Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

20Cent · 04-01-2016 11:43PM

Ageyev wrote: »

The car key was the spare key.

Doesn't that make it even weirder that it was found in SA's trailer?

bridgettedon · 04-01-2016 11:52PM

Taboola wrote: »

Could it have dripped out of the gloves?

What i find baffling is that Teresa's DNA wasn't on the car key.

Maybe the keys were cleaned by bleach so Teresa fingerprints weren't on them but they were later touched by Avery.

In relation to the sexual touching of Brendan. This was only mentioned to his mother after questioning by detectives where they kept probing him about Steven touching him inappropriately. They told Brendan to tell his Mom everything they had discussed so in the next phone call with his mom, Brendan mentions that. But this was just information I got through reddit.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 05-01-2016 12:08AM

For me Steven's lawyers Dean & Jerry were the heroes of the documentary - Q+A with one half of that superteam right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9h5C901lGE

fin12 · 05-01-2016 12:31AM

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/heres-the-key-evidence-left-out-of-netflixs-making-a-murderer-34333405.html

Dots1982 · 05-01-2016 12:45AM

Also Starring LeVar Burton wrote: »

For me Steven's lawyers Dean & Jerry were the heroes of the documentary - Q+A with one half of that superteam right here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9h5C901lGE

Main thing I took from that was revelation of who the two members of the jury were.

Padster90s · 05-01-2016 03:01AM

My mind is not well at all after finishing this! Up to episode 4 I was actually convinced Steven Avery was guilty. Now, I'm convinced he's innocent.
No DNA linking him to the crime apart from the small spatter of blood in the RAV 4, no hair, no skin, no sperm or saliva. No DNA in his house at all.
The cop called in Holbach's number plates something like 2 days before the car was found at his yard?
He made no attempts to hide the RAV4 or bones knowing a search party was out for the woman that was last seen by him. The police letting the search party onto his property.
The ex boyfriend "guess" her voicemail/phone records password and deleting some of them. The ex also organising and taking charge of the search party.
The blood vile having a syringe mark in the cork indicating blood from Avery's sample was taken.
The co worker saying Holbach was getting nuisance calls and this was deemed unimportant.
Dassey, there is 100% no DNA linking him to the crime. The way he was questioned as a minor was crazy! How no judge threw that case out is beyond me...

enfant terrible · 05-01-2016 03:44AM

Was this posted already

...When Brendan Dassey returned to his own home, his mother, Barb Janda, who is Steven Avery’s sister, noticed bleached-out splotches on her son’s jeans and asked how that had happened. Dassey told her that he had been helping his uncle clean the floor of his garage. [...] State DNA expert Sherry Culhane testified that no traces of Teresa’s DNA were found on Dassey’s clothing, but she also pointed out that his clothes had extensive bleach stains as a result of the garage cleaning that Dassey and his uncle had performed. Bleach, Culhane said, destroys DNA.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3xys6a/dasseys_jeans_were_stained_from_bleaching_the/

Mightydrumming · 05-01-2016 03:56AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

Was this posted already

...When Brendan Dassey returned to his own home, his mother, Barb Janda, who is Steven Avery’s sister, noticed bleached-out splotches on her son’s jeans and asked how that had happened. Dassey told her that he had been helping his uncle clean the floor of his garage. [...] State DNA expert Sherry Culhane testified that no traces of Teresa’s DNA were found on Dassey’s clothing, but she also pointed out that his clothes had extensive bleach stains as a result of the garage cleaning that Dassey and his uncle had performed. Bleach, Culhane said, destroys DNA.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3xys6a/dasseys_jeans_were_stained_from_bleaching_the/

I haven't seen nor heard of that before and I'll take it with a pinch of salt until proven otherwise.

I'm pretty sure if this was the case, Kratz would have made it known publicly as that would play a big role in the trial/investigation.

