The Academies

funtime93 · 09-10-2014 11:35AM

MichaelsBoy1 wrote: »

So Noel Reid, Luke McGrath, Cathal Marsh, Dan Leavy, Ross Molony, Rory O'Loughlin, Cian Kelleher, Nick McCarthy, Ross Byrne all recent St. Micheals graduates to make it to Leinster.

Who is next Josh Murphy? James Ryan? Max Deegan? Adam Leavy? Charlie Cregan? David Duggan? Matthew Gilsenan?

Impressive stuff from the Swords.. they are a model for all private schools in how they've turned themselves into such a good developer of players.

Favourites for the senior cup next year too.

James Ryan is a shoe-in. Deegan is excellent also.

Winters · 09-10-2014 02:59PM

Don't forget Simon Keogh is now head of the players union, he left Michaels in 1998.

Michaels will miss Greg McWilliams now who has gone to the states as a DoR at.. UCLA I think?

Snegg · 09-10-2014 06:01PM

Winters wrote: »

Michaels will miss Greg McWilliams now who has gone to the states as a DoR at.. UCLA I think?

Think it's Yale.

funtime93 · 09-10-2014 06:19PM

Snegg wrote: »

Think it's Yale.

don't think he coached the team for the last few years though

ArmchairQB · 09-10-2014 09:52PM

They will be fine and won't miss a beat. Wasn't the main man there for a while

euro20162 · 13-10-2014 10:13PM

ArmchairQB wrote: »

They will be fine and won't miss a beat. Wasn't the main man there for a while

wouldnt agree, they are on a bit of a decline. Although that's coming down from a very high point. They are favourites this year for the Cup imo but after this year 6th years they don't quite have as much talent coming through.

They've played CBC + PBC in the last two weeks and were comfortable winners in both even without some of their top players. Interesting to see James Ryan playing 6 for them too. Ryan must be nearing 6'7 these days.

Stan27 · 29-01-2015 05:24PM

Anyone know how Adam Byrne is getting on. He played or leinster a while back didn't he.
Potential?

Hagz · 29-01-2015 05:32PM

Stan27 wrote: »

Anyone know how Adam Byrne is getting on. He played or leinster a while back didn't he.
Potential?

He's been plagued with injury, but even taking that aside things aren't looking that great. I've been very underwhelmed whenever I've gotten the chance to see him. He looks like a fantastic athlete, but not such a fantastic rugby player. Of course there's still potential there, but they hype has certainly died down.

Stan27 · 29-01-2015 05:37PM

Hagz wrote: »

He's been plagued with injury, but even taking that aside things aren't looking that great. I've been very underwhelmed whenever I've gotten the chance to see him. He looks like a fantastic athlete, but not such a fantastic rugby player. Of course there's still potential there, but they hype has certainly died down.

What about dan leavy. How is he going?

Hagz · 29-01-2015 05:56PM

Stan27 wrote: »

What about dan leavy. How is he going?

Picked up a knee in jury in pre-season, came back around November and played a couple of games in the B&I cup and then came off the bench against Edinburgh. I'm not sure what happened then, but he obviously picked up another injury. I don't think he's played any games for UCD this season. Josh Van der Flier is earning game-time that most likely would have been Leavy's.

ArmchairQB · 30-01-2015 10:20AM

Adam Byrne's star has fallen,form and injury record are not good, he hasn't lived upto the hype. I am hoping the same doesn't happen to Billy Dardis and hopefully he kicks on and has a good Irish 20's this year and stays injury free

Leavy has far more potential very good player but injury is preventing him from kicking on. Van der Flier will probably not play much with UCD the rest of this season as will be ring fenced in Leinster with other back rows away at 6 nations

bilston · 30-01-2015 10:52AM

goreyguy wrote: »

List of every player currently in one of the four Irish academies.

