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Our roads are falling apart

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    #212
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,646 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    end of the road wrote: »
    he isn't driving prices up for everyone else. prices would be rising anyway. if you think prices would stay the same if he and all the rest moved in to the cities i'm not sure you realize how business actually works
    you missed my point. he moved to a part of the country where provision of broadband is going to be much less efficient and more problematic, and is generating engineer callouts as a result, which costs eir money; but he's paying the same for his broadband as someone in a village centre or urban area, which doesn't generate the same level of callouts or material costs such as cabling.


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    #213
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    This is the issue.
    Interchange the word incentive with issue.

    Why live in a modest but sustainable house when you can live in a McMansion and have some else help fund it (those in the modest houses)?


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    #214
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Interchange the word incentive with issue.

    Why live in a modest but sustainable house when you can live in a McMansion and have some else help fund it (those in the modest houses)?

    Plenty of people live in houses entirely funded by other people, not just the road outside. Why not start there?


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    #215
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    end of the road wrote: »
    whats wrong with that? they want to make a few quid. good old market forces
    If you want the market to decide then abolish all planning controls. Your farmer neighbour could sell the land next to your house to a rendering plant and make your house worthless over night. You see, planning control benefits you too, though I'm guessing you don't realise it. Without planning control, anyone could build anything they liked on land they owned.

    As for your "can't pay, won't pay" posts, well, if Eir get permission from Comreg you will have no choice but to pay increased line rental or have your service terminated. If Eir get it through, then ESB networks will follow suit and you can either pay the increased charges or allow your electricity service be disconnected. These charges will come eventually as the political importance of one off voters declines (as it is).


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    #216
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    murphaph wrote: »
    As for your "can't pay, won't pay" posts, well, if Eir get permission from Comreg you will have no choice but to pay increased line rental or have your service terminated. If Eir get it through, then ESB networks will follow suit and you can either pay the increased charges or allow your electricity service be disconnected.

    Of course the ESB always had different charges.
    These charges will come eventually as the political importance of one off voters declines (as it is).

    What a charming political philosophy. Get a minority as soon as you can, once you get their numbers in decline you can drive them to extinction.


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    #217
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Charles Babbage wrote: »

    What a charming political philosophy. Get a minority as soon as you can, once you get their numbers in decline you can drive them to extinction.
    Politicians have always looked after their own first then the people who will give then the most votes, nothing new there, but when it comes to crappy rural roads the urban politicians don't care.


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    #218
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    FrStone wrote: »
    Not really, the UK has had a disastrous housing policy which proves it doesn't work. Most dual income households are priced out of living in London.
    But they can easily afford to live in Manhattan? Your assertion that the UK is a bad comparison but the US is a reasonable one still holds no water.
    FrStone wrote: »
    It doesn't matter - most of the roads are built and have to be maintained to deal with todays traffic.
    Only because we have allowed the suburbanisation of the countryside. That process can be gradually reversed with proper planning controls (complete ban on any further one off housing as is the status quo in GB and any civilised western European country I can think of) and a gradual introduction of charging a realistic figure for those wishing to live like that.
    FrStone wrote: »
    There are very few small boreens that are only used by residents left in rural areas. Where they do exist the council will only slap a bit of tarmac over potholes every few years at minimum cost.
    You'd be amazed how much these repairs actually cost and the once in a lifetime resurfacing of one of these boreens costs hundreds of thousands, easily the price of the houses themselves if the cost was actually divided up among the residents.
    FrStone wrote: »
    The only subsidy I ever got for living in the country side was broadband and I'd have much preferred if I had the option to pay for that in full myself - then I'd have gotten it in a timely fashion.

    Electricity was always passing alongside my road, as was the phoneline. I have my own well and septic tank.
    You are receiving a hidden subsidy every day, The cost of delivering your infrastructure is much higher than in urban areas. Obviously electricity wasn't "always" passing along the road and obviously it requires maintenance, or are your overhead supply lines not affected by wear and tear or storm damage? In urban areas this stuff can cost effectively be put underground and shielded from the elements. Cheaper to install per household and cheaper to maintain full stop. Yours costs more but you only pay a token sum extra, so you are being subsidised by the urban customers, much as this may not sit well with you.


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    #219
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Of course the ESB always had different charges.

