Peyton Manning Accused of HGH Use

Jolly Red Giant · 31-12-2015 06:12PM

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think those things are related though, I think Kubiak's only thoughts are about winning the next game and he is doing what he feels is best in that regard.

I didn't suggest that they were related.

In my opinion the big story is not that Manning might or might not have taken HGH but that he is now a back-up to a QB who has six starts in the NFL.

Lirange · 31-12-2015 10:01PM

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/on-manning-controversy--expert-says---it-wouldn-t-make-sense--to-use-hgh-in-recovery-234910370.html

Many sports fans believe HGH is a super serum, able to create a stunning metamorphosis of the body. There's not a lot of evidence for that.

In 2008, a study of growth hormone's effects on athletic performance was published in the "Annals of Internal Medicine." The results were hardly a ringing endorsement. "Growth hormone is reported to be extensively used for illicit enhancement of athletic performance, both for its anabolic and endurance effects," wrote the authors. "However, our review of the limited published literature suggests that although growth hormone may alter body composition, it has minimal effect on key athletic performance outcomes and may, in fact, be associated with worsened exercise capacity." In other words, maybe HGH will help you look shredded, and perhaps it can assist with recovery, but it won't necessarily help you improve in your sport.

They should still test for it (HgH) of course, lets there be any doubts. But whether it actually tangibly improves performance seems highly questionable.

Hazys · 01-01-2016 12:26PM

Is someone seriously trying to argue that HGH doesn't make an athlete better?

Lirange · 01-01-2016 05:14PM

Hazys wrote: »

Is someone seriously trying to argue that HGH doesn't make an athlete better?

Scientists that are far more knowledgeable on the subject than you or I have cast doubts on some of the assumptions over it's benefits, yes. And before you ask, no, these are not hacks.

http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=741027

Read and draw your own conclusions. I don't make any claims myself. Studies on HgH are relatively new (last 15 yrs) and the scientific community is just coming to grips with what it actually does in the context of sport performance. But the early evidence emerging seems to suggest that HgH is far less effective than anabolic steroids and other peds that have a long history and have proven their performance efficacy.

None of this is meant to excuse PM or suggest he didn't intend to use HgH for his benefit. I just thought it was interesting (and it is really).

D9Male · 01-01-2016 11:44PM

That relates to athletic performance. I don't think anyone thought HGH would make Peyton a better QB. If he used it, it was surely to help recover from injury and possibly to recover after tough training blocks or matches.

Billy86 · 02-01-2016 12:04AM

D9Male wrote: »

That relates to athletic performance. I don't think anyone thought HGH would make Peyton a better QB. If he used it, it was surely to help recover from injury and possibly to recover after tough training blocks or matches.

Recovering quicker aline though would be doing just that. Part of being an older QB is feeling the hits more, needing to get rid of the ball quicker to avoid that, and using smarts/experience to overcome this. Him hitting the deck early to avoid hits this season is an example of something he could have theoretically been able to avoid if he were benefitting from HGH.

eagle eye · 02-01-2016 12:10AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Recovering quicker aline though would be doing just that. Part of being an older QB is feeling the hits more, needing to get rid of the ball quicker to avoid that, and using smarts/experience to overcome this. Him hitting the deck early to avoid hits this season is an example of something he could have theoretically been able to avoid if he were benefitting from HGH.

Just to be clear I'm not saying that Peyton was taking anything but what you are saying makes no sense. Every QB is going to avoid injury if possible and as you get older you are more aware of that, and when you are older and have had a serious injury you are going to be even more careful that way.

Use of HGH will not avoid injury but it will help you get back to where you were a lot quicker and for some just to recover as they won't heal properly without it.

helimachoptor · 13-01-2016 11:31PM

Al jazeera America is shutting down

eagle eye · 14-01-2016 12:29AM

helimachoptor wrote: »

Al jazeera America is shutting down

Wow Peyton has some power.

Hazys · 14-01-2016 03:24AM

helimachoptor wrote: »

Al jazeera America is shutting down

Its kinda weird that a channel shutting down in US because of lack of viewers somehow makes the HGH report less valid.

Al Jeezera is a huge network worldwide and the guys who made the report work for the parent company not the TV channel. The journalism department in the USA will operate as usual.

helimachoptor · 14-01-2016 09:28AM

Hazys wrote: »

Its kinda weird that a channel shutting down in US because of lack of viewers somehow makes the HGH report less valid.

Al Jeezera is a huge network worldwide and the guys who made the report work for the parent company not the TV channel. The journalism department in the USA will operate as usual.

Agree but some will perceive that's the case

StringerBell · 14-01-2016 10:56AM

The lengths they go to to protect the Golden Boy is unbelievable!