Loosehead Ed Byrne
Loosehead Jack O'Connell
Loosehead Kyle McCall
Loosehead Finlay Bealham
Loosehead James Cronin
Loosehead/Hooker James Treacy
Hooker Niall Scannell
Hooker Brian Byrne
Hooker David Doyle
Hooker Jonny Murphy
Hooker Kevin O'Byrne
Hooker Duncan Casey
Hooker James Rael
Tighthead Martin Moore
Tighthead Tadhg Furlong
Tighthead Conor Carey
Tighthead Jake Caulfield
Tighthead Jamie Dever
Tighthead Peter Reilly
Lock Cathal O'Flaherty
Lock Tadhg Beirne
Lock Gavin Thornbury
Lock Alan O'Connor
Lock James Simpson
Lock Daniel Qualter
Lock Ultan Dilane
Lock Philip Donnellan
Lock Brian Hayes
Flanker/Lock Ben Marshall
Flanker Dan Leavy
Flanker Conor Gilsenan
Flanker Josh Van Der Flier
Flanker Jordi Murphy
Flanker Conor Joyce
Flanker Neil Faloon
Flanker Aaron Conneely
Flanker David Heffernan
Flanker Jonathan Gardiner
Flanker Shane Buckley
Flanker Ryan Murphy
Eight Jack Conan
Eight Sean O'Connell
Eight Jack O'Donoghue
Scrum Half Luke McGrath
Scrum Half Marcus Walsh
Scrum Half Kieran Marmion(may have signed a non academy contract recently)
Scrum Half Brian Haugh
Outhalf Cathal Marsh
Outhalf Noel Reid
Outhalf Stuart Olding
Outhalf Jack Carty
Outhalf Tadgh Leader
Outhalf Johnny Holland
Centre Cian Bohane
Centre Jordan Coughlan
Centre Colm O'Shea
Centre Chris Farrell
Centre Corey Hircock
Centre Harry McNulty
Centre/Fullback Robbie Henshaw(may have signed a non academy contract recently)
Wing Andrew Boyle
Wing Sam Coughlan Murray
Wing Conor Finn
Wing Steve Macauley
Wing Ronan O'Mahony
Wing/Fullback Darren Hudson
Wing/Fullback Darren Moroney
Fullback Mikey Sherlock*(not sure about his status)
Fullback Rory Scholes
Fullback Peter Nelson
Fullback Ricky Andrew
Fullback Shane Layden
Fullback Darragh Leader
Fullback Darren Sweetnam

I make it that 7 of those listed are currently or have already been involved in Ireland squad selections. 6 of them I think have been capped (Moore, Olding, Henshaw, Murphy, Reid (think he was cappednin the summer) and Cronin). Conan being the other one not yet capped.

That's quite impressive IMO.

kfreds09 · 24-03-2015 04:36AM

Likely players joining the academy this year?

Leinster: Loughman, Heffernan, Ryan, Murphy, Timoney.
Munster: O'Connor, McNulty, Betts, Ryan, Kilkenny, Quinlan, Kiernan.
Ulster: McCall, McBurney, Todd, Bingham, Lyttle.
Connacht: O'Donnell, Romaine, McVeigh, Trayers, Lowndes.

Who else are strong contenders?

ArmchairQB · 24-03-2015 12:14PM

kfreds09 wrote: »

Likely players joining the academy this year?

Leinster: Loughman, Heffernan, Ryan, Murphy, Timoney.
Munster: O'Connor, McNulty, Betts, Ryan, Kilkenny, Quinlan, Kiernan.
Ulster: McCall, McBurney, Todd, Bingham, Lyttle.
Connacht: O'Donnell, Romaine, McVeigh, Trayers, Lowndes.

Who else are strong contenders?

Heffernan has had 2 years of Sub academy and seems to have gone backwards, I wouldn't have him, we need a hooker any thoughts?

Snegg · 24-03-2015 12:30PM

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Heffernan has had 2 years of Sub academy and seems to have gone backwards, I wouldn't have him, we need a hooker any thoughts?

Sean McNulty, although he played with Munster at 20's, he's in the Leinster sub-academy.

kfreds09 · 24-03-2015 02:55PM

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Heffernan has had 2 years of Sub academy and seems to have gone backwards, I wouldn't have him, we need a hooker any thoughts?

He is still the strongest and pretty much only TH prospect in the Leinster system.
Either Sean McNulty or Hugo Kean at hooker.

The Lost Sheep · 15-07-2015 01:13PM

Updating this list in same style as the OP except no Ulster players - is the list of players on Ulster site up to date? And if not where can you find an up to date list of Ulster academy players?

