how to solve flood crisis

kneemos · 04-01-2016 03:13PM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

you can laugh and mock all you want.

silicon will help. it cant do any harm

my neighbour was/is threatened by flooding. almost at floor level a few days ago

I siliconed her front door before we put the sand bags there

I know it wont stop it coming up through the floor or through the toilets or soaking through the walls. but it will dramatically reduce the volume coming through the door

They don't believe me when I tell them things.

Oh the fools.

Austria! · 04-01-2016 03:15PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3382245/The-root-flood-crisis-mad-dash-EU-cash-writes-GEORGE-MONBIOT.html

https://geographyas.info/rivers/flood-management/

ScumLord · 04-01-2016 03:29PM

Austria! wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3382245/The-root-flood-crisis-mad-dash-EU-cash-writes-GEORGE-MONBIOT.html

That's hilarious. I would have thought the British navy played a bigger part in the devastation of forests on the British isles. They literally striped the islands bare to build their ships and conquer the world. The EU got to the party far to late to be to blamed for the deforestation in the British isles.

MadsL · 04-01-2016 03:49PM

topmanamillion wrote: »

Do not build on flood plains.
5 years minimum jail sentence for any local authority member that ignores engineering reports.

The simple fact is we can't build defenses along the entire length of the river shannon (360km long)
Where defences can be improved that makes sense both financially and environmentally then do it. But there are some people, through no fault of their own, who are living in unsustainable areas. They will have to be relocated/compensated through state coffers and areas designated as flood plains and the building of further homes/commercial areas on them prevented by law.

syklops wrote: »

Stop building on flood plains would be a start.

Stop bribing the planning authority to let you live anywhere you want. would also help.

Funny how the one organisation who has repeatedly pointed out the problems with planning and development in Ireland that lead to flooding is the one that is most hated.

Oh you silly An Taisce!!

Tiddlypeeps · 04-01-2016 03:50PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Flood defences don't work as plenty of towns in the UK have found out.

Carlow town used to be one of the worst hit for flooding. I don't think it's flood once since they implemented their flooding defence plan a few years ago. They raised the levees and I'm not sure if they did anything else. The farm land around still gets flooded from time to time, but the town itself is grand.

I have no idea if these systems are cost effective, but they most certainly can and do work when done right.

BattleCorp · 04-01-2016 04:05PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Carlow town used to be one of the worst hit for flooding. I don't think it's flood once since they implemented their flooding defence plan a few years ago. They raised the levees and I'm not sure if they did anything else. The farm land around still gets flooded from time to time, but the town itself is grand.

I have no idea if these systems are cost effective, but they most certainly can and do work when done right.

Flood defences work for the areas that they are around but they push the problem further downriver.

Tullow in County Carlow often flooded but the council recently built flood defences and they held up pretty well. Downriver didn't fare so well, ask the people of Enniscorthy, or Venniscorthy as it is known now.

Austria! · 04-01-2016 04:13PM

ScumLord wrote: »

That's hilarious. I would have thought the British navy played a bigger part in the devastation of forests on the British isles. They literally striped the islands bare to build their ships and conquer the world. The EU got to the party far to late to be to blamed for the deforestation in the British isles.

Fine, blame them for the lack of reforestation then. After you splitting hairs or do you think the article is wrong about how to stop floods?

Spanish Eyes · 04-01-2016 04:14PM

Aggregating small fields into massive agricultural holdings, burying ditches and run off, chopping down trees to consolidate fields. There is a lot that can be done on the agricultural front, but the policy now seems to be the bigger the field the better. It is not helping matters I would guess.

Anyway, did anyone see the pics from Mallow? the town field was inundated, but it was meant to be as it is a proper flood plain, and the houses were spared. That is good thinking there.

ScumLord · 04-01-2016 04:23PM

Austria! wrote: »

Fine, blame them for the lack of reforestation then. After you splitting hairs or do you think the article is wrong about how to stop floods?

It's the fact they lay the blame at the feet of the EU, as if we don't do most the damage ourselves at a local level. I know one area that floods because the guy that owns the land won't let the council do any work to fix the problem. He's the worst affected by floods when they happen but all his neighbours get flooded too. People like that deserve every bit of damage their property receives.

