead language? Have they not educated themselves on the numbers who speak it daily and weekly outside of the education system?
    Beacuse it's spoken natively as a working langauge by a relatively tiny number of people and is incapable of independently sustaining its own culture, media or newspapers. It's not a living language in the way English, Spanish, Russian are. These are languages in which people can live their lives within their own culture and without speaking any other language.


  • #758
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Oh so now you want to drop St. Patricks Day.
    And where exactly did I say that?

    You do know that St Patrick was English: right?

    I'll ignore the other straw men.


  • #759
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Beacuse it's spoken natively as a working langauge by a relatively tiny number of people and is incapable of independently sustaining its own culture, media or newspapers. It's not a living language in the way English, Spanish, Russian are. These are languages in which people can live their lives within their own culture and without speaking any other language.

    So, you consider Welsh, Dutch ect languages spoken by dead people too?


  • #760
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    And where exactly did I say that?

    You do know that St Patrick was English: right?

    I'll ignore the other straw men.

    He was Welsh actually, some accounts claim him to have been French.


  • #761
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    Beacuse it's spoken natively as a working langauge by a relatively tiny number of people and is incapable of independently sustaining its own culture, media or newspapers. It's not a living language in the way English, Spanish, Russian are. These are languages in which people can live their lives within their own culture and without speaking any other language.

    Assuming you're right and the language is dying, is that not all the more reason to encourage its development and use. The Sapir-Wharf hypothesis (I studied this stuff in college) suggests that it's impossible to translate one language completely into another. That means that if Irish dies, we do lose a major part of our culture, history, our collective soul.

    You might find this article interesting: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140606-why-we-must-save-dying-languages

    From it: "What’s more, languages are conduits of human heritage. Writing is a relatively recent development in our history (written systems currently exist for only about one-third of the world’s languages), so language itself is often the only way to convey a community’s songs, stories and poems. The Iliad was an oral story before it was written, as was The Odyssey. “How many other traditions are out there in the world that we’ll never know about because no-one recorded them before the language disappeared?” Austin says."


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  • #762
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Are you for real? Why not just teach them the language of their ancestors?

    Is there anything else of our ancestry and culture you'd like to do away with? St. Patricks day maybe?
    Druidic? Turkish?


  • #763
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    Assuming you're right and the language is dying, is that not all the more reason to encourage its development and use. The Sapir-Wharf hypothesis (I studied this stuff in college) suggests that it's impossible to translate one language completely into another. That means that if Irish dies, we do lose a major part of our culture, history, our collective soul.

    You might find this article interesting: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140606-why-we-must-save-dying-languages

    From it: "What’s more, languages are conduits of human heritage. Writing is a relatively recent development in our history (written systems currently exist for only about one-third of the world’s languages), so language itself is often the only way to convey a community’s songs, stories and poems. The Iliad was an oral story before it was written, as was The Odyssey. “How many other traditions are out there in the world that we’ll never know about because no-one recorded them before the language disappeared?” Austin says."
    We won't have lost anything. We still have Latin and ancient Greek. Some people speak them but no one seriously suggests Latin should be mandatory from primary school onwards, that's a uniquely Irish phenomenon.


  • #764
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    thattequilagirl wrote: »
    our collective soul.
    LOL. Are potato famines and sending girls off to slavery if they get pregnant also part of our collective soul? Shouldn't we keep these vital parts of our culture alive?


  • #765
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    deepesthole wrote: »
    LOL. Are potato famines and sending girls off to slavery if they get pregnant also part of our collective soul? Shouldn't we keep these vital parts of our culture alive?

    So you're laughing at the 2 million people who died during An Gorta Mór?


  • #766
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    He was Welsh actually, some accounts claim him to have been French.
    He may also have come from Cumbria. No doubt, claiming he was Welsh avoids the embarrassment of admiiting he was an Englishman.

    Odd, that we celebrate the beginning of the end of aboriginal Irish culture. You, know the culture of our ancestors, the one where Irish originated?


  • #767
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    So you're laughing at the 2 million people who died during An Gorta Mór?

    Its hard to take anything he says seriously at this stage. He certainly seems to have a pathological hatred of Irish. I can only put it down to having a bad teacher as often happens. Clearly he doesn't think Irish is "sexy" enough for him. I have two words to say to that: "Sharon ni Bheolain".


