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"Man Up" campaign by SafeIreland

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Good to see posters like that but they're pretty badly done with regards to quality. The font looks like it was done in Microsoft paint.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Time for Fresh Thinking on Domestic Violence

    June 4, 2015 Attila L. Vinczer

    http://torontodv.com/2015/06/04/time-for-fresh-thinking-on-domestic-violence/
    Complains about the education that has been given to professionals such as police officers where domestic violence is seen as a male-on-female problem.

    Does anyone know the current situation about what the Gardai and the like are taught either initially in training or as part of ongoing training? I recall hearing a while back (i.e. 5-10 years ago - don't know the exact date) that women's groups were giving courses where the focus was on male-on-female incidents but there is a possibility that has changed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    I was reading this and thinking great, a gender neutral piece.
    However, then I came across:
    Survey results issued by the EU Agency for Fundamental Rights revealed that one in seven Irish women reported experiencing physical and/or sexual violence from a partner from the age of 15.

    Since 1996, 206 women have been unlawfully killed in Ireland, with more than six out of 10 of these killed in their own homes. More than half of the women in cases resolved by the criminal justice system were murdered by a partner or former partner.

    No mention of male victims or female perpetrators.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    iptba wrote: »
    No mention of male victims or female perpetrators.

    Any figures for how many men are killed by female partners or former partners?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Any figures for how many men are killed by female partners or former partners?

    I don't know of Irish figures but these are figures from England and Wales:
    On average about seven women and two men are killed by their current or former partner every month in England and Wales.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-22610534


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Any figures for how many men are killed by female partners or former partners?

    I never really get why women being pretty poor at violence is taken as a metric of anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    iptba wrote: »
    I was reading this and thinking great, a gender neutral piece.

    However, then I came across:
    Survey results issued by the EU Agency for Fundamental Rights revealed that one in seven Irish women reported experiencing physical and/or sexual violence from a partner from the age of 15.

    Since 1996, 206 women have been unlawfully killed in Ireland, with more than six out of 10 of these killed in their own homes. More than half of the women in cases resolved by the criminal justice system were murdered by a partner or former partner.


    No mention of male victims or female perpetrators.
    Irish Times piece similar: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-laws-proposed-to-support-domestic-violence-victims-1.2295963

    Irish Examiner piece seems to be neutral:
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/proposed-new-domestic-violence-laws-aim-to-protect-and-support-victims-688036.html
    Figure does have two images of female victims but also one image with male victims (probably not made for the press conference).

    RTE has this piece http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0724/716887-domestic-violence-barring-orders/ which includes:
    The minister said that domestic violence remains a big problem, with one in five women experiencing domestic violence.
    It would be interesting to see whether male victims were mentioned.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    psinno wrote: »
    I never really get why women being pretty poor at violence is taken as a metric of anything.

    I'm not sure what you mean by that :confused: I just wanted to know if similar stats exist for male victims.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    iptba wrote: »
    Irish Times piece similar: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/new-laws-proposed-to-support-domestic-violence-victims-1.2295963

    Irish Examiner piece seems to be neutral:
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/proposed-new-domestic-violence-laws-aim-to-protect-and-support-victims-688036.html
    Figure does have two images of female victims but also one image with male victims (probably not made for the press conference).

    RTE has this piece http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0724/716887-domestic-violence-barring-orders/ which includes:

    It would be interesting to see whether male victims were mentioned.

    Matt Cooper just mentioned this at this start of his show as measures to help WOMEN suffering domestic violence :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 835 ✭✭✭dogcat


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Matt Cooper just mentioned this at this start of his show as measures to help WOMEN suffering domestic violence :mad:
    Matt Cooper certainly won't have my vote if he changes his mind.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Happened to come across this on Tumblr:
    http://nerdyshel.tumblr.com/post/124247234676/imagine-this

    Imagine This
    martytries:
    exopolitico:
    tabbitcha:
    sum-mermaiid:
    anti-feminist-pug:
    Imagine that your partner has been hitting you. Yelling at you. You’ve been married for a few years, you’re both in your 30s, you have a little daughter, and everything you do seems to be wrong. You’ve been made fun of, mocked and belittled by your partner.

    But you need them, because you can’t take another failed relationship. You can’t be alone again, and they’ve got you convinced that all the beatings and scratches and scrapes are your fault.

    You tell your friends and they laugh. No matter how many bruises or cuts you show them, it’s still your fault, so you hide them. You feel trapped, but you don’t feel like you can escape. You’re convinced that you’re just locking yourself in.

    And you see online one day an article. Someone else went through what you have. They got the cuts, the bruises, the scratches. You see that here is hope and freedom from these beatings. The physical and emotional pain can go away, there is someone there to help!

