Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

1…1718202223…77

Comments

  • #572
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,269 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    Sunflower 27 wrote: »
    I get that. I just can't understand why if you think he is guilty a retrial is necessary, especially if it may free him.

    If you believe he is guilty, he got what be deserved.

    Due process....everybody deserves a fair trial.


  • #573
    Drexel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭Drexel


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Watching the doc I was sure he was coerced into a confession.

    After watching all his interviews in full I am sure he was not coerced into a confession.

    I believe he was depressed after what he did, did lose wight because of that, did confess to his cousin.

    He confessed because he couldn't hold in the guilt, watch all the videos for yourself.

    Anyone believe Brendan read the book Kiss the Girls or any book like that, I don't.

    But I do believe he deserves a retrial though.

    What was in the full confession that made you change your mind?


  • #574
    Internet Ham
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Internet Ham


    The one fact that I can't get my head around is the timing. He was more than likely going to win the civil case in my opinion. Why would you kill someone when you had a massive payday coming and seemingly on a whim? It is illogical. Regardless of Avery's apparently poor cognitive skills, it does not make sense.

    The blood vial being tampered with. The magic key. The nephew and brother-in-law being each others alibi (personally I think they either did it or disliked Avery enough to throw him under the bus). Lot's of things were certainly planted and manipulated externally. Advantage was certainly taken of Avery's celebrity and stupidity. Someone capitalized and it really was a stroke of diabolical...genius.

    It is tough to know for sure. What I wouldn't give to put all the players in a big brother style arrangement and see what happens. I wonder would that get the truth out of this sad tale.

    Those are my musings.

    Oh reporters in the US are scum. That was the other thing I took away from it. Tragedy parasites, the lot of them.


  • #575
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Internet Ham wrote: »
    The one fact that I can't get my head around is the timing. He was more than likely going to win the civil case in my opinion. Why would you kill someone when you had a massive payday coming and seemingly on a whim? It is illogical. Regardless of Avery's apparently poor cognitive skills, it does not make sense.

    Hes inbred with a very low IQ . The entire Avery clan are the absolute definition of "trash". Logic doesn't come into it here.

    One thing that struck me throughout was how poorly he defended himself. In interviews, interrogations etc. Basically "no I didn't do it....probably the polic....or her ex.....or someone else" and that seemed to be that.
    Internet Ham wrote: »
    Oh reporters in the US are scum. That was the other thing I took away from it. Tragedy parasites, the lot of them.

    Indeed. If it bleeds it leads.


  • #576
    Joeface
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Joeface


    So up to episode 8

    the verdict
    Its very strange to see him convicted of murder but not guilty of mutilating a corpse , given they had more evidence of the corpse been mutilated than an actual murder been committed


  • Advertisement
  • #577
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Joeface wrote: »
    So up to episode 8

    the verdict
    Its very strange to see him convicted of murder but not guilty of mutilating a corpse , given they had more evidence of the corpse been mutilated than an actual murder been committed

    Episode 9 and 10 spoiler.
    Brendan DOES gets convicted of mutilating a corpse! :confused:

    Also a weird tidbit from Penny Beerntsen - the sexual assault victim.

    'A few months after I met Steve, he left a message for me. So I called him and he was kind of beating around the bush. He was telling me how he didn’t have any money and he couldn’t get a job and he was living on his parent’s property and it wasn’t going well and he wanted to get his own place to live and it would really be nice to have a house,' said Berrntsen.

    'I finally came out and said, “Steve, are you asking me to buy you a house?” And he said yes. I said, “That’s not possible. We probably should not be talking to each other. I will be deposed in your civil suit.”

    'He was cordial, he wasn’t abusive or anything. It was just clear he wanted money from me.'


  • #578
    madcabbage
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭madcabbage


    The Nal wrote: »
    Episode 9 and 10 spoiler.
    Brendan DOES gets convicted of mutilating a corpse! :confused:

    Still scratching my head at that one! :confused:


  • #579
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    The Nal wrote: »
    Episode 9 and 10 spoiler.
    Brendan DOES gets convicted of mutilating a corpse! :confused:

    Also a weird tidbit from Penny Beerntsen - the sexual assault victim.

    'A few months after I met Steve, he left a message for me. So I called him and he was kind of beating around the bush. He was telling me how he didn’t have any money and he couldn’t get a job and he was living on his parent’s property and it wasn’t going well and he wanted to get his own place to live and it would really be nice to have a house,' said Berrntsen.

    'I finally came out and said, “Steve, are you asking me to buy you a house?” And he said yes. I said, “That’s not possible. We probably should not be talking to each other. I will be deposed in your civil suit.”

    'He was cordial, he wasn’t abusive or anything. It was just clear he wanted money from me.'

    Odd thing for him to do, but I'd be more concerned if he was abusive about it.

    I feel very sorry for this woman. Her testimony convicted Steven for 15 years. I wonder what flack she gets for that or how she forgives herself, if she indeed feels guilty.

    If Steven did murder Teresa it would possibly make her feel better.