LuckyLloyd · 14-01-2016 11:19AM

StringerBell wrote: »

The lengths they go to to protect the Golden Boy is unbelievable!

Meh, HGH use has to be rampant across the league. I really don't see what is to be gained by scapegoating Manning above anyone else. It's standard sport journalist fairytale telling (only the few cheat).

adrian522 · 14-01-2016 11:33AM

The fact that everybody is doing it is irrelevant, if journalists ignore this then it goes unreported, the fact that it is a high profile player all the better.

The question is do we want cheating to be tolerated or not?

Even now the test they are using for HGH will only return a positive if HGH was used in the previous 2 hours. There is a much more rigorous test but they don't use it. Presumably for fear of what they will find out.

LuckyLloyd · 14-01-2016 11:38AM

adrian522 wrote: »

The fact that everybody is doing it is irrelevant, if journalists ignore this then it goes unreported, the fact that it is a high profile player all the better.

The question is do we want cheating to be tolerated or not?

Even now the test they are using for HGH will only return a positive if HGH was used in the previous 2 hours. There is a much more rigorous test but they don't use it. Presumably for fear of what they will find out.

Yes. You don't want a clean NFL. You like being entertained. You like the best players in the league spending as much time on the field as possible in a brutal sport. As I said earlier in this thread, in my opinion professional athletes recovering from major injury should be using HGH.

adrian522 · 14-01-2016 12:13PM

Well, that is where you and I will disagree. It is dangerous and against the rules.

Personally I don't want to be entertained by players breaking the rules and taking unnecessary risks.

If we were to follow your lead then HGH should be legal, but it is not. So what the journalists are dong is correct, they spot wrongdoing and they bring it to light.

Personally I think a whole load of things the NFL use to get players out on the field is wrong and should not be used, and is leading to more and more injuries, and damaging health of players in the long term.

But HGH is banned by the NFL and if players are using it they should be called out on it and if it is proven they should be banned. For years not games.

14-01-2016 12:23PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes. You don't want a clean NFL. You like being entertained. You like the best players in the league spending as much time on the field as possible in a brutal sport. As I said earlier in this thread, in my opinion professional athletes recovering from major injury should be using HGH.

There is a reason its banned it causes any dormant cancer cells to go crazy

eagle eye · 14-01-2016 01:04PM

As it turns out Al Jeezera are shutting down their TV channel but are actually intending to increase their presence in the US by pumping the money wasted on a TV channel into their digital presence in the US.

Like most people get their news online these days so it's a sound business decision by them.

jack presley · 14-01-2016 01:08PM

eagle eye wrote: »

As it turns out Al Jeezera are shutting down their TV channel but are actually intending to increase their presence in the US by pumping the money wasted on a TV channel into their digital presence in the US.

Like most people get their news online these days so it's a sound business decision by them.

Kind of has a Spinal Tap "their appeal is becoming more selective" feel about it.

LuckyLloyd · 14-01-2016 02:09PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Well, that is where you and I will disagree. It is dangerous and against the rules.

Personally I don't want to be entertained by players breaking the rules and taking unnecessary risks.

If we were to follow your lead then HGH should be legal, but it is not. So what the journalists are dong is correct, they spot wrongdoing and they bring it to light.

Personally I think a whole load of things the NFL use to get players out on the field is wrong and should not be used, and is leading to more and more injuries, and damaging health of players in the long term.

But HGH is banned by the NFL and if players are using it they should be called out on it and if it is proven they should be banned. For years not games.

Leslie Narrow Schoolmaster wrote: »

There is a reason its banned it causes any dormant cancer cells to go crazy

These are professional athletes choosing to play in the NFL!! I don't think long term health concerns are on their radar tbh.

adrian522 · 14-01-2016 03:09PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

These are professional athletes choosing to play in the NFL!! I don't think long term health concerns are on their radar tbh.

Well it should be on their radar , and it should be on the NFL's radar too. It is banned for a reason.

If you want everyone to use it then take it off the banned list, but don't throw the journalists under the bus for bringing it up.

14-01-2016 03:30PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

These are professional athletes choosing to play in the NFL!! I don't think long term health concerns are on their radar tbh.

Having sore knees in your 60s is very different to having cancer in your 20s

LuckyLloyd · 14-01-2016 03:40PM

adrian522 wrote: »

Well it should be on their radar , and it should be on the NFL's radar too. It is banned for a reason.

If you want everyone to use it then take it off the banned list, but don't throw the journalists under the bus for bringing it up.

Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land on the topic, that's all. The NFL has a purposefully lax PED policy. They use far less complex testing than available and issue minimal bans. Their policy is reasonably pragmatic and fits with a world in which athletes playing maybe the most brutal contact field sport will use every available assistance to get out there on a Sunday.