Loosehead Conor Kyne
Loosehead Jacob Walshe
Loosehead Niall Horan
Loosehead Liam O Connor
Loosehead Brian Scott
Loosehead Peter Dooley
Loosehead Jeremy Loughman
Hooker Shane Delahunt
Hooker Jack Dinneen
Hooker Pat O’Toole
Hooker Sean McNulty
Tighthead Jamie Dever
Tighthead Saba Meunargia
Tighthead Conan O’Donnell
Tighthead Rory Burke
Tighthead JP Phelan
Tighthead Oisin Heffernan
Second Row Sean O’Brien
Second Row Cian Romaine
Second Row Sean McCarthy
Second Row John Madigan
Second Row Darragh Moloney
Second Row Ross Molony
Second Row Josh Murphy
Second Row David O Connor
Flanker James Connolly
Flanker Marc Kelly
Flanker Rory Moloney
Flanker Stephen McVeigh
Flanker Conor Oliver
Flanker Ben Kilkenny
Flanker Peadar Timmins
Scrum Half Conor Lowndes
Scrumhalf Ryan Foley
Scrumhalf Jack Cullen
Scrumhalf Nick McCarthy
Outhalf Conor McKeon
Outhalf Gearoid Lyons
Outhalf Tomás Quinlan
Outhalf Steve Crosbie
Outhalf Ross Byrne
Centre Rory Parata
Centre Peter Robb
Centre Ned Hodson
Centre Dan Goggin
Centre Rory Scannell
Centre Tom Daly
Centre Gary Ringrose
Centre Harrison Brewer
Centre Tom Farrell
Centre Rory O Loughlin
Wing Cormac Brennan
Wing Greg O'Shea
Wing Alex Wootton
Wing Steven McMahon
Wing Adam Byrne
Wing/Fullback Ian Fitzpatrick
Wing/Fullback Cian Kelleher
Wing/Fullback Ciaran Gaffney
Wing/Fullback Stephen Fitzgerald
Fullback David Johnston
Fullback Billy Dardis
Fullback Joey Carbery

awec · 15-07-2015 01:25PM

The Ulster academy and Ravens team is a secret. You need to know the secret handshake to get any info about them.

Stainalert · 15-07-2015 02:10PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Updating this list in same style as the OP except no Ulster players - is the list of players on Ulster site up to date? And if not where can you find an up to date list of Ulster academy players?

Loosehead Conor Kyne
Loosehead Jacob Walshe
Loosehead Niall Horan
Loosehead Liam O Connor
Loosehead Brian Scott
Loosehead Peter Dooley
Loosehead Jeremy Loughman
Hooker Shane Delahunt
Hooker Jack Dinneen
Hooker Pat O’Toole
Hooker Sean McNulty
Tighthead Jamie Dever
Tighthead Saba Meunargia
Tighthead Conan O’Donnell
Tighthead Rory Burke
Tighthead JP Phelan
Tighthead Oisin Heffernan
Second Row Sean O’Brien
Second Row Cian Romaine
Second Row Sean McCarthy
Second Row John Madigan
Second Row Darragh Moloney
Second Row Ross Molony
Second Row Josh Murphy
Second Row David O Connor
Flanker James Connolly
Flanker Marc Kelly
Flanker Rory Moloney
Flanker Stephen McVeigh
Flanker Conor Oliver
Flanker Ben Kilkenny
Flanker Peadar Timmins
Scrum Half Conor Lowndes
Scrumhalf Ryan Foley
Scrumhalf Jack Cullen
Scrumhalf Nick McCarthy
Outhalf Conor McKeon
Outhalf Gearoid Lyons
Outhalf Tomás Quinlan
Outhalf Steve Crosbie
Outhalf Ross Byrne
Centre Rory Parata
Centre Peter Robb
Centre Ned Hodson
Centre Dan Goggin
Centre Rory Scannell
Centre Tom Daly
Centre Gary Ringrose
Centre Harrison Brewer
Centre Tom Farrell
Centre Rory O Loughlin
Wing Cormac Brennan
Wing Greg O'Shea
Wing Alex Wootton
Wing Steven McMahon
Wing Adam Byrne
Wing/Fullback Ian Fitzpatrick
Wing/Fullback Cian Kelleher
Wing/Fullback Ciaran Gaffney
Wing/Fullback Stephen Fitzgerald
Fullback David Johnston
Fullback Billy Dardis
Fullback Joey Carbery

Think Joey Carbery is being told he has to play 9

The Lost Sheep · 15-07-2015 03:57PM

awec wrote: »

The Ulster academy and Ravens team is a secret. You need to know the secret handshake to get any info about them.

I know that but still had to ask.

Stainalert wrote: »

Think Joey Carbery is being told he has to play 9

I could have listed him in(and some others) in numerous positions. He is likely to be playing across the backline depending on needs of club, A team in games. He may end up as a 9 but still likely play in other positions in AIL etc

jacothelad · 15-07-2015 11:04PM

awec wrote: »

The Ulster academy and Ravens team is a secret. You need to know the secret handshake to get any info about them.

