Old West Clare railway line.

johnam · 17-05-2014 08:21PM

According to theClare Herald there has been some movement with the greenway plans over the last few days. I know these plans were discussed over the last few years, but it looks like the money has been allocated to the project now. Would be great to see the whole thing done.

There is also some interesting reading here especially from page 8 or 9 on.

imabitthick · 12-11-2015 10:35PM

if they want to walk in the country and on the land thats fine, let em bugger off and buy some

elastico · 12-11-2015 10:43PM

imabitthick wrote: »

if they want to walk in the country and on the land thats fine, let em bugger off and buy some

Your username is a bit of an understatement. You are more than a bit thick.:rolleyes:

imabitthick · 12-11-2015 10:51PM

is'nt it ironic

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-11-2015 11:19PM

imabitthick wrote: »

if they want to walk in the country and on the land thats fine, let em bugger off and buy some

You must work for Failte Ireland.

imabitthick · 12-11-2015 11:22PM

i am the smiling face of it. just pissed off with people thinking that have an entitlement to wander wherever they like

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-11-2015 01:06AM

imabitthick wrote: »

i am the smiling face of it. just pissed off with people thinking that have an entitlement to wander wherever they like

Well, that's what designated walking routes would be for, nobody wants to propose that people should walk across fields or someone's backyard. Check out Germany (or anywhere else in Europe), you can walk the entire length and breadth of it without ever having to walk along a busy road full of trucks and cars with no hard shoulder, like here.
Having great hiking trails is a big tourist attraction. You can walk in the Alps in the absolute middle of nowhere and find a busy restaurant with rooms to rent, except you have to pre-book, cause they're booked solid for weeks.
We're missing a trick here.
Of course a lot of people would have the attitude of "if they don't like it, they can fcuk off" and you know what? They will. I'm sure that's really good for a country that relies so much on the tourist trade.

whisky_galore · 13-11-2015 11:32AM

imabitthick wrote: »

if they want to walk in the country and on the land thats fine, let em bugger off and buy some

Hunters and fishermen seem to go wherever they want without asking the landowner and no-one gives out about them.

Clareman · 13-11-2015 09:43PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Hunters and fishermen seem to go wherever they want without asking the landowner and no-one gives out about them.

You'll normally notice Lands Protected signs for hunters/fisherman, this means that the local club is covering the insurance, you also need a license to do both activities during the agreed times.

locum-motion · 13-11-2015 11:10PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Hunters and fishermen seem to go wherever they want without asking the landowner and no-one gives out about them.

Hunters get permission.

The word you're looking for is "Poachers"

whisky_galore · 16-11-2015 12:44PM

locum-motion wrote: »

Hunters get permission.

The word you're looking for is "Poachers"

No they don't. The lads with otterhounds have to be the most obnoxious.

dr.fuzzenstein · 16-11-2015 03:31PM

I think countryside walkways might be of no consequence to hunters, so that might be an entirely different subject to that. And tourists are very rarely out for game. :pac:
Unless we start offering Poacher's Tours...

locum-motion · 16-11-2015 10:50PM

whisky_galore wrote: »

No they don't. The lads with otterhounds have to be the most obnoxious.

These "lads with otterhounds" you mention: Do they have the permission of the landowner/hunting rights owner* to be there?

If they do, they're 'hunting'.

If they don't, they're 'poaching'.

"Hunters go anywhere they want without permission" is a sweeping generalisation that you simply cannot make; I'm a hunter, and I do not do that. If I did, I would be poaching.

*: It is by no means a certainty that the hunting rights owner and the landowner are the same person.

imabitthick · 06-12-2015 09:28PM

in fairness the idea is a good one and would be an asset. However planners in the council have to understand the implications for the the farmers involved.

godfrey · 17-12-2015 08:16PM

I fully agree that reopening the WCR in some form is an excellent idea.

