When did the Irish stop speaking Irish?

Paramite Pie · 02-01-2016 05:59AM

BoatMad wrote: »

The big issue was the need to have it to gain entry into university or in fact to actually pass your exam

when the college I was applying to , removed the compulsion to have irish in 1978, I never turned up at the irish exam. !!

but i did learn more french in two years then irish in ten , so that says something

And I'd like to see that changed - immediately but that's the University that forces that (or else some wouldn't drop if it was Government policy).

I had to pass a Foreign Language for a course that had no language module. Weird but at least I enjoyed French.

Nowadays only National University of Ireland requires a pass in Irish. If only the change was quicker though!

BoatMad wrote: »

we used to have to stand for our primary class irish lessons, all I remember was the pain in me feet

Then we used to listen to a half hour of BBC schools , go figure

Did you walk barefoot in six foot of snow as well? As horrible as that was, it's far from the experience now.

Which leaves me to believe that your opinion on mandatory Irish is coming from a very, very different place and - this may sound harsh - a place that's no longer relevant because that's not how we learn it nowadays.

We watched slideshows, sang stupid songs and poorly animated videos of clock eating space monsters. While seated. Nowadays kids learn pop songs translated as gaeilge like the Script and other stuff I saw on youtube. Also while seated. It's not the horror show it once was.

Edgarfrndly · 02-01-2016 06:20AM

The Irish language stopped being the majority language of Ireland sometime around the end of the 1700's to the early 1800's, depending on who's statistics you reference.

Whatever the case may be, after the famine - it was certainly no longer the majority language, as Irish speaking regions were hit harder than most, due to being isolated and poorer regions of the country. The removal of the language from the national schools during that period, certainly didn't help either.

Some people saw the English language as the language of opportunity, allowing them to better position themselves for work abroad in England or the US.

The future of the language today rests outside of An Ghaeltacht. The purity of the language may be preserved there, but the children of tomorrow will speak Béarla.

The only way it will truly survive is they change that god-awful curriculum, and add a spoken Irish class to allow children to immerse themselves in the language. Anyone, irrespective of how good they are at learning languages can become proficient in the Irish language in 2 years. But only if immersion is part of their acquisition process. It's not a difficult language to learn.

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 08:37AM

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

The Irish language stopped being the majority language of Ireland sometime around the end of the 1700's to the early 1800's, depending on who's statistics you reference.

Whatever the case may be, after the famine - it was certainly no longer the majority language, as Irish speaking regions were hit harder than most, due to being isolated and poorer regions of the country. The removal of the language from the national schools during that period, certainly didn't help either.

Some people saw the English language as the language of opportunity, allowing them to better position themselves for work abroad in England or the US.

The future of the language today rests outside of An Ghaeltacht. The purity of the language may be preserved there, but the children of tomorrow will speak Béarla.

The only way it will truly survive is they change that god-awful curriculum, and add a spoken Irish class to allow children to immerse themselves in the language. Anyone, irrespective of how good they are at learning languages can become proficient in the Irish language in 2 years. But only if immersion is part of their acquisition process. It's not a difficult language to learn.

It's definitely more difficult to learn than any of the Romance or Germanic languages, and it doesn't help when we have people claiming to be fluent who's Irish is no better than an average 12 year old's English.

Caoimhgh1n · 02-01-2016 12:45PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's definitely more difficult to learn than any of the Romance or Germanic languages, and it doesn't help when we have people claiming to be fluent who's Irish is no better than an average 12 year old's English.

What is wrong with a 12 year old's English? Some 12 year old's speak better than people in their 30's.

I don't see how it's harder to learn. It's easier in some ways, for me personally. Can you tell me why it is harder and give me some factual evidence?

Father Hernandez · 02-01-2016 12:49PM

It'd be an awful shame to lose our Irish language IMO. Only time I seem to speak it though is when I'm abroad !

Mesrine65 · 02-01-2016 12:56PM

I would love to speak Gaeilge but unfortunately when inquiring about beginners lessons, there were very few resources & Conradh Na Gaeilge was expensive at €180 for 10 x 1 hour lessons.

If they want our national language to survive their should be a national, government sponsored campaign launched through the library system for example, where it isn't cost prohibitive to the average person wanting to learn.

Orangebrigade · 02-01-2016 01:01PM

Hotei wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what's your view on the Ulster-Scots "language"?

I don't think Ulster Scots is state funded in Northern Ireland. I stand to be corrected on that. But if it is, it shouldn't be. It doesn't need to be as it is cultural and a hobby for people and in terms of employment, not relevant.

Irish people being forced to learn Irish because they are told it makes you proper Irish basically.

Caoimhgh1n · 02-01-2016 01:05PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

I would love to speak Gaeilge but unfortunately when inquiring about beginners lessons, there were very few resources & Conradh Na Gaeilge was expensive at €180 for 10 x 1 hour lessons.