Correct. Even the coaching staff don't know who is in the Academy. They just turn up, wander around for a few hours, have a cappuccino or two and then go home.

jm08 · 15-07-2015 11:36PM

... ahem

Joshua Atkinson (Flanker)
Paul Jackson (Hooker)
John Andrew (Hooker)
Sam Arnold (Centre)
Craig Trenier (Prop)
Alex Thomspon (Lock)
Michael Lagan (Loosehead Prop)
Jack Owens (Back 3)
David Busby (Back 3)
Connor Young (Scrum Half)
David Shanahan (Scrum Half)
Jonathan Murphy (Hooker)
Jacob Stockdale (Centre, Wing, FB)
Sean O'Hagan (Outhalf)
Alan O'Connor (Lock)
John Donnan (Lock)
Lorcan Dow (No 8)
Frank Taggart (Flanker)

http://ulsterrugby.com/Team/Academy.aspx

irishbucsfan · 16-07-2015 12:09AM

What IS the latest on Sean O'Hagan, is he still with Ulster?

The Lost Sheep · 16-07-2015 12:03PM

jm08 wrote: »

... ahem

Joshua Atkinson (Flanker)
Paul Jackson (Hooker)
John Andrew (Hooker)
Sam Arnold (Centre)
Craig Trenier (Prop)
Alex Thomspon (Lock)
Michael Lagan (Loosehead Prop)
Jack Owens (Back 3)
David Busby (Back 3)
Connor Young (Scrum Half)
David Shanahan (Scrum Half)
Jonathan Murphy (Hooker)
Jacob Stockdale (Centre, Wing, FB)
Sean O'Hagan (Outhalf)
Alan O'Connor (Lock)
John Donnan (Lock)
Lorcan Dow (No 8)
Frank Taggart (Flanker)

http://ulsterrugby.com/Team/Academy.aspx

That isn't up to date. Doesn't include new signings etc etc

wp_rathead · 16-07-2015 12:13PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What IS the latest on Sean O'Hagan, is he still with Ulster?

Guessing Year 2 of Academy?
Unless injured I'd be surprised if we don't see him play for the Ulster Se7ens team in Limerick - way he played for Corinthians always thought would make a great sevens player

bilston · 16-07-2015 04:30PM

jm08 wrote: »

... ahem

Joshua Atkinson (Flanker)
Paul Jackson (Hooker)
John Andrew (Hooker)
Sam Arnold (Centre)
Craig Trenier (Prop)
Alex Thomspon (Lock)
Michael Lagan (Loosehead Prop)
Jack Owens (Back 3)
David Busby (Back 3)
Connor Young (Scrum Half)
David Shanahan (Scrum Half)
Jonathan Murphy (Hooker)
Jacob Stockdale (Centre, Wing, FB)
Sean O'Hagan (Outhalf)
Alan O'Connor (Lock)
John Donnan (Lock)
Lorcan Dow (No 8)
Frank Taggart (Flanker)

http://ulsterrugby.com/Team/Academy.aspx

I think that is last year's Academy although I'd say most of these lads will form the 15/16 class.

It is usually released after the U20 Inter Pros. Although I'm sure it is known long before that.

CMOTDibbler · 03-01-2016 08:02PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I can. New Zealand doesn't support 19 professional squads.

14 ITM squads and 5 Super Rugby ones.

If you can at the same time believe that provinces are short of players and the academies are big enough, how do you square that circle?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The academies don't need to be bigger and only will be bigger when they are required to be bigger but that isn't now.
Ive been critical of the development system in Ireland since I joined this site about 5 and a half years ago but I don't want bigger academies unless we improve our base and lower levels first or else we wont improve enough. The academies clearly don't need to be bigger. The development/academy staff/IRFU development officers don't see a need for bigger increases in academy size

There's too much self congratulation going on about the academies without any actual analysis on their effectiveness. They aren't effective, not enough players are coming through and not enough players are being developed. They lurch from crisis to crisis constantly fire-fighting. A few years ago, there was a second row crisis in Leinster (there's another one looming). The call went out for players over a certain height to go for trials. It didn't matter whether they had played rugby or not. As long as the academies stay their current size, development officers have an easy job. Simply turn up for the schools cup matches and run a few trials and you've got your intake.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What factual evidence do you want to show we don't have the depth for bigger academies.

Tell me what happens the two thousand or so rugby players that leave school every year?

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

It shows you don't have to make it into an academy at 18 to 'make it'. We don't need bigger academies as there isn't enough players for the academies to be so much bigger. The system didn't fail these players. That they weren't picked at 18/19/20 doesn't mean the system failed them. Any one who is dropped but makes a career elsewhere isn't a failure of the system.

Yes it is. Because what it represents is the very tip of the iceberg. The very fact of their existence points to an endemic failure. They were good enough and the system missed them. How many give up? How many go abroad? How many switch to another sport?

The Lost Sheep · 03-01-2016 09:14PM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

14 ITM squads and 5 Super Rugby ones.

They are much interlinked squads. There isn't 19 squads.