  • #768
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    deepesthole wrote: »
    LOL. Are potato famines and sending girls off to slavery if they get pregnant also part of our collective soul? Shouldn't we keep these vital parts of our culture alive?

    Wow, by trying to come up with extreme examples and call them "culture" you damage your own credibility here imho. Culture is often linked to the answer to the question "What do we take pride in?"

    1. The famine was a natural disaster combined with extreme economic inequality to give a perfect storm - history yes, but not part of our culture properly defined.

    2. The shameful treatment of pregnant women is part of our history but was not exclusive to Ireland (E.g. http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/1989-0/haller.htm) and is not part of our culture properly defined.


  • #769
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    So you're laughing at the 2 million people who died during An Gorta Mór?
    I'm laughing at that lame strawman. Has all that Irish pushed the English out of your head?
    Just answer the question: should we have more famine and Catholic church enforced misery here as it's part of our "collective soul"?


  • #770
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Shep_Dog wrote: »
    He may also have come from Cumbria. No doubt, claiming he was Welsh avoids the embarrassment of admiiting he was an Englishman.

    Odd, that we celebrate the beginning of the end of aboriginal Irish culture. You, know the culture of our ancestors, the one where Irish originated?

    He wasnt English but if he was it makes no difference really. We aren't all prejudiced ;)


  • #771
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Its hard to take anything he says seriously at this stage. He certainly seems to have a pathological hatred of Irish. I can only put it down to having a bad teacher as often happens. Clearly he doesn't think Irish is "sexy" enough for him. I have two words to say to that: "Sharon ni Bheolain".
    You had trouble with that short piece of plain English also? Or are you just refusing to answer?
    Best fall back to the "badly taught Irish" old faithful and see how that works out, eh? Or maybe an "Irish hater" because I don't want it to be compulsory? Yeah, go on, it's next on your list, isn't it?


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  • #772
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    deepesthole wrote: »
    I'm laughing at that lame strawman. Has all that Irish pushed the English out of your head?
    Just answer the question: should we have more famine and Catholic church enforced misery here as it's part of our "collective soul"?

    Collective soul was used with regards culture. Famines have nothing to do with culture, and Catholics weren't only in Ireland.


  • #773
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Wow, by trying to come up with extreme examples and call them "culture" you damage your own credibility here imho. Culture is often linked to the answer to the question "What do we take pride in?"
    Well that sounds suspiciously like a definition you just made up on the spot.
    Any reference for it?


  • #774
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    I'm laughing at that lame strawman. Has all that Irish pushed the English out of your head?
    Just answer the question: should we have more famine and Catholic church enforced misery here as it's part of our "collective soul"?

    Irish equals famine. Ah right gotcha.

    You're not the brightest are you? :)

    And linking the teaching of irish to the church? Again, bizarre.


  • #775
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    Collective soul was used with regards culture. Famines have nothing to do with culture, and Catholics weren't only in Ireland.
    Are you going to pretend the famine had no effect on Irish cutlure? Or Catholicism?
    Laughable. Not even worth discussing.


  • #776
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Irish equals famine. Ah right gotcha.

    You're not the brightest are you? :)
    Oh, so now you've forgotten your own argument, that Irish is part of "our" culture? But so are loads of crap things so why don't we re-enact all of those too eh?
    Any other lame strawmen or deflections there?


  • #777
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    Are you going to pretend the famine had no effect on Irish cutlure? Or Catholicism?
    Laughable. Not even worth discussing.

    And you accuse others of strawman arguments?


  • #778
    Caoimhgh1n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,499 ✭✭✭✭Caoimhgh1n


    deepesthole wrote: »
    Oh, so now you've forgotten your own argument, that Irish is part of "our" culture? But so are loads of crap things so why don't we re-enact all of those too eh?
    Any other lame strawmen or deflections there?

    Please define "strawmen".


  • #779
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    You're not the brightest are you? :)
    You're not the adhering to posting guidelines-est either yourself.


  • #780
    deepesthole
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 123 ✭✭deepesthole


    Caoimhgh1n wrote: »
    Please define "strawmen".
    It's the plural of strawman.
    Do you need more help? Have Google?


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  • #781
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    deepesthole wrote: »
    Oh, so now you've forgotten your own argument, that Irish is part of "our" culture? But so are loads of crap things so why don't we re-enact all of those too eh?
    Any other lame strawmen or deflections there?

    So we shouldn't teach about the Irish famine? Not sexy enough for you either I guess?


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