It was also mentioned that forensics would of found it near impossible to clean that garage and strip it of all DNA, let alone Steven & Brendan combined.

thelad95 · 05-01-2016 04:11AM

Scott Tadych and Bobby Dassey both had very shady alibis (each other) and I have an odd feeling they might have been involved.

However, my gut tells me it may have been the ex boyfriend, why did he delete her voicemails? It's also likely he was the one who was annoying her with all the calls.

The key was a plant, I have zero doubt in that, and you'd have to feel the car was too. I mean Steven and Brendan were both thick as two short planks but Steven knew how to work the car crusher and regularly had bonfires, so why not just destroy the car? Surely he had enough about him to know destroying the car would be a good idea.

However, Steven was far from an angel and he seems like he may have had a split personality disorder. Also, am I right in saying (although the documentary only touched briefly on it I think) that he sexually abused Brendan?

There were numerous occasions the case should have been thrown out as well, that judge had his mind made up about Steven.

enfant terrible · 05-01-2016 04:13AM

More details about Brendan's abilities from defense closing arguments, day 9:
"On Exhibit 220, this was completed September of 2005. It describes various tests that were given to Brendan.
Recalling sentences as a subtest. Age-equivalent, five years and eight months.
Formulating sentences; nine years, nine months.
Number repetition. Mr. Fallon, during the cross-examination of Brendan, talked to him about how well he did in math. Number repetition forward; age-equivalent, five years, three months. Backwards; six years, three months. His percentile ranks are so low that it's sad."

Rayne Wooney · 05-01-2016 04:55AM

The buildings were like something out of Hoarders with stuff everywhere and dirt he wouldn't have been able to explain away him scrubbing the place down with bleach days after a woman is murdered that he was the last to see.

They searched those buildings well and didn't find a murder scene, if an area had been bleached it would have been a big piece of evidence.

The lack of murder scene is really baffling if you take it Avery or one of the family did it.

8-10 · 05-01-2016 05:13AM

Ageyev wrote: »

The car key was the spare key.

I thought somebody on Reddit confirmed that the key was the master and not the spare? The spare would have had a stump at the end

Where did you see the information that it was the spare?

8-10 · 05-01-2016 05:16AM

The Nal wrote: »

Enjoyed it but its certainly no "The Jinx"!

I agree with this. Excellent documentary which I got recommended as 'better than The Jinx'

Very glad I watched it but its not better for me either

enfant terrible · 05-01-2016 05:31AM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

The buildings were like something out of Hoarders with stuff everywhere and dirt he wouldn't have been able to explain away him scrubbing the place down with bleach days after a woman is murdered that he was the last to see.

They searched those buildings well and didn't find a murder scene, if an area had been bleached it would have been a big piece of evidence.

The lack of murder scene is really baffling if you take it Avery or one of the family did it.

They raped her in the trailer and murdered her in the garage.

Stabbed her once each then Avery shot her, as per Brendan's confession.

You can read his full confession here

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwkqpsq58wio3cm/dassey_okelly_5_12_06.pdf?dl=0

Anachrony · 05-01-2016 06:12AM

enfant terrible wrote: »

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3xys6a/dasseys_jeans_were_stained_from_bleaching_the/

Interesting point, but the rebuttal also seems pretty thorough.

If they did bleach the crime scene, the police would have had to totally botch the investigation not to have figured it out right away. Of course since they were so incompetent at every step, it's entirely possible that this is another thing they messed up.

I don't think the defense or this documentary came close to proving Steven's innocence, but it's not the defense's job to prove innocence. It's the state's job to prove a lack of reasonable doubt, and they completely failed at that. If they'd done their job properly, maybe they could have proven it beyond a reasonable doubt, or maybe they would have investigated the other suspects and found a more plausible explanation for what actually happened.