If you can at the same time believe that provinces are short of players and the academies are big enough, how do you square that circle?

We always need greater talent coming through but we cant increase academy size just for the sake of it. The quality of player isn't there for doubling or drastically increasing the size of the academies

There's too much self congratulation going on about the academies without any actual analysis on their effectiveness. They aren't effective, not enough players are coming through and not enough players are being developed. They lurch from crisis to crisis constantly fire-fighting. A few years ago, there was a second row crisis in Leinster (there's another one looming). The call went out for players over a certain height to go for trials. It didn't matter whether they had played rugby or not. As long as the academies stay their current size, development officers have an easy job. Simply turn up for the schools cup matches and run a few trials and you've got your intake.

You clearly don't know who you are talking to. The academies are relatively effective.
Could they be better? Yes.
Does better mean bigger? No. To say the academies lurch from crisis to crisis is not true.

Tell me what happens the two thousand or so rugby players that leave school every year?

Most give up the sport because of the way the system operates and how the majority go 5/6 years while in secondary school never playing for a club. Adding extra 18/19/20 year olds to a provincial academy doesn't change what happens to most of those who leave school each year.

Yes it is. Because what it represents is the very tip of the iceberg. The very fact of their existence points to an endemic failure. They were good enough and the system missed them. How many give up? How many go abroad? How many switch to another sport?

Adding a few dozen more to a provincial academy wont stop the numbers from dropping out of the sport or going abroad. You are totally confusing different issues.

CMOTDibbler · 03-01-2016 10:17PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They are much interlinked squads. There isn't 19 squads.

Super Rugby players play for ITM sides. The ITM sides exist in their own right with their own infrastructure. Even if you subtracted the Super Rugby sides from the total, that's 14 professional sides from a pool of 140,000 registered players. We don't even have one third of that from 100,000.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We always need greater talent coming through but we cant increase academy size just for the sake of it. The quality of player isn't there for doubling or drastically increasing the size of the academies

So you say. Yet the evidence is there that quality players are being produced outside the academies and making their own way without the academies' help. That's a failure right there.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You clearly don't know who you are talking to. The academies are relatively effective.
Could they be better? Yes.

This is an anonymous forum. Of course I don't know who I'm talking to just as you don't know who I am. Is there a point to this? 'Relatively effective' is damning with faint praise.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Does better mean bigger? No. To say the academies lurch from crisis to crisis is not true.

Munster academy was in a crisis after Declan Kidney's time. It was barely functioning and it took some years before it started producing players again. The Demented Mole covered this a couple of years ago in detail.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Most give up the sport because of the way the system operates and how the majority go 5/6 years while in secondary school never playing for a club. Adding extra 18/19/20 year olds to a provincial academy doesn't change what happens to most of those who leave school each year.
Adding a few dozen more to a provincial academy wont stop the numbers from dropping out of the sport or going abroad. You are totally confusing different issues.

Seriously? Giving players a better chance of forging a professional career is not going to help? If you want to grow a sport, the best approach is choke off the outlet?

The Lost Sheep · 04-01-2016 12:01AM

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Super Rugby players play for ITM sides. The ITM sides exist in their own right with their own infrastructure. Even if you subtracted the Super Rugby sides from the total, that's 14 professional sides from a pool of 140,000 registered players. We don't even have one third of that from 100,000.

They get the best of their resources and of our 100'000 so many are in schools and are included from their 10-12 weeks or so sessions with development officers. We cannot compare ourselves to NZ. That they have that much doesn't mean we can compare ourselves to their set up.

So you say. Yet the evidence is there that quality players are being produced outside the academies and making their own way without the academies' help. That's a failure right there. This is an anonymous forum. Of course I don't know who I'm talking to just as you don't know who I am. Is there a point to this? 'Relatively effective' is damning with faint praise.

I see enough and its not been looked at by coaches etc. There was interviews a few years ago with Munster academy head(may have also been or been Leinster academy chief) which explained why they don't have more in the academy. They don't see having much bigger sized academy as being good enough for what they want.

Munster academy was in a crisis after Declan Kidney's time. It was barely functioning and it took some years before it started producing players again. The Demented Mole covered this a couple of years ago in detail.

Munster's academy and development system is still completely flawed. Better than past but while not exactly in crisis mode it still has significant issues.

Seriously? Giving players a better chance of forging a professional career is not going to help? If you want to grow a sport, the best approach is choke off the outlet?

Yeah its better. I want to grow the sport but doubling the size of the academy isn't going to grow the sport and isn't whats needed.

The Academies

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