    So you write down a list of 10 abuse victim hotlines, for people being abused. And you call them one by one.

    If you were a man:
    6 of those hotlines would refuse to help because of your gender.
    3 of those hotlines would refer you to or give you a number to a hotline dealing with people that abuse and are looking to stop.
    1 of those hotlines would help.
    Out of those 10, 2 of those would also laugh at you or say you deserved it.

    If you were a woman:
    10 of those hotlines would help.

    Abuse is very scary, but what seems scarier to you; being abused, reaching out and getting the help you need, or being abused, reaching out and getting laughed and turned away over 60% of the time because of who you are?
    Only 8% of men who call abuse hotlines find them ‘very helpful’ and get the assistance they need.

    Women can abuse. Men can be abused. Men need equality and help too https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/3977-researcher-what-hap-3977.
    Wtf is this trash lol
    how is this trash?

    All they could say is “this is trash” because this study was written and published by a woman with a PhD and is comprehensive and heavily sourced.

    Just to add some quotes found in the study from men who tried to seek help:

    • They laughed at me and told me I must have done something to deserve it if it happened at all.

    • They asked how much I weighed and how much she weighed and then hung up on me…I was told by this agency that I was full of BS.

    • They accused me of trying to hide my “abuse” of her by claiming to be a victim, and they said that I was nothing more than a wimp.

    • They didn’t really listen to what I said. They assumed that all abusers are men and said that I must accept that I was the abuser. They ridiculed me for not leaving my wife, ignoring the issues about what I would need to do to protect my six children and care for them.

    And maybe the saddest one: They just laughed and hung up the phone.

    Man can be abused too , this is not trash

    My father had to suffer hell for years , and he ended up in hopsital too because of my mother . So don’t you dare to say that a man can’t suffer from abuse because that’s bull****. It happens , it can happen to everyone . And the fact that people are not willing to help is just sick
    (via dashdashsemicolon)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Big jump in calls to abuse helpline for men
    AMEN publishes its 2014 Annual Report

    http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=25079

    Well done and thanks to the counsellors who gave counselling for free.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    Heard the ad for this today - really really insulting to men!

    Firstly, because it omits that domestic violence can affect anyone. Secondly because it holds men in general - not just abusive men - responsible for domestic violence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Christmas: The most violent time of year for women
    One victim of domestic abuse explains how the festive period is particularly difficult
    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/christmas-the-most-violent-time-of-year-for-women-1.2471262
    They could have run the same story but just taken "women" out of the title/similar and included AMEN's number also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭silverbolt


    Great to read we no longer have domestic violence in lesbian relationships nor do we have women attacking/abusing men or children.

    As someone who has been in an emotionally abusive relationship from which i still have scars this is very good to hear that i imagined the whole thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Male victim of domestic violence is included in an article in the Irish Times today http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/family-court-husband-granted-protection-after-attack-by-wife-1.2479795:
    He said on Monday his wife threw a knife at him and stuck a scissors in his neck. She would have injured him further if his adult daughter had not intervened.

    He also said that over the Christmas break his wife pushed him down the stairs and threw a hammer at him. He told the judge his wife had suffered all her life with mental health issues and was on anti-depressants, but had become more violent recently. He was afraid of her, he said.

    Article also includes a woman who suffered domestic violence from her (male) partner and another woman who suffered it from her 19-year-old son.

    The latter two asked for temporary barring orders. The man only asked for a protection order:
    “Yes, she’s threatened to kill me,” the man said. He said he did not want her barred from the house because she had nowhere else to go.
    Very good of him in the circumstances.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Labour will make communities safer - Ó Ríordáin
    13 February 2016

    Statement by Aodhán Ó Ríordáin TD
    Minister of State at the Department of Justice and Equality and Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht with special responsibility for Equality, New Communities and Culture and Drugs Strategy

    [..]

    Legislate to improve the protections available to victims of domestic violence, most critically for those victims in crisis situations and will also make the courts process easier for victims of domestic violence;
    Wonder what this means? Will it ignore the fact that a lot of domestic violence involves both partners. And will it be applied equally to situations with male victims.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭LostinBlanch


    Wife kills husband because he lost his job. :eek:
    Edwards, who was described as "domineering", possessive" and "very jealous", was said to have beaten her husband throughout the course of their brief relationship.

