Our roads are falling apart

GM228

From today's Independent:-

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/many-of-our-busiest-roads-are-falling-apart-study-34317425.html

Almost half of the country's busiest roads are in need of urgent repairs, with some in such poor condition they are officially classed as "virtually undriveable".

An analysis of roads controlled by local authorities shows that almost 13,000km - or 13pc of the entire total network - suffers from "structural distress" which ranges from extensive potholes, surfaces which are disintegrating and cracking and severe rutting, where grooves are worn into the surface from extensive use.

DO NOT QUOTE FULL ARTICLES -- MOD

Atlantic Dawn

The country has too many roads for its size, too many one off houses that are not sustainable with the tiny property tax collected to maintain them.

eezipc

Roads are quite atrocious now, especially with all the recent floods. I drive regularly between Roscommon and Galway and there are alot of new holes in the roads.
Also, it seems to me that alot of "newer" roads were not designed very well. For example, the small bypass in Tuam (between the Dunmore road and Claremorris road) is relatively new and that was under water for a long time. Also, the end of the bus lane in Claregalway was flooded for a long time as well. Surely when designing roads, drainage should be taken into account.

PCeeeee

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has too many roads for its size, too many one off houses that are not sustainable with the tiny property tax collected to maintain them.

Is the property tax used to maintain the roads?

GM228

PCeeeee wrote: »

Is the property tax used to maintain the roads?

From the GCC Website (I think all councils use it for similar purposes):-

http://www.galwaycity.ie/local-property-tax-information/#topSearch

This money contributes towards the cost of providing a range of local Council services including housing services, road maintenance, public lighting, fire services, libraries, recreation and amenity facilities, arts and cultural supports, litter management and street cleaning, supporting community initiatives and economic development.

PCeeeee

GM228 wrote: »

From the GCC Website (I think all councils use it for similar purposes):-

http://www.galwaycity.ie/local-property-tax-information/#topSearch

Thank you GM228, that is frankly bizarre, given the extraordinary sums collected in from the 'motorist'. The motor tax, the fuel excise and VRT.

n97 mini

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The country has too many roads for its size, too many one off houses that are not sustainable with the tiny property tax collected to maintain them.

Exactly, we've too many roads. We've six times per person what Britain has. That's a lot of road to be paid for.

PCeeeee

n97 mini wrote: »

Exactly, we've too many roads. We've six times per person what Britain has. That's a lot of road to be paid for.

I wonder is a comparison to a vastly more populous territory entirely valid? I wonder how stand in comparison to a similarly populated country?

Del2005

PCeeeee wrote: »

Thank you GM228, that is frankly bizarre, given the extraordinary sums collected in from the 'motorist'. The motor tax, the fuel excise and VRT.

Motor tax, or any other tax paid by motorists, never funded the roads. Well it was supposed to years ago when it was called road tax to fund local councils, but now it goes into the big pool and gets squandered on stuff like hospitals and schools.

Stealthfins

Don't believe the bullisht about needing money from the EU for our roads.
All the chipping comes from our own limestone quarries.
As well as that,there is machines now which can basically churn up the old tarmac and recycle it back into the roads.
It goes in all mushed up,mixed with tar and relayed evenly again.
Steam rolled and voila.....

marketty

Del2005 wrote:

Motor tax, or any other tax paid by motorists, never funded the roads. Well it was supposed to years ago when it was called road tax to fund local councils, but now it goes into the big pool and gets squandered on stuff like hospitals and schools.

Motor tax was supposed to pay for water...I'll get my coat...

ezra_pound

PCeeeee wrote: »

Thank you GM228, that is frankly bizarre, given the extraordinary sums collected in from the 'motorist'. The motor tax, the fuel excise and VRT.

You must be joking!

ezra_pound

Del2005 wrote: »

Motor tax, or any other tax paid by motorists, never funded the roads. Well it was supposed to years ago when it was called road tax to fund local councils, but now it goes into the big pool and gets squandered on stuff like hospitals and schools.

Motor tax along with vrt and other motoring taxes does not come anywhere near providing funding for maintaining roads.

lisasimpson

The dunnkettle roundabout surface is in shocking condition at the moment esp when exiting the tunnel..id say most down to the volume of traffic is dealing with

anothernight

n97 mini wrote: »

Exactly, we've too many roads. We've six times per person what Britain has. That's a lot of road to be paid for.

Not disagreeing with you or anything, but does it not make more sense to look at kilometres per country area? Or kilometres per total distance between urban centres?

If you have two cities with a very small population in each and a road connecting them, you'll still need the same length of road as if both cities have very large populations, so I don't think km/population is a good indicator tbh.

lisasimpson

two factors adding to this problem 1. lack of a public transport options for the large urban centres. 2.the lack of one main waterways authority to maintain our river systems if the rivers were cleaned and looked after properly the water would drain off the roads properly once the drains are cleared and open

enricoh

The budget for infrastructure was slashed when the tiger calved and its coming home to roost now.
Politicians much prefer slashing spending on roads than PS wages n the dole coz there will be no union reps or poverty quango guy on rte moaning about it. Its basicallya hasslefree way of cutting spending

Banjoxed

What odds that bit of journalism came on foot of a press release from someone selling aggregate?