    I was surprised at how Steven forgave her. I don't know if I would, having lost 15 years of my life, marriage and kids.


  • #580
    The Raptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭The Raptor


    Turns out two of the jurors had relatives in the police department. They shouldn't have been allowed on the jury.


  • #581
    Hrududu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    Joeface wrote: »
    So up to episode 8

    the verdict
    Its very strange to see him convicted of murder but not guilty of mutilating a corpse , given they had more evidence of the corpse been mutilated than an actual murder been committed
    I think the documentary makers were on a TV show in the past day or so.
    They said a juror had been in touch with them and that they had voted guilty because they feared for their safety. They also said that vote swapping went on. As in people agreed to vote guilty on the murder charge if other people voted not guilty on the mutilation charge.

    This whole thing has just made me think about juries. You assume you'll get a fair jury. But people have their own agendas, or don't care, or assume you're guilty/innocent before hearing any evidence. Putting your life in their hands is scary.


  • Advertisement
  • #582
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Hrududu wrote: »
    I think the documentary makers were on a TV show in the past day or so.
    They said a juror had been in touch with them and that they had voted guilty because they feared for their safety. They also said that vote swapping went on. As in people agreed to vote guilty on the murder charge if other people voted not guilty on the mutilation charge.

    This whole thing has just made me think about juries. You assume you'll get a fair jury. But people have their own agendas, or don't care, or assume you're guilty/innocent before hearing any evidence. Putting your life in their hands is scary.

    Or the makers of the documentary are milking this for all its worth :D


  • #583
    NapoleonInRags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭NapoleonInRags


    The Nal wrote: »
    Hes inbred with a very low IQ . The entire Avery clan are the absolute definition of "trash". Logic doesn't come into it here.

    One thing that struck me throughout was how poorly he defended himself. In interviews, interrogations etc. Basically "no I didn't do it....probably the polic....or her ex.....or someone else" and that seemed to be that.



    Indeed. If it bleeds it leads.


    Wow...quite a statement. I thought his mother and father showed incredible dignity and strength throughout the 10 episodes.

    To label them as 'trash' says a lot more about you to be honest...


  • #584
    PaulieBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭PaulieBoy


    The Raptor wrote: »
    Turns out two of the jurors had relatives in the police department. They shouldn't have been allowed on the jury.

    Unbelievable! A word I used a lot looking at that show. But the defence have some responsibility for letting that happen?


  • #585
    20Cent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭20Cent


    PaulieBoy wrote: »
    Unbelievable! A word I used a lot looking at that show. But the defence have some responsibility for letting that happen?

    Apparently the defence have six "strikes" people they can exclude from the list. So there must have been six worse than the relatives on the list. Dunno if they could have objected.


  • #586
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    Internet Ham wrote: »
    The one fact that I can't get my head around is the timing. He was more than likely going to win the civil case in my opinion. Why would you kill someone when you had a massive payday coming and seemingly on a whim? It is illogical. Regardless of Avery's apparently poor cognitive skills, it does not make sense. .

    This point has been made before and it suprises me.
    How would it be any more logical to kill her in the abscence of an upcoming pay day?.
    You appear to equate the "reward" of killing her being less than the reward of lots of money ,but that is in itself applying a logical process to somebody who might have just killed and raped a girl for fun. It also assumes that the kind of person who wants to kill and rape a girl values money in the same way as you and me and most other people , but that is clearly not the case.


  • #587
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    NapoleonInRags wrote: »
    Wow...quite a statement. I thought his mother and father showed incredible dignity and strength throughout the 10 episodes.

    To label them as 'trash' says a lot more about you to be honest...

    That I know they're trash?

    "Trash" in the American sense by the way. Parents came across as lovely people yeah. But "trash" nonetheless.

    If they were normal suburbanites the documentary would never have been made as he would never have been convicted for the sexual assault.


  • #588
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    20Cent wrote: »
    Apparently the defence have six "strikes" people they can exclude from the list. So there must have been six worse than the relatives on the list. Dunno if they could have objected.

    Those jurors shouldn't have even got to the point of being strikes. It is ridiculous.


  • #589
    jcsoulinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭jcsoulinger


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    This point has been made before and it suprises me.
    How would it be any more logical to kill her in the abscence of an upcoming pay day?.
    You appear to equate the "reward" of killing her being less than the reward of lots of money ,but that is in itself applying a logical process to somebody who might have just killed and raped a girl for fun. It also assumes that the kind of person who wants to kill and rape a girl values money in the same way as you and me and most other people , but that is clearly not the case.

    The point is that logically you would wait till after you receive the huge payment before taking any action that puts it in jeopardy.


  • #590
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    20Cent wrote: »
    Apparently the defence have six "strikes" people they can exclude from the list. So there must have been six worse than the relatives on the list. Dunno if they could have objected.

    Yeah it's weird, is it 6 for each side or 3 for the state and 3 for the defence? The sheriff's dad could possibly have been a replacement either, who knows considering how crooked everything was. Then again Brendan had an outside jury and he got screwed even worse imo, he was ****ed once his uncle got convicted.