I still see trees getting cut down for seemingly no other reason than they're there. We can't blame the EU for our own problems.

Spanish Eyes · 04-01-2016 04:31PM

ScumLord wrote: »

It's the fact they lay the blame at the feet of the EU, as if we don't do most the damage ourselves at a local level. I know one area that floods because the guy that owns the land won't let the council do any work to fix the problem. He's the worst affected by floods when they happen but all his neighbours get flooded too. People like that deserve every bit of damage their property receives.

I still see trees getting cut down for seemingly no other reason than they're there. We can't blame the EU for our own problems.

Surely the common good should prevail in those circumstances? What I mean is, the person who is preventing good flood control should be sanctioned, like a CPO and be ordered to do it on pain of arrest and prison.

That may sound drastic, but surely one person should not be the cause of many others' woes.

Tiddlypeeps · 04-01-2016 04:32PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Flood defences work for the areas that they are around but they push the problem further downriver.

Tullow in County Carlow often flooded but the council recently built flood defences and they held up pretty well. Downriver didn't fare so well, ask the people of Enniscorthy.

Isn't Enniscorthy one of those towns that's always flooding? A quick google search turns up news articles for flooding there every year bar 2012 since 2010 (which was as far back as I was bothered looking). This is probably the worst year for them for flooding but it's also the worst rainfall the area has seen in recent years by a significant margin. http://www.met.ie/climate/monthly-data.asp?Num=375

Tullow is significantly upstream of Enniscorty, I would be very suprised if the Slaney hadn't managed to shed it's excess load caused by the Tullow defences into farmland along the way long before reaching Enniscorty. I could be wrong, it's possible it has high banks all the way from Tullow to Enniscorty, but I'd be surprised.

You could be right and I could easily be missing something, but I can see zero evidence to suggest what you say is true.

ScumLord · 04-01-2016 04:34PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Surely the common good should prevail in those circumstances? What I mean is, the person who is preventing good flood control should be sanctioned, like a CPO and be ordered to do it on pain of arrest and prison.

That may sound drastic, but surely one person should not be the cause of many others' woes.

Private land, he can do what he likes.

Spanish Eyes · 04-01-2016 04:38PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Private land, he can do what he likes.

Very selfish of that landowner.

I really hope those neighbours affected by his stubborn and selfish attitude can claim off HIS insurance for the damage he causes.

Austria! · 04-01-2016 04:40PM

ScumLord wrote: »

It's the fact they lay the blame at the feet of the EU, as if we don't do most the damage ourselves at a local level. I know one area that floods because the guy that owns the land won't let the council do any work to fix the problem. He's the worst affected by floods when they happen but all his neighbours get flooded too. People like that deserve every bit of damage their property receives.

I still see trees getting cut down for seemingly no other reason than they're there. We can't blame the EU for our own problems.

Do you think the subsidies highlighted in the article which give farmers financial incentive to remove trees have any real affect on the amount of trees?

I doubt he's saying it's the only reason, but he has written several articles about floods, with references. I trust him to know what he's talking about.

MadsL · 04-01-2016 04:46PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Private land, he can do what he likes.

That's not strictly true now is it?

Although it seems to be a common mentality.

Spanish Eyes · 04-01-2016 04:50PM

MadsL wrote: »

That's not strictly true now is it?

Although it seems to be a common mentality.

Can you expand on that? I initially posted that surely the common good should prevail.

I really thought it would, private land or not. Thanks.

ScumLord · 04-01-2016 04:52PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Very selfish of that landowner.

I really hope those neighbours affected by his stubborn and selfish attitude can claim off HIS insurance for the damage he causes.

I very much doubt he has any insurance. But the countryside is littered with people like that.

Austria! wrote: »

Do you think the subsidies highlighted in the article which give farmers financial incentive to remove trees have any real affect on the amount of trees?

Nobody should be incentivised to remove trees. But the damage was done a long time ago and compounded year on year by private individuals. To pick on one EU subsidy and say it's to blame for all flooding is just OTT.

The problem with most European countries is that a lot of land is privately owned. It's not like in the states where they can release a load of wolves into yellowstone park and allow nature to take it's course in finding a balance again. The article suggests releasing beavers, but if a farmer finds one of them flooding his land he'll kill the beaver rather than just accept he's not going to make any money this year.