    So should she "man up"?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    That's madness. A whirl-wind romance leading to marriage, serious physical abuse, probably mental abuse too and finished at murder. :eek:

    Someone like that is a definite danger to the public, hope she gets a stiff sentence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    Just the prosecution case so far (here's today's update with some damning but very sad evidence). If found guilty though, this case is a salutary lesson to those who demonise men without accepting abuse can go the other way too.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    (January 21, 2016)
    Domestic abuse: Men 'need more help', victims' organisation says

    By Erinn Kerr
    BBC News NI

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-35364979


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Just happened to come across this:
    Safe Ireland Press Release - 19th April 2016
    Over 4,000 domestic violence victims a year being ignored in housing crisis
    http://www.indymedia.ie/article/105812

    While men with housing needs are completely ignored in this press release from the National Social Change Agency working on Domestic Violence in Ireland.
    About SAFE Ireland
    SAFE Ireland is the National Social Change Agency working on Domestic Violence in Ireland.
    http://www.safeireland.ie/about-us/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 862 ✭✭✭constance tench


    iptba wrote: »
    Just happened to come across this:


    While men with housing needs are completely ignored in this press release from the National Social Change Agency working on Domestic Violence in Ireland.


    Fair play to Noeline Blackwell CEO of the rape crisis center for pointing out (twice) that men suffer form domestic violence also. She was a guest on Tonight with VB along with Sharon O'Halloran CEO of Safe Ireland and Lynn Rosenthal former white house adviser- interview starts @ 14.50

    http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/107398/0/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Fair play to Noeline Blackwell CEO of the rape crisis center for pointing out (twice) that men suffer form domestic violence also. She was a guest on Tonight with VB along with Sharon O'Halloran CEO of Safe Ireland and Lynn Rosenthal former white house adviser- interview starts @ 14.50

    http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/41/107398/0/Tonight-with-Vincent-Browne
    Yes, good for her. Unfortunately this was not explored at all despite it being quite a long piece.

    Given the absence of comments from SafeIreland about domestic violence that men face, it is hard to take a lecture from them, as happened:
    e.g.
    "we don't take this seriously"
    "we have systems that are failing women constantly"
    "we blame women"
    "we minimise the issue"
    "culture of silence and shame in this country"

    "Gender bias" in the system

    "offender ... he" (US woman)
    etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    A man describes his experiences of domestic abuse.
    From the Irish Times.
    He said Aherne, the writer behind Mrs Merton and the Royle Family, tried to “brainwash” him with negative comments before becoming physically abusive.

    Describing the start of the violence, he wrote: “She attacked me, using her nails to scratch at my neck, tearing off my necklace and ripping my top. It was proper shocking stuff.

    “And although she was really contrite the next morning, it marked the beginning of some serious screaming-banshee behaviour – putting cigarettes out on my arm, attacking me with bottles, knives, chairs and other assorted furniture. It would be set off by the slightest thing – talking or looking at another woman was a favourite.”

    On one occasion, Hook wrote, Aherne slapped him in front of “30 assorted comedians” in the middle of a British Comedy awards afterparty. He described another incident when Aherne allegedly took scissors to his possessions, including photographs of his children.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/peter-hook-says-caroline-aherne-was-physically-abusive-during-marriage-1.2815134

    Alternative link if you don't have an Irish Times subscription and have used up your 10 articles for the week
    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2016/oct/03/peter-hook-caroline-aherne-physically-abusive-during-marriage


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    Big two-day conference on domestic violence in Ireland is on at the moment:
    http://safeirelandsummit.ie/programme/

    Doesn't look like there is any focus on male victims.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,370 ✭✭✭pconn062


    iptba wrote: »
    Big two-day conference on domestic violence in Ireland is on at the moment:
    http://safeirelandsummit.ie/programme/

    Doesn't look like there is any focus on male victims.

    Seen as their slogan is "we believe that Ireland can become a safer place for women and children", I very much doubt they are overly concerned with violence against men.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,928 ✭✭✭iptba


    pconn062 wrote: »
    Seen as their slogan is "we believe that Ireland can become a safer place for women and children", I very much doubt they are overly concerned with violence against men.
    They also have "making Ireland the safest country in the world".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,583 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    And quelle surprise the representative for the conference on Newstalk this morning was an American Gender Studies muppet.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 484 ✭✭jeanjolie


    I think pushing a culture of pushing men to be 'manly, tough, unemotional, aggressive' is inherently what causes some men to act out in these ways.

    Sure, its good to be a strong-willed and independent, but that is entirely different from forcing toxic masculinity on so many young men. Instead of using silly and pointless phrases like 'man up, toughen up' we could show men that if they want any change they should take responsibility for themselves, because ultimately they'll be waiting for help till hell freezes over.

    And people need to realize that by encouraging men to be aggressive you will get that translating into non-criminal and criminal acts. IMO, a sizeable in the 'lad culture' engage in non-criminal acts of aggression.


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