    What a charming political philosophy. Get a minority as soon as you can, once you get their numbers in decline you can drive them to extinction.
    Token charges from the ESB, not a true reflection of the increased cost of installing and maintaining supplies to one off properties.

    One off dwellers are not some ethnic minority. They are just fellow citizens who have made a particular lifestyle choice. If the true cos of that lifestyle was to be paid by those citizens, the vast majority wouldn't make those choices.


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    #220
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    murphaph wrote: »
    You are receiving a hidden subsidy every day, The cost of delivering your infrastructure is much higher than in urban areas. Obviously electricity wasn't "always" passing along the road and obviously it requires maintenance, or are your overhead supply lines not affected by wear and tear or storm damage? In urban areas this stuff can cost effectively be put underground and shielded from the elements. Cheaper to install per household and cheaper to maintain full stop. Yours costs more but you only pay a token sum extra, so you are being subsidised by the urban customers, much as this may not sit well with you.

    The present arrangements for electricity have been in place for 70 years, it doesn't seem to be wrecking the country.


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    #221
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    The present arrangements for electricity have been in place for 70 years, it doesn't seem to be wrecking the country.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-most-expensive-electricity-1720898-Oct2014/


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    #222
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    murphaph wrote: »
    One off dwellers are not some ethnic minority.

    They clearly have a different, distinctly Irish, culture which you wish to exterminate.
    They are just fellow citizens who have made a particular lifestyle choice. If the true cos of that lifestyle was to be paid by those citizens, the vast majority wouldn't make those choices.

    A bit like Itinerants, perhaps. Why not start with charging them the full cost of their lifestyle and not using public money to provide special facilities with caravan parking bays and the like which cost twice the normal. If you wish to ensure that everyone pays a variable cost then it would seem to make sense to start with groups whose contribution is smallest relative to the expenditure required.


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    #223
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    murphaph wrote: »
    a gradual introduction of charging a realistic figure for those wishing to live like that.

    we all ready pay more then a realistic figure for the services we get. the fundamentalist bully boy discriminatory nonsense been peddled in this thread is something that must be stopped from gaining any traction
    murphaph wrote: »
    You'd be amazed how much these repairs actually cost and the once in a lifetime resurfacing of one of these boreens costs hundreds of thousands, easily the price of the houses themselves if the cost was actually divided up among the residents.

    gway oul that. a few quid to implement a long lasting surface out of my taxes is nothing. you know, the taxes i pay in exchange for services.
    murphaph wrote: »
    You are receiving a hidden subsidy every day

    so are we all. thats just life. its the way the money go round that is called tax works.
    murphaph wrote: »
    The cost of delivering your infrastructure is much higher than in urban areas.

    so be it
    murphaph wrote: »
    Obviously electricity wasn't "always" passing along the road

    well, long before i was born it has been.
    murphaph wrote: »
    obviously it requires maintenance, or are your overhead supply lines not affected by wear and tear or storm damage? In urban areas this stuff can cost effectively be put underground and shielded from the elements. Cheaper to install per household and cheaper to maintain full stop. Yours costs more but you only pay a token sum extra, so you are being subsidised by the urban customers, much as this may not sit well with you.

    not bothered. i won't be screwed for it though.
    murphaph wrote: »
    Token charges from the ESB, not a true reflection of the increased cost of installing and maintaining supplies to one off properties.

    who cares. seriously. why are you losing sleep over this nonsense. who actually pays the true cost of all their services. nobody.
    murphaph wrote: »
    One off dwellers are not some ethnic minority. They are just fellow citizens who have made a particular lifestyle choice. If the true cos of that lifestyle was to be paid by those citizens, the vast majority wouldn't make those choices.

    as may be, but they have and are entitled to do so. suggesting bully boy tactics to screw them and to make their properties worthless is just ridiculous. people live in the country. nobody pays the full cost for all the services they use. its life.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #224
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    end of the road wrote: »
    nobody pays the full cost for all the services they use. its life.
    Basic maths says that some people do pay the full cost of their services and then go on to subsidise those that don't.


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    #225
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    They clearly have a different, distinctly Irish, culture which you wish to exterminate.
    Tell me a little bit about this culture. Explain how the person living in the one off 1km from the small village is different to the person living inside the village?

    Does a German blow in living in a one off in West Cork also have this distinctly Irish culture?