However shady Steven might be, and despite the fact that he may be guilty of this crime, there's no way that a jury should have been able to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the prosecution's case. It was full of gaping holes in the narrative, inexcusable mistakes, and blatant police misconduct. Maybe there was a strong case that could have been made if everyone hadn't failed at their jobs, but it's too late now, and we'll never properly know what happened.

enfant terrible · 05-01-2016 07:26AM

Anachrony wrote: »

Interesting point, but the rebuttal also seems pretty thorough.

If they did bleach the crime scene, the police would have had to totally botch the investigation not to have figured it out right away. Of course since they were so incompetent at every step, it's entirely possible that this is another thing they messed up.

I don't think the defense or this documentary came close to proving Steven's innocence, but it's not the defense's job to prove innocence. It's the state's job to prove a lack of reasonable doubt, and they completely failed at that. If they'd done their job properly, maybe they could have proven it beyond a reasonable doubt, or maybe they would have investigated the other suspects and found a more plausible explanation for what actually happened.

However shady Steven might be, and despite the fact that he may be guilty of this crime, there's no way that a jury should have been able to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt based on the prosecution's case. It was full of gaping holes in the narrative, inexcusable mistakes, and blatant police misconduct. Maybe there was a strong case that could have been made if everyone hadn't failed at their jobs, but it's too late now, and we'll never properly know what happened.

It's funny when I watched the documentary I felt he was coerced into a confession but when watching the unedited footage, I don't feel he was coerced at all, but was just very guilty.

Interesting he says Avery was thinking of disposing of the body with the car crusher but then decided to burn the body.

He also describes the clothes she was wearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTipx6RfTC0

The Nal · 05-01-2016 10:23AM

So should we all sign the petition and set them free?!

megabantz · 05-01-2016 10:29AM

The Nal wrote: »

So should we all sign the petition and set them free?!

After the shocking trial these lads went through, there are not enough signatures in the world to set these boyos free

Taboola · 05-01-2016 10:37AM

I find it bizarre that people would sign a petition to let people free after watching a very biased* documentary. A retrial yes, but to just let them walk?

*The reason I say biased is because of all the stuff they left out of the documentary i.e. non blood DNA belonging to Steven in Teresa's car.

runningbuddy · 05-01-2016 10:39AM

Slightly off topic...I'm only on episode 4 and loving it...where did ye guys watch the Jinx??

The Nal · 05-01-2016 10:43AM

runningbuddy wrote: »

Slightly off topic...I'm only on episode 4 and loving it...where did ye guys watch the Jinx??

Here you go

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2xz5fs

The other parts are all on there too on the right.

megabantz wrote: »

After the shocking trial these lads went through, there are not enough signatures in the world to set these boyos free

You've confused me. What does that mean?

megabantz · 05-01-2016 10:46AM

The Nal wrote: »

Here you go

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2xz5fs

The other parts are all on there too on the right.

You've confused me. What does that mean?

I meant that if they can't be set free based on the evidence provided during the trial, having the judge prevent retrial after retrial etc then I don't think the petition will ever hold enough weight to set them on the road to a retrial or set them free

megabantz · 05-01-2016 10:48AM

Taboola wrote: »

I find it bizarre that people would sign a petition to let people free after watching a very biased* documentary. A retrial yes, but to just let them walk?

*The reason I say biased is because of all the stuff they left out of the documentary i.e. non blood DNA belonging to Steven in Teresa's car.

This can easily be planted (that shady cop who never signed in when the car was found and was there with the car after it was declared a crimescene - any ordinary cop knows you log entry and exit from a crime scene as part of continuity of evidence so this detective would have known) as they would have had plenty of stephens dna from the first conviction but what strikes me is the opposite where there wasnt a single shred of theresas DNA found anywhere in the trailer, garage and even on her key of her car!

mind is blown with the whole thing and I would love to just know who (wheter its steven or somebody else) killled her

The Nal · 05-01-2016 10:49AM

megabantz wrote: »

I meant that if they can't be set free based on the evidence provided during the trial, having the judge prevent retrial after retrial etc then I don't think the petition will ever hold enough weight to set them on the road to a retrial or set them free

Aha, sorry yes of course. The petition is nonsense.