I am sadly disappointed to see that there isn't a single fekkn route map or a link to one on the website http://www.westclarerailway.ie

g

imabitthick · 17-12-2015 10:53PM

i have a yard smack bang in the middle of it and a hundred yard away is a garage of a house on it. Going to make it very difficult

irish coldplayer · 17-12-2015 10:59PM

couldnt it route around your yard and the garage in question?
It doesnt have to be exactly the old railway line on the entirety of the route.

imabitthick · 17-12-2015 11:10PM

well it cant really. thats into a field on the left and a river on the right

johnam · 18-12-2015 11:53PM

godfrey wrote: »

I fully agree that reopening the WCR in some form is an excellent idea.

I am sadly disappointed to see that there isn't a single fekkn route map or a link to one on the website http://www.westclarerailway.ie

g

A lot of the track beds are visible in Google Maps, I have mapped out the section from Ennis to Lahinch here and will edit the map further over the next few days to continue on as far as kilrush and kilkee.

From talking to some now retired former colleagues, I believe the station in Ennis was across the road from the current train station in Ennis, and that both tracks ran side by side until the Tulla Road bridge, where the West Clare swung west around the town. The route of the tracks is now the main road into the Corovorrin Estate, and the track lines are visible all the way from there out to Lahinch.

I do not understand why the people of Kilkee, and Loop Head are not fighting to get a cycle route opened along some or all of the route (parts that are built on can be bypassed with a little cooperation from locals). The route would provide spectacular access to an area which has received great awards for eco tourism, and has also been named by Lonely Planet as among the top cycling destinations world wide.

Imagine, Train or Motorway to Ennis, and then Cycle out from there to West Clare, Ennistymon, Lahinch, Spanish Point, Kilrush, Kilkee, and from there you have access to quiet country roads to spend a few days exploring the Loop Head Peninsula. The Mayo Greenway is getting amazing reviews with plenty of people travelling to get to in. Ennis is a hell of a lot easier to get to than Westport, and the West Clare greenway would open up the West of the County from there.

godfrey · 19-12-2015 12:21AM

Thanks for taking the time to do that johnam.

G

johnam · 19-12-2015 11:10AM

godfrey wrote: »

Thanks for taking the time to do that johnam.

G

Not a problem. It is actually pretty easy to follow the tracks from Ennis out as far as Lahinch. Unfortunately the picture on google maps is cloudy for a while after Lahinch, but by picking up the line at Moyasta and following it backwards, you can make a fairly good guess of where the line goes through the clouds. I have finished the route as far as Kilrush and Kilkee on the map. I presume the link in my last post is still valid, but if not here it is again.

There are quite a few houses / sheds built on the line, but for a cycle route, this would not be an issue. The route does not have to follow the tracks exactly, as long as the majority of the route is not mixed with main road traffic, I think it could be a huge success for tourism in the area.

Edit: looking at the map on my phone, it appears like google doesn't keep the line exactly where I placed it. But you can see where the tracks ran by looking for the lines in the hedgerows, or bridges over rivers etc close to my line is on the map.

Deagol · 19-12-2015 03:18PM

imabitthick wrote: »

i have a yard smack bang in the middle of it and a hundred yard away is a garage of a house on it. Going to make it very difficult

One thing I've wondered is how did the track route become private property after the railway was decommissioned? Did people have to purchase the land from CIE?

irish coldplayer · 19-12-2015 04:56PM

Deagol wrote: »

One thing I've wondered is how did the track route become private property after the railway was decommissioned? Did people have to purchase the land from CIE?

From here
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/heritage/pdfs/west_clare_railway_line_feasibility_study_2006.pdf

After its closure the railwayline was sold off during the 1960’s to adjoining landowners
for a nominal sum. Search of the records at the railway offices reveal that the land was
distributed into approximately 336 different holdings, varying in length size of between
20 metres and 800 metres with the average line-length of holding between 100-150
metres. Less than 10% of the line is now owned by C.I.E.s successor Iarnrod Eireann.
The fragmentation of the ownership is a significant barrier to be oversome and should not
be underestimated. International experience and experience in West Limerick has shown
that where the land has remained in the ownership of the railway company there are still
problems of encroachment and objections by adjoining land owners. In this case the land
has been sold off for nearly 40 years and this will present a significant problem requiring
lengthy negotiations with both legal owners and illegal occupiers.