Carawaystick

lisasimpson wrote: »

2.the lack of one main waterways authority to maintain our river systems if the rivers were cleaned and looked after properly the water would drain off the roads properly once the drains are cleared and open

The tii took central control of the n40 and tunnel and its run by Cowboys since, so central control is no panacea

Macy0161

A lot of it comes down to the road network never being properly constructed in the first place - no proper base layers, just tarmac over the existing dirt/ stone road.

For what it's worth, I was out on the bike this afternoon, and the deterioration in the road surfaces since autumn is quite shocking - I know its been wet, but there hasn't been any frost of note yet which tends to do the real damage.

Carawaystick

New year's resolution.
not to read or respond to the indo.
It's like the daily mail, with even lower standards.

This seems to be saying boreens are in poor condition.
If Bears lived here still, they'd be defecating in areas with lots of trees.

CJhaughey

Macy0161 wrote: »

A lot of it comes down to the road network never being properly constructed in the first place - no proper base layers, just tarmac over the existing dirt/ stone road.

For what it's worth, I was out on the bike this afternoon, and the deterioration in the road surfaces since autumn is quite shocking - I know its been wet, but there hasn't been any frost of note yet which tends to do the real damage.

Its hydraulic pressure that causes most damage, frost is one kind but heavy traffic forces water into the tarmac pores and eventually breaks them up and the road comes apart, Fracking our own roads is what is is.

Del2005

marketty wrote: »

Motor tax was supposed to pay for water...I'll get my coat...

Road tax was supposed to fund local councils, who supplied water, Motor tax always went to central government to be doled out as they see fit.

Dricmeister

Some major roads around Dublin are in appalling condition. If one's car is damaged by a large pothole, does one have any comeback? Thanks.

Del2005

Dricmeister wrote: »

Some major roads around Dublin are in appalling condition. If one's car is damaged by a large pothole, does one have any comeback? Thanks.

Once the pothole has already been reported you can claim compensation. The councils are usually fairly good at compensating, maybe because it's cheaper than repairing the actual road.

hognef

anothernight wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you or anything, but does it not make more sense to look at kilometres per country area? Or kilometres per total distance between urban centres?

If you have two cities with a very small population in each and a road connecting them, you'll still need the same length of road as if both cities have very large populations, so I don't think km/population is a good indicator tbh.

Comparison with a selection of similarly-populated countries (note: paved roads only):

Country	     Paved road (km)  Pop. (mill)  Area (sq.km)  Road/1000 pop  Road/area
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ireland      96036            4.595         84421        20.9           1.14
Denmark      73929            5.614         43094        13.2           1.72
Norway       75754            5.084        385178        14.9            .20
Switzerland  71464            8.081         41285         8.8           1.73

Road lengths (2014) obtained from https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2085.html; population and surface area (both 2013) from Google.

Banjoxed

Carawaystick wrote: »

New year's resolution.
not to read or respond to the indo.
It's like the daily mail, with even lower standards.

This seems to be saying boreens are in poor condition.
If Bears lived here still, they'd be defecating in areas with lots of trees.

In other shock news, Pope found to be a Catholic

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

n97 mini

anothernight wrote: »

Not disagreeing with you or anything, but does it not make more sense to look at kilometres per country area? Or kilometres per total distance between urban centres?

If you have two cities with a very small population in each and a road connecting them, you'll still need the same length of road as if both cities have very large populations, so I don't think km/population is a good indicator tbh.

When people have to pay for roads, it's the only comparison that's relevant. For every 1km a citizen has to pay for in the UK, an Irish citizen has to pay for 6km.

jimmycrackcorm

There's something very wrong about where money is allocated and by whom. I remember a few years back that the Letterkenny dual carriageway was redone despite nothing wrong simply because of some structural funding that would not be available otherwise.

Recently close to my home a number of roundabouts and junctions were redone again with nothing wrong with them. In fact the roundabouts were narrowed to a single lane so much so that buses have to overlap them.

The prioritization seems to be missing.

Dr_Colossus

A lot of the problems with the current state of the roads can also be attributed to the councils themselves and the inexcusable attempts at repairing them. A lump of tar patted down with the back of a shovel leaving a dangerously uneven surface doesn't constitute a repair job but to most councils this suffices.

Also take for instance one of the worst surfaces in Dublin, the Old Cabra Road. This was finally resurfaced earlier this year and a fine job was made of it but not more than two weeks after there was a channel dug across the newly surfaced finish and a mound much higher than the existing surface left in it's place. It's practically yet another speed bump an a road already littered with them.

The council and their inept workers have a lot to answer for.