Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

Bobby Baccala · 03-01-2016 01:11AM

Who got motm today?

Mr Blobby · 03-01-2016 01:12AM

P4DDY2K11 wrote: »

Who got motm today?

I'd imagine Kos or Cech.

emmetlego · 03-01-2016 01:29AM

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Want a decent performace against Newcastle today. A good start could make this a fun day for us.

But I'll take one nil, for definite.

This man gets quote of the season! Premeditation central!

gosplan · 03-01-2016 08:45AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

I just think there is more to a player than working hard.

I'm a big Ramsey fan but in the CMF spot he displays some serious immaturity in terms of his decision making at times.

It's simply not good enough to say Cech bailed him out with a save he shouldn't have made or the final goal where he should have put Campbell through for a tap in wasn't crucial.

Simply not good enough.

JustTheOne · 03-01-2016 10:12AM

gosplan wrote: »

I'm a big Ramsey fan but in the CMF spot he displays some serious immaturity in terms of his decision making at times.

It's simply not good enough to say Cech bailed him out with a save he shoulldn't ohave made or the final goal where he should have put Campbell through for a tap in wasn't crucial.

Simply not good enough.

Exactly and he has missed so many simple chances since he came back he should be putting away.

It's no good saying at least he's getting into good positions. He needs to be finishing them or what's the point.

But the opinion that all we can ask is he works hard I don't get at all.

Eboue.
Gervinho.
Denison.
Even santos worked hard but were criticized to the point of eboue been booed by his own club supporters.

I don't see why Ramsey gets a free pass.

Hard work alone won't win us this title.

We have no one else to take his place anyway so what can we do.

03-01-2016 10:27AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Exactly and he has missed so many simple chances since he came back he should be putting away.

It's no good saying at least he's getting into good positions. He needs to be finishing them or what's the point.

But the opinion that all we can ask is he works hard I don't get at all.

Eboue.
Gervinho.
Denison.
Even santos worked hard but were criticized to the point of eboue been booed by his own club supporters.

I don't see why Ramsey gets a free pass.

Hard work alone won't win us this title.

We have no one else to take his place anyway so what can we do.

Since Ramsey moved centrally, he has been getting goals and assists. I won't begrudge him missing the chance near the end, he was involved in that move from the other end of the pitch and busted his gut to get where he was. My opinion might be slightly different if we needed that goal to win

I also think he's getting the raw end of the deal, having to play centrally with Flamini instead of Santi who always had Coq to back him up.

wonga77 · 03-01-2016 10:42AM

I think Ramsey is a victim of his own success, he is being judged on that crazy spell of form 2 years ago where everything turned to gold for him. He hasnt hit those heights again and looks short of confidence in front of goal but I wouldnt be as harsh on him as some here are, covers alot of ground and gets through a pile of work

JustTheOne · 03-01-2016 10:45AM

wonga77 wrote: »

I think Ramsey is a victim of his own success, he is being judged on that crazy spell of form 2 years ago where everything turned to gold for him. He hasnt hit those heights again and looks short of confidence in front of goal but I wouldlnt be as harsh on him as some here are, covers alot of ground and gets through a pile of work

Covers ground and gets through a pile of work?

Is that the standard of player that's needed at arsenal or stoke?(well stoke up until this season!)

gosplan · 03-01-2016 10:47AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Exactly and he has missed so many simple chances since he came back he should be putting away.

It's no good saying at least he's getting into good positions. He needs to be finishing them or what's the point.

But the opinion that all we can ask is he works hard I don't get at all.

Eboue.
Gervinho.
Denison.
Even santos worked hard but were criticized to the point of eboue been booed by his own club supporters.

I don't see why Ramsey gets a free pass.

Hard work alone won't win us this title.

We have no one else to take his place anyway so what can we do.

It's not that he works hard, it's that he works harder than anyone else we have in that position is capable of doing.

It's not about 'trying', it's about raising the bar in terms of presence in the midfield and he does that.

He could be amazing, really a world class midfielder but the mistakes or errors bring him back a bit.

Still young though. Especially for such an informant role.

gosplan · 03-01-2016 10:51AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Covers ground and gets through a pile of work?

Is that the standard of player that's needed at arsenal or stoke?(well stoke up until this season!)

He does far more than just that tbh.