dr.fuzzenstein · 19-12-2015 06:02PM

^^^
You can be sure that some pieces of fetid swamp-land suddenly become very valuable pieces of prime land that the owner has extremely close and sentimental bonds with and it would rend his heart in two parting with it and he couldn't possibly ever consider it, though at the right price...
And of course others might just not sell for no particular reason other than to be generally obstinate and of course in some cases it might really not be practically feasible.
My guess is, the line cannot and will not ever be resurrected in it's original form. Some detours will be in there, in the end it's all about compromise. And on the other hand, the government is always very quick to trumpet big, shiny and ambitious plans (how many broadband schemes have there been going back to the 90's?), but following through, spending the money and (this is the biggest problem IMO) doing the actual work (Lord bless us and save us!) are the biggest issues surrounding any exciting new idea (or brainfart) of well-meaning, but ultimately weak-willed officials.

elastico · 19-12-2015 07:17PM

irish coldplayer wrote: »

From here
http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/heritage/pdfs/west_clare_railway_line_feasibility_study_2006.pdf

After its closure the railwayline was sold off during the 1960’s to adjoining landowners
for a nominal sum. Search of the records at the railway offices reveal that the land was
distributed into approximately 336 different holdings, varying in length size of between
20 metres and 800 metres with the average line-length of holding between 100-150
metres. Less than 10% of the line is now owned by C.I.E.s successor Iarnrod Eireann.
The fragmentation of the ownership is a significant barrier to be oversome and should not
be underestimated. International experience and experience in West Limerick has shown
that where the land has remained in the ownership of the railway company there are still
problems of encroachment and objections by adjoining land owners. In this case the land
has been sold off for nearly 40 years and this will present a significant problem requiring
lengthy negotiations with both legal owners and illegal occupiers.

A fair challenge ahead but in the case of the cliffs of moher the landowners get a payment each year for allowing use of their land.

The kilkee moyasta kilrush section looks reasonably free of houses and best opportunity given large population each end, railway related tourism project in the middle, and said railway project already having access to sections of the line.

whisky_galore · 20-12-2015 02:11PM

Unless a significant portion of the locals are behind any greenway, or at least well disposed to it including landowners and business interests, all it will be is a pipe dream promoted by a few busybodies and outsiders.

ger664 · 20-12-2015 02:59PM

Council have already done the bit from Ennis to Lees road amenity park. None of it is on the original line.

johnam · 21-12-2015 02:33AM

ger664 wrote: »

Council have already done the bit from Ennis to Lees road amenity park. None of it is on the original line.

Ya, that bit doesn't make sense to me. Why build a cycle lane and then ask cyclist to dismount when crossing roads on 5 occasions over the space of 3 or 4km. I think they should have tried use the track bed and done some work on the river bridge to bring the route from Lees rd. in the Gort road, at least then would have only been one road crossing, and a cycle lane could have been placed on the Gort rd. as against sharing a footpath with pedestrians in an area where people already use the footpath as a parking space.

Red Clover · 28-12-2015 08:29PM

This discussion is like Hamlet with the Prince. Jackie Whelan owns Moyasta Junction and is doing his best to get the trains running again. He has a short bit of track open through Shragh bog on which he has a train running for tourist rides. He even got permission to lay tracks across the N67 Kilkee-Kilrush road. He has a large amount of engines and rolling stock and has planning permission to build a Railway Museum. As all this is on his own property he doesn't have any impediments. One farmer I spoke to says that his land is very soft (it is a corcass) and he uses the old line which is raised to get his tractor from field to field. Hard to see a man like him giving up this. A walking route and cycling route would work out well.Tourist interests in Kilkee have met Jackie Whelan and as far as I know discussions are progressing.

elastico · 29-12-2015 11:17AM

Red Clover wrote: »

Hard to see a man like him giving up this.

He wouldn't have to though. He would be paid to allow access to his land. The raised bed could be widened to enable use by train, tractor, cyclists and pedestrians.

Old West Clare railway line.

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