However that amount of scrutiny on the case may change something? I do find it odd that all the appeals have also been exhausted. All the way up through the courts. I don't think theres a conspiracy going that high up, if there is one at all.

The documentary must have missed a few major things surely?

megabantz · 05-01-2016 10:51AM

The Nal wrote: »

Aha, sorry yes of course. The petition is nonsense.

However that amount of scrutiny on the case may change something? I do find it odd that all the appeals have also been exhausted. All the way up through the courts. I don't think theres a conspiracy going that high up, if there is one at all.

The documentary must have missed a few major things surely?

interesting point alright. again my mind is blown I don't know what to think

Taboola · 05-01-2016 10:58AM

megabantz wrote: »

This can easily be planted (that shady cop who never signed in when the car was found and was there with the car after it was declared a crimescene - any ordinary cop knows you log entry and exit from a crime scene as part of continuity of evidence so this detective would have known) as they would have had plenty of stephens dna from the first conviction but what strikes me is the opposite where there wasnt a single shred of theresas DNA found anywhere in the trailer, garage and even on her key of her car!

mind is blown with the whole thing and I would love to just know who (wheter its steven or somebody else) killled her

You think they carried around viles of Steven Avery's sweat?

Just because her DNA wasn't found in the trailer or garage doesn't mean he didn't kill her. He could have killed her somewhere else. From the documentary point of view it didn't look like there was enough evidence to convict him and he should be given a re-trial but to say he's 100% innocent is a quite a leap.

megabantz · 05-01-2016 11:01AM

Taboola wrote: »

You think they carried around viles of Steven Avery's sweat?

Just because her DNA wasn't found in the trailer or garage doesn't mean he didn't kill her. He could have killed her somewhere else.

the prosecution said he shot her twice in the head out in the garage!

the prosecution in the deasey case said she had been raped and had her throat slit.

how can there not be some trace of dna in either location?

there were so many items in the shed that a forensic expert said that not even they could they possibly remove all traces of dna after a gunshot wound to a head in a confined space yet somehow steven did??

you cant convict somebody because you think they might have killed a person somewhere but you dont know where. you can only convict based on the evidence in court. there simply was no solid concrete evidence steven avery killed theresa - there has to be beyond reasonable doubt to convict

Sunflower 27 · 05-01-2016 11:02AM

Taboola wrote: »

You think they carried around viles of Steven Avery's sweat?

Just because her DNA wasn't found in the trailer or garage doesn't mean he didn't kill her. He could have killed her somewhere else. From the documentary point of view it didn't look like there was enough evidence to convict him and he should be given a re-trial but to say he's 100% innocent is a quite a leap.

If that is the case, was it not up to the defence to prove that? They claimed she was killed in the trailer, but there being no evidence of that is very weak defence is it not?

Taboola · 05-01-2016 11:05AM

megabantz wrote: »

you cant convict somebody because you think they might have killed a person somewhere but you dont know where. you can only convict based on the evidence in court. there simply was no solid concrete evidence steven avery killed theresa - there has to be beyond reasonable doubt to convict

Hence - giving him a re-trial.

Sunflower 27 · 05-01-2016 11:05AM

megabantz wrote: »

the prosecution said he shot her twice in the head out in the garage!

the prosecution in the deasey case said she had been raped and had her throat slit.

how can there not be some trace of dna in either location?

there were so many items in the shed that a forensic expert said that not even they could they possibly remove all traces of dna after a gunshot wound to a head in a confined space yet somehow steven did??

The assumption that bleach would have got rid of all blood is baffling to me. How would avery have been able to spot every speck and even if he did, there are ways of seeing blood that has been cleaned away. Luminol would have lit that garage up as bright as the bonfire.

Making A Murderer [Netflix - Documentary Series]

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