  • #591
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    Incredible documentary.

    For sure there has been completely inappropriate behaviour on the part of the police , the documentary shows this and that the criminal justice system has this big flaw which means that people like Stephen Avery will not get a fair trial , this will happen again and again until some sort of change is introduced.
    Due to these things I think the trial should have been at least a mistrial if not an innocent verdict.

    The bit I am struggling with is
    Nearly everybody who knows Stephen Avery personally seems to believe he is guilty ,all his neighbours all the police and some of his own family.
    I think the police convinced of his guilt broke the law to secure a conviction , I wonder if this is a case where the locals know more than we have seen and heard and have acted in an ends justify the means manner .

    I personally do not condone this , our justice system needs to be in a court of law with facts and not the court of public opinion. The process here is so broken even if Stephen Avery is guilty it will convict many innocent people and that is what needs a petition more than a pardon for Stephen Avery.


  • Advertisement
  • #592
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    jcsoulinger wrote: »
    The point is that logically you would wait till after you receive the huge payment before taking any action that puts it in jeopardy.

    I don’t agree that this is logic you can assuage to somebody you think will kill and rape a girl for fun.


  • #593
    marklazarcovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,232 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    Bandana boy wrote:
    The bit I am struggling with is Nearly everybody who knows Stephen Avery personally seems to believe he is guilty ,all his neighbours all the police and some of his own family. I think the police convinced of his guilt broke the law to secure a conviction , I wonder if this is a case where the locals know more than we have seen and heard and have acted in an ends justify the means manner .

    I wonder would it be the case had he not just come out of a 18 year jail term for sexual assault etc,if he were not famous so to speak


  • #594
    runningbuddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭runningbuddy


    The bit I am struggling with is Nearly everybody who knows Stephen Avery personally seems to believe he is guilty

    I wondered this too. I am only 6 episodes in but he seems v.unpopular with his family, with the exception of his mother and father.

    Such a baffling case. Where the bones found elsewhere and planted on Avery land?? If she did die there then it MUST be a member of the Avery family.

    Brendan and Bobby Dassey both give me the creeps to be honest.


  • #595
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    runningbuddy wrote: »
    The bit I am struggling with is Nearly everybody who knows Stephen Avery personally seems to believe he is guilty

    I wondered this too. I am only 6 episodes in but he seems v.unpopular with his family, with the exception of his mother and father.

    Such a baffling case. Where the bones found elsewhere and planted on Avery land?? If she did die there then it MUST be a member of the Avery family.

    Brendan and Bobby Dassey both give me the creeps to be honest.

    There is a cousin that speaks fondly of him. Not sure when she is introduced.

    Scott and bobby not liking him doesn't strike me personally as odd as I think they are responsible for Teresa's death.


  • #596
    The Nal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    runningbuddy wrote: »

    I wondered this too. I am only 6 episodes in but he seems v.unpopular with his family, with the exception of his mother and father.

    The fact that he has sexually... err... interfered with a lot of his family, that this is seen as normal and that they're scared of him may have something to do with it.


  • #597
    runningbuddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭runningbuddy


    The fact that he has sexually... err... interfered with a lot of his family,
    that this is seen as normal and that they're scared of him may have something to
    do with it.

    Is that actually true the Nal?? Jaysis, what a bunch:(
    user_offline.pngreport.gif


  • #598
    jcsoulinger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭jcsoulinger


    Bandana boy wrote: »
    I don’t agree that this is logic you can assuage to somebody you think will kill and rape a girl for fun.

    Of course you can, he's not insane, he supposedly planned the rest of the murder why not the date.
    I assume You agree that it would be more logical to commit the crime after he had received the compensation?.
    It must have been something he considered and went ahead with it anyway if he is really guilty.


  • #599
    wardides
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 768 ✭✭✭wardides


    The Nal wrote: »
    The fact that he has sexually... err... interfered with a lot of his family, that this is seen as normal and that they're scared of him may have something to do with it.


    Has that been proven?

    My thought on that was that Brendon was told to "go home and tell his mother everything we talked about today before we do".

    That was something asked of him constantly by the detectives, and he therefore went home and said this to his mother.

    That's the only source I've ever heard it being mentioned?


  • #600
    Bandana boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,340 ✭✭✭Bandana boy


    jcsoulinger wrote: »
    I assume You agree that it would be more logical to commit the crime after he had received the compensation?.
    .

    I do not agree that there is any logic in killing and raping this girl at any point.
    Once you have believe the person is capable of this crime , logic around delaying so as not to put at risk a pay out is nonsense.
    You and I cannot equate a value on money with a value on commiting this crime , we have no point of reference for this kind of thinking.

    I think it is unlikely that you are capable of this crime and then capable of delaying till a later date to secure a pay out , but I do not know this ,but it is certainly not a valid concern for questioning his guilt.

    Several other factors yes , this No.


  • Advertisement
  • #601
    Dots1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    The DNA question, is DNA transferable by rubbing an object with the clothes of the person?


Advertisement