If they want our national language to survive their should be a national, government sponsored campaign launched through the library system for example, where it isn't cost prohibitive to the average person wanting to learn.

I am not sure where you are located, but if you check your local council's website, there is usually a list of the courses available in your locality.

Berserker · 02-01-2016 01:58PM

Mesrine65 wrote: »

If they want our national language to survive their should be a national, government sponsored campaign launched through the library system for example, where it isn't cost prohibitive to the average person wanting to learn.

On top of all the media coverage it gets from our national broadcaster?

smurgen · 02-01-2016 02:15PM

Still speak irish as does my sister and half our friends.we all went to irish school and have grown proud of it as we got older.

smurgen · 02-01-2016 02:18PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's definitely more difficult to learn than any of the Romance or Germanic languages, and it doesn't help when we have people claiming to be fluent who's Irish is no better than an average 12 year old's English.

If you think irish is more difficult to learn than germanic languages you don't know what you're talking about.as a fluent irish speaker for almost 15 years now it most definitely is not.I tried to learn other languages.German and french.french was not too bad as I lived in Geneva and was surrounded by it.German was a completly different story however.found it almost impossible.

Mesrine65 · 02-01-2016 02:38PM

Berserker wrote: »

On top of all the media coverage it gets from our national broadcaster?

Media coverage isn't teaching Gaeilge to the uninitiated though, is it?

freedominacup · 02-01-2016 03:04PM

masti123 wrote: »

Pádraig Pearse had a deep interest in the Irish Language and was involved in the Gaelic revival, I'm unsure about the rest of them.
Collins had some interesting views on the Irish language, this is what he wrote in his book:

I wonder what he'd make of Fine Gael's policy on the Irish language :rolleyes:

I know if that quote is accurate my estimation of Collins has plummeted.

02-01-2016 03:18PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

What is wrong with a 12 year old's English? Some 12 year old's speak better than people in their 30's.

I don't see how it's harder to learn. It's easier in some ways, for me personally. Can you tell me why it is harder and ?

I suspect the English of a 12-year-old is considerably better than the English of the average "Speak English, Paddy!" yob in all their uncouthness here. Truly, their English is atrocious. They've no respect for the nuances of their own language so it explains everything about their hostility to Irish. Furthermore, this crack of their being great at French etc is entertaining when it's clear they're struggling to master, at least, the written element of their own native language of English.

Anybody who loves English (or any language) would make it a matter of pride to write it well. But that would, of course, entail work and dedication. Far easier to attempt to put down another language and its speakers when they're struggling to master their own single language.

darkpagandeath · 02-01-2016 03:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect the English of a 12-year-old is considerably better than the English of the average "Speak English, Paddy!" yob in all their uncouthness here. Truly, their English is atrocious. They've no respect for the nuances of their own language so it explains everything about their hostility to Irish. Furthermore, this crack of their being great at French etc is entertaining when it's clear they're struggling to master, at least, the written element of their own native language of English.

Anybody who loves English (or any language) would make it a matter of pride to write it well. But that would, of course, entail work and dedication. Far easier to attempt to put down another language and its speakers when they're struggling to master their own single language.

1 out of 10...

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 03:19PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

What is wrong with a 12 year old's English? Some 12 year old's speak better than people in their 30's.

I don't see how it's harder to learn. It's easier in some ways, for me personally. Can you tell me why it is harder and give me some factual evidence?

The average 12 year old could barely read a newspaper.

smurgen wrote: »

If you think irish is more difficult to learn than germanic languages you don't know what you're talking about.as a fluent irish speaker for almost 15 years now it most definitely is not.I tried to learn other languages.German and french.french was not too bad as I lived in Geneva and was surrounded by it.German was a completly different story however.found it almost impossible.

If you really think that's the case I suggest maybe your Irish is not as good as you think it is.

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect the English of a 12-year-old is considerably better than the English of the average "Speak English, Paddy!" yob in all their uncouthness here. Truly, their English is atrocious. They've no respect for the nuances of their own language so it explains everything about their hostility to Irish. Furthermore, this crack of their being great at French etc is entertaining when it's clear they're struggling to master, at least, the written element of their own native language of English.

Anybody who loves English (or any language) would make it a matter of pride to write it well. But that would, of course, entail work and dedication. Far easier to attempt to put down another language and its speakers when they're struggling to master their own single language.

http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/images/neckbeard-lighter-640x533.jpg

Caoimhgh1n · 02-01-2016 03:23PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The average 12 year old could barely read a newspaper.

Well, I must now a lot of above average people who are 12.

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 03:24PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

Well, I must now a lot of above average people who are 12.

Or you have a low standard of what constitutes a newspaper.

Caoimhgh1n · 02-01-2016 03:26PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Or you have a low standard of what constitutes a newspaper.

I meant know before by the way..

Why are you so obsessed with Newspapers?

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 03:31PM

Caoimhgh1n wrote: »

I meant know before by the way..

Why are you so obsessed with Newspapers?