Taken from arseblog:

-Led both teams with 67/76 passing (Tiote was second with 64/64)
-Was second for both teams with 24/29 passing in the final 1/3 (Özil #1)
-Led Arsenal with 3/4 dribbling (tied with Özil) and had 2 successful dribbles in the Newcastle 18 yard box (Özil had 1 — both of these are unusual, you don’t see a lot of successful dribbles in the 18)
-Led Arsenal with 7 ball recoveries (Özil was tied for 2nd with 6)
-Led Arsenal with 10 attempted tackles, but only won 3 (Flamini led Arsenal with 6/9 tackles)
-Led Arsenal with 2 shots on target, Arsenal only had 3 shots on target the whole game (Giroud had 5 shots, got zero on target, had one go out for a throw in)
-Created 2 chances for teammates, both from open play (the same number as Özil but Özil also created 2 chances from set plays (corners) for a total of 4 chances created)
-Had just 1 interception (tied with Özil, Mertesacker, Giroud, and Campbell)

He's a really effective player over 90 mins. Like I said, he just has one or two moments of immaturity but those are the bits that make the highlight reel.

If he sorted the decision making thing out and improved his shooting, he'd be the best in the league by a distance IMO.

He's only 25 though.

Gringo180 · 03-01-2016 10:51AM

JustTheOne wrote: »

Covers ground and gets through a pile of work?

Is that the standard of player that's needed at arsenal or stoke?(well stoke up until this season!)

Exactly. Robbie Savage also covered a lot of ground and got through a pile of work but I would never consider that good enough for us nor should anybody else. The bottom line is we need our centre midfielders to create and score goals and Ramsey hasn't done much of that for near on a year. He gets away with murder from most of our fans.

03-01-2016 10:53AM

Gringo180 wrote: »

Exactly. Robbie Savage also covered a lot of ground and got through a pile of work but I would never consider that good enough for us nor should anybody else. The bottom line is we need our centre midfielders to create and score goals and Ramsey hasn't done much of that for near on a year. He gets away with murder from most of our fans.

Errrr....Ramsey hasn't been playing central midfield for most of this year. Have you been watching?

Santi has been playing centrally, and did he score any goals the last calendar year?

Would be interesting to see stats of Ramsey playing centrally, and Ramsey on the wing. He's very effective in midfield.

Arne_Saknussem · 03-01-2016 11:26AM

People comparing Ramsey to Eboue & ****ing Santos?! :pac:

emergingstar · 03-01-2016 11:48AM

gosplan wrote: »

He does far more than just that tbh.

Taken from arseblog:

-Led both teams with 67/76 passing (Tiote was second with 64/64)
-Was second for both teams with 24/29 passing in the final 1/3 (Özil #1)
-Led Arsenal with 3/4 dribbling (tied with Özil) and had 2 successful dribbles in the Newcastle 18 yard box (Özil had 1 — both of these are unusual, you don’t see a lot of successful dribbles in the 18)
-Led Arsenal with 7 ball recoveries (Özil was tied for 2nd with 6)
-Led Arsenal with 10 attempted tackles, but only won 3 (Flamini led Arsenal with 6/9 tackles)
-Led Arsenal with 2 shots on target, Arsenal only had 3 shots on target the whole game (Giroud had 5 shots, got zero on target, had one go out for a throw in)
-Created 2 chances for teammates, both from open play (the same number as Özil but Özil also created 2 chances from set plays (corners) for a total of 4 chances created)
-Had just 1 interception (tied with Özil, Mertesacker, Giroud, and Campbell)

He's a really effective player over 90 mins. Like I said, he just has one or two moments of immaturity but those are the bits that make the highlight reel.

If he sorted the decision making thing out and improved his shooting, he'd be the best in the league by a distance IMO.

He's only 25 though.

Will people re read this post before they compare Ramsey to savage or santos ffs

emergingstar · 03-01-2016 11:51AM

Basil3 wrote: »

Errrr....Ramsey hasn't been playing central midfield for most of this year. Have you been watching?

Santi has been playing centrally, and did he score any goals the last calendar year?

Would be interesting to see stats of Ramsey playing centrally, and Ramsey on the wing. He's very effective in midfield.

Think he outdone Santi for goals and assists in a couple of games than what Santi did for the year

But that's not taking away from what Santi brings to the team he brings a lot and we miss him

But people are really picking the wrong arguments when saying Ramsey shouldn't be in there

Soups123 · 03-01-2016 12:20PM

Have to agree the calling out of Ramsey is insane, I really wonder what people watch sometimes.