BattleCorp · 04-01-2016 05:02PM

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Isn't Enniscorthy one of those towns that's always flooding? A quick google search turns up news articles for flooding there every year bar 2012 since 2010 (which was as far back as I was bothered looking). This is probably the worst year for them for flooding but it's also the worst rainfall the area has seen in recent years by a significant margin. http://www.met.ie/climate/monthly-data.asp?Num=375

Tullow is significantly upstream of Enniscorty, I would be very suprised if the Slaney hadn't managed to shed it's excess load caused by the Tullow defences into farmland along the way long before reaching Enniscorty. I could be wrong, it's possible it has high banks all the way from Tullow to Enniscorty, but I'd be surprised.

Fair enough, I can't blame Tullow's flood defences for the flood in Enniscorthy but it is logical that if water can't flood Tullow because of the flood defences, it has to be pushed further downriver. And a greater volume of water downriver would increase the likelihood of flooding.

twowheelsonly · 04-01-2016 05:11PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Would the EU allow large scale dredging of the rivers? Impact on fish/wildlife etc.?

While flood defenses are good, even with an unlimited budget, we can't protect everywhere.

ScumLord wrote: »

How is dredging going to affect all the wildlife living in the river though?

That's the trouble - it will impact on wildlife, but so does flooding. There'd have to be some collateral damage but so be it. It would mostly regenerate/repopulate very quickly in this country.

Re Dredging - It should start at the mouth of the river (or close to a recognised floodplain) and work backwards so that the water always has somewhere to run to without backing up

BattleCorp · 04-01-2016 05:14PM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That's the trouble - it will impact on wildlife, but so does flooding. There'd have to be some collateral damage but so be it. It would mostly regenerate/repopulate very quickly in this country.

The salmon population is hanging in by a thread. I doubt they'd regenerate/repopulate very quickly.

MadsL · 04-01-2016 05:17PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Can you expand on that? I initially posted that surely the common good should prevail.

I really thought it would, private land or not. Thanks.

The thought is "my land, I can do what I want with it"

The reality is that freedom is curtailed by Planning and Development laws and as you have pointed out by a sense of the common good - ecosystems do not recognise land boundaries.

Tiddlypeeps · 04-01-2016 05:20PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Fair enough, I can't blame Tullow's flood defences for the flood in Enniscorthy but it is logical that if water can't flood Tullow because of the flood defences, it has to be pushed further downriver. And a greater volume of water downriver would increase the likelihood of flooding.

This is true, but in most cases that extra water should end up in fields and other rural land down river. There is no way they don't take this into consideration when implementing any flood defences. If it's obviously going to cause worse flood damage down stream then that area would need to be addressed first.

It's much easier to provide emergency services to a few flooded rural dwellings and some farm land then it is to provide those services for potentially hundreds of people in towns. Sucks for the people that are still effected, but it can be a much better scenario over all when done right.

ForestFire · 04-01-2016 05:30PM

No connection to the website below, but after a quick search found this:-

http://www.irishfloodbarriers.ie/main-page_1.html

Why do business and homes in known flood areas not install these?

foggy_lad · 04-01-2016 05:34PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

A big massive Chinese style reservour in the centre of the country might not be a bad idea, look for least populated area and use that.

Leitrim?

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Dam the lot of them...

The rivers that is

Isn't that what caused much of the flooding?

jmayo wrote: »

Carrick on Shannon is great example of this stupidity.
The council allowed housing development/shops along the river on road to Sligo, in an area that anyone with a memory or an ounce of cop on could easily deduce was liable to flood.

Carlow County Council allowed apartment developments on the banks of the Barrow in areas known to flood almost yearly, must have been some big moneybags around to get those decisions to go the right way?

jmayo wrote: »

I think that is what happened further down the Barrow this year ?
Carlow had works carried out and shoved the problem further down river.
Graiguenamanagh got it really bad this year.

much of the flooding is due to roads/motorways/developments etc interfering with underground aquifers and the water table so water that once drained away evenly throughout an area now gets directed to other areas and overloads the natural drainage causing ground saturation and floods.