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    #226
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    murphaph wrote: »
    Basic maths says that some people do pay the full cost of their services and then go on to subsidise those that don't.

    Well I am clearly in the first category.


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    #227
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,261 ✭✭✭markpb


    Charles Babbage wrote:
    Well I am clearly in the first category.


    Clearly?


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    #228
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Well I am clearly in the first category.
    ok


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    #229
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,549 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Great debate and a real eye opener. Does anyone reckon the disparity will be fixed? Will the one off house owners ever be forced to pay their way or will they continue to be compensated?

    It would be nice to see more money going back to the towns and cities. The homeless issue needs to be dealt with.


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    #230
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Great debate and a real eye opener. Does anyone reckon the disparity will be fixed? Will the one off house owners ever be forced to pay their way or will they continue to be compensated?

    It would be nice to see more money going back to the towns and cities. The homeless issue needs to be dealt with.

    And I suppose there is no connection between there being a lot of homeless in Dublin and attempts to drive people out of other parts of the country?


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    #231
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,549 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    And I suppose there is no connection between there being a lot of homeless in Dublin and attempts to drive people out of other parts of the country?

    Are there people being driven out of parts of the country now?


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    #232
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    And I suppose there is no connection between there being a lot of homeless in Dublin and attempts to drive people out of other parts of the country?
    Lol. To hell or to Dublin!


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    #233
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Great debate and a real eye opener. Does anyone reckon the disparity will be fixed? Will the one off house owners ever be forced to pay their way or will they continue to be compensated?

    we pay our way. i'm certainly not being compensated for anything. maybe others are. don't know or care either way as i'm certainly not.
    John_Rambo wrote: »
    It would be nice to see more money going back to the towns and cities.

    well, they can collectively work more and harder and eventually they will have more money. but it won't be at the expence of screwing me with nonsense bully boy charges when i all ready pay enough.
    John_Rambo wrote: »
    The homeless issue needs to be dealt with.

    ah, the homeless. was wondering when they would get a mention. seems to be the go to issue for to justify whatever agenda.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #234
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Here's a map from the Irish Times.

    If you're in an area marked in Red you are not covering the costs of your area and are relying on those in Green to pay some of the cost for you.

    image.png


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    #235
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Here's a map from the Irish Times.

    If you're in an area marked in Red you are not covering the costs of your area and are relying on those in Green to pay some of the cost for you.
    i'm not sure your getting this. most people aren't bothered. unless you are at the highist rate of tax chances are there are services your not covering the full cost of. its life. no point losing sleep over it, you won't see the money either way. once the tax man gets hold of it out of your wages its gone

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #236
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    n97 mini wrote: »
    If you want to carry on with the Paisleyite "I already pay enough, not a penny more, no surrender" line but live in one of the areas marked in red, you're only making yourself look silly.
    believe me, i'm not.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #237
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    If you want to carry on with the Paisleyite "I already pay enough, not a penny more, no surrender" line but live in one of the areas marked in red, you're only making yourself look silly.

    Myself and others are done arguing with you as you don't listen to fact or reason.


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    #238
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,549 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    end of the road wrote: »
    i'm not sure your getting this. most people aren't bothered. unless you are at the highist rate of tax chances are there are services your not covering the full cost of. its life. no point losing sleep over it, you won't see the money either way. once the tax man gets hold of it out of your wages its gone

    I think you're bothered. You're protesting too much, you know you're being subsidised and you're terrified your compo might come to an end.


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    #239
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    I think you're bothered. You're protesting too much, you know you're being subsidised and you're terrified your compo might come to an end.
    i'm not worried at all, i don't get compo so compo ending for others makes no difference to me.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #240
    Banjoxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Banjoxed


    n97 mini wrote: »
    If you want to carry on with the Paisleyite "I already pay enough, not a penny more, no surrender" line but live in one of the areas marked in red, you're only making yourself look silly.

    Myself and others are done arguing with you as you don't listen to fact or reason.

    Bit of a contradiction there n97 mini. If you were done arguing you wouldn't be replying to end of the road at all

    :D


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    #241
    n97 mini
    Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    Banjoxed wrote: »
    Bit of a contradiction there n97 mini. If you were done arguing you wouldn't be replying to end of the road at all

    :D

    Self fulfilling prophecy right there.


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