He'd walk into any team in the country. He is far more than effort and grit, he is a tempo setter, watch almost every counter attack he usually drives it.

He delivers goals and assists. Undropable? No, absolute key to a title challenge? yes.

Soups123 · 03-01-2016 12:21PM

gosplan wrote: »

He does far more than just that tbh.

Taken from arseblog:

-Led both teams with 67/76 passing (Tiote was second with 64/64)
-Was second for both teams with 24/29 passing in the final 1/3 (Özil #1)
-Led Arsenal with 3/4 dribbling (tied with Özil) and had 2 successful dribbles in the Newcastle 18 yard box (Özil had 1 — both of these are unusual, you don’t see a lot of successful dribbles in the 18)
-Led Arsenal with 7 ball recoveries (Özil was tied for 2nd with 6)
-Led Arsenal with 10 attempted tackles, but only won 3 (Flamini led Arsenal with 6/9 tackles)
-Led Arsenal with 2 shots on target, Arsenal only had 3 shots on target the whole game (Giroud had 5 shots, got zero on target, had one go out for a throw in)
-Created 2 chances for teammates, both from open play (the same number as Özil but Özil also created 2 chances from set plays (corners) for a total of 4 chances created)
-Had just 1 interception (tied with Özil, Mertesacker, Giroud, and Campbell)

He's a really effective player over 90 mins. Like I said, he just has one or two moments of immaturity but those are the bits that make the highlight reel.

If he sorted the decision making thing out and improved his shooting, he'd be the best in the league by a distance IMO.

He's only 25 though.

Excellent post.

Colonialboy · 03-01-2016 12:28PM

Im really enjoying these 'ugly' wins. For too long Arsneal were 'too posh to fight' now we seem comfortable getting into a scrap and coming out on top.
I think thats down to the players, I think all the squad is on the same wavelength and willing to fight for every ball, fight for their team mates, manager and fans in that order.

You dont win a league with a great player, you win it with a great player in a great squad.

Im not too bothered yet about Santi,Ramsey, debates or who should be picked, The whole squad is turning up for most matchs and thats enough for me.
I dont think the team is too concerned either in having a big name in every position. All the team seem comfortable in the rotations and giving their all when they get a shot. Ozil doesnt give a ****e if Ramsey, Santi or Campbell is alongside him, who ever is in there just play to your best and dont let the rest of us down.

I sense the pressure on each player to perform ot their best is coming from their team mates. And thats the best source, if your first thought as a player is not to let your team mates down then your well on your way. Then when the result goes your way, you also know your teammates will recognise your part in the success , right thru the whole squad and that counts.

Even Wenger seems to be learning, tactics have improved, our setup and grit. Yeah no **** sherlock a top class goalkeeper will help you sit on top of the PL. They only one who can mess it up now is Wenger though. Let the team self-manage our way to the title, no tinkering, keep it simple for now.

JustTheOne · 03-01-2016 01:32PM

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

People comparing Ramsey to Eboue & ****ing Santos?! :pac:

Seriously I disnt compare them.

Someone said Ramsey isn't great but all we can ask for is he works hard.

I was merely pointing out those players worked hard but didnt get away with that alone.

farna_boy · 03-01-2016 04:00PM

In fairness I can see both sides of the argument. My biggest problem with Ramsey is he is far too selfish around the box and has frequently taken on shots when others were in a far better position than he was. I understand he is hungry for goals and hasn't been scoring with the same frequency as previously but he is not a striker and when there are strikers in better positions than he, the team would be better off if he just passed it to them.

In a way it reminds me of himself a few years ago when he constantly tried fancy flicks rather than simple passes and at that time he also came under a lot of scrutiny. Once he stopped trying the fancy flicks he had a great season with us, although I think it was the following season.

In a similar way, if he could now look for the pass instead of the coutinho type wonder goal I would be far more impressed and I'm sure the goals would start coming for him again.

tayto lover · 03-01-2016 04:03PM

Ramsey is a great player with a great engine who gets a lot of his decisions wrong. I like to see him on the team-sheet though.

cson · 03-01-2016 05:06PM

Ramsey would be excellent with an experienced quality holding midfielder beside him. Flamini isn't it, Coquelin could well be. Ozil (27), Ramsey (25) and Coquelin (24) are the first choice midfield trio for us imo & they've a very nice age profile too.

Gringo180 · 03-01-2016 05:09PM

Basil3 wrote: »

Errrr....Ramsey hasn't been playing central midfield for most of this year. Have you been watching?