I know. What gave you the impression I didn't?

Nothing in particular, but they are a good way of measuring a person's comprehension development. While I would expect an average 12 year old to read an article from the Sun. I would expect them to struggle with the Economist or the Financial Times.

02-01-2016 03:38PM

freedominacup wrote: »

I know if that quote is accurate my estimation of Collins has plummeted.

Collins was, of course, correct. As if an independent Ireland that is as English as Sussex is worth having. In a western Europe where we share largely the same social and political rights, there are two possible reasons for a separate state: first, a new more socially advanced state is being created; second, a cultural distinctiveness is being protected or promoted by the state.

Without Irish in particular and cultural distinctiveness in general we might as well be honest, call it a day for a separate Irish state, put the Union Jack back on government buildings and become British. At least prices will be cheaper, taxes lower and public services higher because of the greater economies of scale a bigger state offers. This charade of aping English culture, hating Irish culture and then claiming to have an "Irish" identity is a dishonesty that does nobody any favours.

smurgen · 02-01-2016 03:46PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

The average 12 year old could barely read a newspaper.

If you really think that's the case I suggest maybe your Irish is not as good as you think it is.

http://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/images/neckbeard-lighter-640x533.jpg

I'd argue mine is about the top 5% of regular irish speakers.I got second highest in munster in my junior and A1 in my leaving cert. I went to the only all irish school on the north side of cork city. We done our entire leaving certificate in irish.if you could tell me how to improve my irish further I'm all ears.

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 03:49PM

smurgen wrote: »

I'd argue mine is about the top 5% of regular irish speakers.I got second highest in munster in my junior and A1 in my leaving cert. I went to the only all irish school on the north side of cork city. We done our entire leaving certificate in irish.if you could tell me how to improve my irish further I'm all ears.

Then quite frankly I cannot understand why you would find German a harder language to learn. The grammar makes much more intuitive sense for an English speaker and the vocab is quite similar.

mackerski · 02-01-2016 03:50PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Without Irish in particular and cultural distinctiveness in general we might as well be honest, call it a day for a separate Irish state, put the Union Jack back on government buildings and become British.

The 1930s are back the way you came, TBH. Let's examine for a moment the relationship between spoken languages and the number of sovereign states they can be spoken in natively, without people finding it overly odd. And I'm sure to leave plenty out, but just by way of getting us started:

German: Germany, Luxembourg, Austria, Belgium, Italy, Switzerland
French: France, Belgium, Switzerland, Andorra, Luxembourg
Dutch: Netherlands, Belgium
Spanish: Spain, most of South and Central America, much of USA

And of course, our own language of English:

All the bits of the UK, Channel Islands, Isle of Man. Ireland, Oz, NZ, USA, South Africa, loads of other places.

So yup, speaking English basically condemns us to being English, eating scones and reading the Daily Mail.

mackerski · 02-01-2016 03:53PM

smurgen wrote: »

We done our entire leaving certificate in irish.

How's that working out for you?

smurgen · 02-01-2016 03:59PM

mackerski wrote: »

How's that working out for you?

Very good actually.work in one of the world biggest banks as a senior accountant.thankfully I don't get paid for spelling or grammar.I'm more a number cruncher.

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 04:05PM

smurgen wrote: »

Very good actually.work in one of the world biggest banks as a senior accountant.thankfully I don't get paid for spelling or grammar.I'm more a number cruncher.

A man after my own heart, pity you spent so much time learning a dying language.

smurgen · 02-01-2016 04:06PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Then quite frankly I cannot understand why you would find German a harder language to learn. The grammar makes much more intuitive sense for an English speaker and the vocab is quite similar.

I found it easier to learn on an intuitive level.same with French. The German for me was too mechanical.I found the amount of rules in German difficult to understand. There's abstract rules in french and Irish with regards to the grammar that are unusual to the extent that they were easier to learn e.g aimsir ghnáthcaithe.

Iwasfrozen · 02-01-2016 04:09PM

smurgen wrote: »

I found it easier to learn on an intuitive level.same with French. The German for me was too mechanical.I found the amount of rules in German difficult to understand. There's abstract rules in french and Irish with regards to the grammar that are unusual to the extent that they were easier to learn e.g aimsir ghnáthcaithe.

Hm, I guess I prefer the mechanical nature. Having said that I'm currently learning Spanish, I don't have much experience with French but I believe the grammar is similar? I find Spanish grammar much more intuitive than Irish.

If only I could get that blasted thrilled "R" correct.

smurgen · 02-01-2016 04:10PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A man after my own heart, pity you spent so much time learning a dying language.

One thing I've learned if I've learned anything is that time studying isn't time wasted.like how people give out about people studying arts in college. If we were to study from an early age on specific subjects then I think we leave ourselves open to failure.I think it's vital to have a diverse range of subjects.even if I never used irish to earn money there's probably transferable skills I picked up and used elsewhere.

When did the Irish stop speaking Irish?

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