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Carlow town used to be one of the worst hit for flooding. I don't think it's flood once since they implemented their flooding defence plan a few years ago. They raised the levees and I'm not sure if they did anything else. The farm land around still gets flooded from time to time, but the town itself is grand.

I have no idea if these systems are cost effective, but they most certainly can and do work when done right.

The river was dredged and other flood water management systems put in place.

The Council still have the Graigue "Boards" in storage in case they are needed again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YX1VNnAiPQ

foggy_lad · 04-01-2016 05:40PM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

That's the trouble - it will impact on wildlife, but so does flooding. There'd have to be some collateral damage but so be it. It would mostly regenerate/repopulate very quickly in this country.

Re Dredging - It should start at the mouth of the river (or close to a recognised floodplain) and work backwards so that the water always has somewhere to run to without backing up

Dredging at the wrong time can wipe out not just life in the river but also much of the surrounding ecosystems that rely on the river for survival. It is a very delicate balance that if upset can take dozens of years to fully recover.

ScumLord · 04-01-2016 05:41PM

MadsL wrote: »

The thought is "my land, I can do what I want with it"

The reality is that freedom is curtailed by Planning and Development laws and as you have pointed out by a sense of the common good - ecosystems do not recognise land boundaries.

This has been going on for years. Maybe the councils have the power to just force the work on him and they're just not bothering. It's a small group of houses out the country so it's easy to ignore them.

jmayo · 04-01-2016 05:47PM

MadsL wrote: »

Funny how the one organisation who has repeatedly pointed out the problems with planning and development in Ireland that lead to flooding is the one that is most hated.

Oh you silly An Taisce!!

This would be the organisation that also does not want people to build on hills which to me would seem like sensible place to build to avoid floods.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Aggregating small fields into massive agricultural holdings, burying ditches and run off, chopping down trees to consolidate fields. There is a lot that can be done on the agricultural front, but the policy now seems to be the bigger the field the better. It is not helping matters I would guess.

WTF.
I think you are getting wires crossed.
An issue would be the reclaimation of land that was once marsh and boggy. This land now drains into local rivers and streams both adding to their water levels and at the same time lessening the amount of land available for soakage.
Trees and hedgerows would not absorb all the water.
Granted they would prevent subsidence and land slippage.

People also seem to be forgetting that our climate has changed and is changing.
We now have what were once summer flies in circulation in winter, flowers coming into bloom in winter, experienced temps of 14 degrees at night in mid December.
How many annual days frost do we now get ?
The climate is getting milder and wetter.

No matter if there was little development on flood plains over the last few decades, we would have had serious problems due to the level of rain experienced over the last odd month.

I think we will have to face it, we will need to build flood defenses around a fair few major towns, consign areas as floodable, dredge/drain a lot of our rivers, and basically give up on some properties/developments as un-protectable.

Akrasia · 04-01-2016 06:16PM

I don't know why ever one is in favour of speeding up the flow of our rivers through dredging and other measures to clear obstacles from the rivers.

Fast flowing rivers rip apart their own banks and destroy bridges and anything else in their path when we have extreme rainfall events.

We should be slowing down the rivers, not speeding them up

How should this be done?

Create ox bow lakes in rural parts of the river on areas suitable to become flood plains. Divert the course of the river in a u shape with high banks to slow down fast flowing water while also providing adfitional wildlife habitats and tourist amenities.

Plant more vegitation and trees in the hills and mountains to slow down runoff to the rivers and lakes

Pay farmers to allow use of their land as flood plains.

We can't move the towns, but we can move the rivers. Engineering the flow and putting the flood water where it can fertilise the soil of farmland instead of contaminating everything with sewage and chemicals which is what happens when urban areas get over-run

MadsL · 04-01-2016 06:17PM

jmayo wrote: »

This would be the organisation that also does not want people to build on hills which to me would seem like sensible place to build to avoid floods.

And where are you getting that gem of misinformation from?

MadsL · 04-01-2016 06:18PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Dredging at the wrong time can wipe out not just life in the river but also much of the surrounding ecosystems that rely on the river for survival. It is a very delicate balance that if upset can take dozens of years to fully recover.

http://charlesrangeleywilson.com/2015/12/19/why-dredging-makes-flooding-worse/

how to solve flood crisis

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