Santi has been playing centrally, and did he score any goals the last calendar year?

Would be interesting to see stats of Ramsey playing centrally, and Ramsey on the wing. He's very effective in midfield.

He has been very average this season and his stats reflect this. 3 goals and 2 assists in 22 games is nothing to write home about. I would have Santi in the middle of the park ahead of him all day long, ball retention is much better and he will create more. Ramsey is just so wasteful at times.

emergingstar wrote: »

Will people re read this post before they compare Ramsey to savage or santos ffs

Nobody compared him to Robbie Savage. I was merely pointing out work rate alone just doesn't cut it at this level.

Gringo180 · 03-01-2016 05:20PM

gosplan wrote: »

He does far more than just that tbh.

Taken from arseblog:

-Led both teams with 67/76 passing (Tiote was second with 64/64)
-Was second for both teams with 24/29 passing in the final 1/3 (Özil #1)
-Led Arsenal with 3/4 dribbling (tied with Özil) and had 2 successful dribbles in the Newcastle 18 yard box (Özil had 1 — both of these are unusual, you don’t see a lot of successful dribbles in the 18)
-Led Arsenal with 7 ball recoveries (Özil was tied for 2nd with 6)
-Led Arsenal with 10 attempted tackles, but only won 3 (Flamini led Arsenal with 6/9 tackles)
-Led Arsenal with 2 shots on target, Arsenal only had 3 shots on target the whole game (Giroud had 5 shots, got zero on target, had one go out for a throw in)
-Created 2 chances for teammates, both from open play (the same number as Özil but Özil also created 2 chances from set plays (corners) for a total of 4 chances created)
-Had just 1 interception (tied with Özil, Mertesacker, Giroud, and Campbell)

Your pulling stats out of a game we were poor in. Some of the stats above are ridiculous with all due respect. 30% of tackles won? 1 interception in the whole game? 75% dribbling success? 2 successful dribbles in the opponents 18 yard box?

The rest of the stats I would agree are impressive enough.

Ol' Donie · 03-01-2016 06:02PM

Good to see the Tottenham drop points at Everton.

As if there aren't already enough reasons for us to not act the eejit this year, we might be the only ones who can stop them. Eeesh.

JustTheOne · 03-01-2016 06:08PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

He has been very average this season and his stats reflect this. 3 goals and 2 assists in 22 games is nothing to write home about. I would have Santi in the middle of the park ahead of him all day long, ball retention is much better and he will create more. Ramsey is just so wasteful at times.

Nobody compared him to Robbie Savage. I was merely pointing out work rate alone just doesn't cut it at this level.

3 goals and 2 assists in 22 games.

That is poor, that's my point yeah he gets into great positions but what good is that if he can't finish.

Giroud and Welbeck get slated for their finishing but Ramsey is absolved.

03-01-2016 06:11PM

Gringo180 wrote: »

He has been very average this season and his stats reflect this. 3 goals and 2 assists in 22 games is nothing to write home about. I would have Santi in the middle of the park ahead of him all day long, ball retention is much better and he will create more. Ramsey is just so wasteful at times.

I like Santi as a player but you said that a central midfielder should be getting goals and assists. Ramsey will get a load more of these playing in the middle than Santi can manage.

He's been forced to do a job on the wing for the bulk of the last year, and although he is nowhere near the form of a couple of seasons ago, he's done fine.

Both Ramsey and the Ox are very frustrating with their decision making, but I give them a little bit of credit because they both manage to do things the alternatives in their position can't.

03-01-2016 06:13PM

JustTheOne wrote: »

3 goals and 2 assists in 22 games.

That is poor, that's my point yeah he gets into great positions but what good is that if he can't finish.

Giroud and Welbeck get slated for their finishing but Ramsey is absolved.

In the prem it's 3 goals and 1 assist in 16 games, most of which he is playing out of his favoured position. Santi, who is a fantastic player, and gets a lot less grief than Ramsey, has only created 3 assists in 14 games....all played in the middle of the park.

Giroud and Welbeck are also strikers. Ramsey getting slagged for his finishing should be on par with Ozil or Santi. Both of these players are given a lot easier time than Ramsey (for their finishing).

wandatowell · 03-01-2016 06:27PM

Good weekend results-wise it must be said.

brianregan09 · 03-01-2016 06:29PM

Could have done with Chelsea not picking up that win at Palace though

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

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