Leslie Narrow Schoolmaster wrote: »

Having sore knees in your 60s is very different to having cancer in your 20s

I really don't know what to say to that? I'll be needing to see the studies that attribute multiple cases of NFL players in their 20s suffering cancer to HGH use? Moreover, I wish the affects of participation in the NFL were limited to knee pain later in life, but we damn well know that's not the case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_players_with_chronic_traumatic_encephalopathy

Bottom line? The NFL is a brutal yet highly entertaining version of the Coliseum in ancient Rome where players expose themselves to extreme physical risk. And their contracts aren't even guaranteed. If they're not using every available substance they're selling themselves short.

adrian522 · 14-01-2016 03:50PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land on the topic, that's all. The NFL has a purposefully lax PED policy. They use far less complex testing than available and issue minimal bans. Their policy is reasonably pragmatic and fits with a world in which athletes playing maybe the most brutal contact field sport will use every available assistance to get out there on a Sunday.

How does this equate to "Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land"?

Sports journalists are pointing out what is going on (as is their job), against the rules. What is ridiculous is the attitude the NFL and most NFL fans have to performance enhancing drugs.

StringerBell · 14-01-2016 09:47PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, HGH use has to be rampant across the league. I really don't see what is to be gained by scapegoating Manning above anyone else. It's standard sport journalist fairytale telling (only the few cheat).

Surely you got that I was joking?

Hulk Hands · 15-01-2016 03:28AM

StringerBell wrote: »

The lengths they go to to protect the Golden Boy is unbelievable!

Not directed at you as you seem to be messing. Anyway..

Listened to an American based podcast today that was suggesting Manning was unfairly malinged by the general public and media over there. Not given full credit for being the best regular season QB of all time was said, and also ripped apart for post season failings of teams that weren't good enough to be there in the first place. Was put down to him being a lack of an athlete and winning through prep and smarts rather than natural talent, which doesnt endear to the public, and a new era of lazy journalism where it's easier to report that "Manning chokes again" rather than report in depth. 13th best post season QBR of all time, 1 spot behind Brady in 12th. Ive no real opinion on it, other than that it flies in the face of the perception over here of him being protected at every turn

j8wk2feszrnpao · 15-01-2016 09:58AM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Ive no real opinion on it, other than that it flies in the face of the perception over here of him being protected at every turn

One podcast shouldn't dispel someones perception in an age when you can browse websites and the media coverage of an event.

LuckyLloyd · 15-01-2016 02:53PM

adrian522 wrote: »

How does this equate to "Sports journalists are just living in cloud cuckoo land"?

Sports journalists are pointing out what is going on (as is their job), against the rules. What is ridiculous is the attitude the NFL and most NFL fans have to performance enhancing drugs.

How is realism ridiculous? The pretence of clean sport is far more ridiculous imo, in general the NFL and its fans are simply nodding to the realities of what goes into the most entertaining sport in the world - the freak athleticism we love to watch being on show as consistently just wouldn't be possible otherwise.

adrian522 · 15-01-2016 03:34PM

If you want to allow it take it off the banned list then, insulting journalists is certainly not the way to go IMO.

It is ridiculous n the sense that they ban all these substances, then don't test for them and if by some miracle people get caught, they get a two game ban that can be overturned on appeal and they don't even say what they were caught using.

As I said ridiculous.

Billy86 · 15-01-2016 03:43PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How is realism ridiculous? The pretence of clean sport is far more ridiculous imo, in general the NFL and its fans are simply nodding to the realities of what goes into the most entertaining sport in the world - the freak athleticism we love to watch being on show as consistently just wouldn't be possible otherwise.

You're getting young, impressionable teens who in large part come from very poor backgrounds in a country that despite what it markets itself as, offers very limited opportunity for people in such situations. Then you're waiving the potential for millions of dollars (without fully letting them know they'll never see the majority of it) and encouraging them to take drugs that they don't know the side effects of so that they can get an edge physically, or also mentally - allowing them to slam their brains off the walls of their skulls and accelerate severe brain damage in case the hyperactive cancer cells, etc don't get them.

For me, this 'choice' isn't really a fair one to be presenting an individual.

Mind you with technology as it is, and how fast it is accelerating, I think controlled juicing might not be the worst option. That being, regulated steroids & PEDs that have been thoroughly tested and researched so as to completely eliminate/largely minimise side effects (with loud and clear information and warnings provided for any remaining side effects and such), and a zero tolerance approach to any additionals being taken (lifetime bans all 'round type of things, and criminal proceedings for those providing/creating them - which would be much more effective with p*ssed off pharma companies that create the 'regulated' ones throwing their legal team behind it). I'm sure there are people on here with far more knowledge than me regarding medicine etc who might consider than an awful idea, mind! :pac:

Peyton Manning Accused of HGH Use

Comments