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A question about America's gun culture

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Comments

  • #32
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

    Yes, it would be worth it but American society doesn't value the life like we do in Ireland.


  • #33
    Duiske
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Sheeps wrote: »
    Honestly the answer to Americas gun problem is more guns. People wouldn't do school shootings if everyone was armed to the teeth.

    Can see the logic in that. I mean if all those 5yr olds killed in Dunblane in 1996 had been armed with AK-47's, they probably would have taken out Hamilton before he got through the door.


  • #34
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,499 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Homeowners living in ****hole areas of Chicago and Detroit might disagree with you. Armed houeholds and areas do reduce crime, look at the stats relating to black and Mexican gangs in the two cities I've mentioned.


  • #35
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Duiske wrote: »
    Can see the logic in that. I mean if all those 5yr olds killed in Dunblane in 1996 had been armed with AK-47's, they probably would have taken out Hamilton before he got through the door.

    Well it is common knowledge that militarising children from a young age only ever leads to stable, healthy societies.


  • #36
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,636 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    It's not access to guns that needs to change, its American culture and hysterical over-reaction to everything that does.

    How many countries have similar or marginally tighter gun laws but nowhere near the level of public shootings?
    This list would suggest that there are plenty of countries where its even easier to own weapons...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Comparison


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  • #37
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    This happened where I live this weekend: http://mic.com/articles/131305/police-shoot-and-kill-man-caught-throwing-rocks-at-phoenix-police-station#.9IfzhuQib

    It reads like an IDF 'incident'...


  • #38
    R.D. aka MR.D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭R.D. aka MR.D


    It's so ingrained in their culture.

    My OH is from a Western state in the US and guns are everywhere. He is really liberal, well-educated, well-travelled. He doesn't own a gun and has no interest in it but believes that people have a right to have gun.

    How do you change that? No idea!!


  • #39
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,289 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »
    It's so ingrained in their culture.

    My OH is from a Western state in the US and guns are everywhere. He is really liberal, well-educated, well-travelled. He doesn't own a gun and has no interest in it but believes that people have a right to have gun.

    How do you change that? No idea!!

    You don't. You just leave or at least that's my plan :pac:


  • #40
    R.D. aka MR.D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,643 ✭✭✭R.D. aka MR.D


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    You don't. You just leave or at least that's my plan :pac:

    Haha! He is, too. And actually listed all the shootings this year as one of the reasons he doesn't want to go back (we already live abroad but were deciding between the US and Ireland).

    But still thinks people have the right to own guns....... :confused:


  • #41
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    The NBA had players doing anti-gun violence ads for Christmas day.

    On average 88 people die in the US every day from gun violence.


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  • #42
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,759 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Sheeps wrote: »
    Honestly the answer to Americas gun problem is more guns. People wouldn't do school shootings if everyone was armed to the teeth.
    So, Tom has an argument with Dick and pulls a gun on him. Dick pulls his shotgun and points it at Tom. Tom, feeling threatened, fires at Dick. Harry, seeing his best mate Dick being shot opens up with his AK47. Things then spiral out of control.

    This happens in the cafeteria at lunchtime. 142 people end up being shot.


  • #43
    mynameis905
    Closed Accounts Posts: 754 ✭✭✭mynameis905


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

    The American public by and large don't want gun controls. Everytime we hear about mass-shootings I think surely now they'll have to do something. Nope. Gun sales actually increase after incidents like that.


  • #44
    FURET
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭FURET


    For anyone interested in a serious look at the question of guns in the US, and the role of guns in society more generally, I strongly recommend Sam Harris's essay, The Riddle of the Gun.


  • #45
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,077 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

    Banning cars or smoking would save more lives. Neither of them have constitutional protection, especially in the USA, so could be easily banned. Would it not be worth it?


  • #46
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,036 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »
    Haha! He is, too. And actually listed all the shootings this year as one of the reasons he doesn't want to go back (we already live abroad but were deciding between the US and Ireland).

    But still thinks people have the right to own guns....... :confused:

    Well technically they do have the right to own guns, and so they should.

    I'm actually quite pro-Gun myself and see little reason why those in the US should not have access to a gun for home defense or hunting. The problem really is the range of guns available to people and the lack of proper testing in background checks for the mental state of the buyer.

    Walmart only just stopped selling Assault Rifles, such as the AR-15 which does come with a semi-automatic variant. A gun like this is not for home defense or killing, it's for killing. There is a strange difference between the two.

    Guns are legal right here in Ireland and do require a pretty damn strict background check before the purchase is allowed.

    The problem with the US is they have it drilled into their heads it's their right to carry around arms all they want, whilst happily ignoring the fact that the Musket was the only real rifle around when their Constitution was written.


  • #47
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    It's nothing about freedom - people in the US are more than ready enough to piss their pants and throw away their rights, when the threat of terrorist attacks are hyped up, despite that causing only a miniscule number of deaths compared to those caused by guns - same with drugs, and how prohibition of drugs fuels the massive rights-eroding prison-state:
    http://www.vox.com/2015/10/3/9446193/gun-deaths-aids-war-terrorism

    The reason why guns are not banned is: Money. People make a lot of money from guns.

    That's pretty much all there is to it. You might have a culture glorifying gun ownership as being a protected 'right', but that culture isn't just inherently present/there, it has to be fostered and promoted - those who put money into promoting that culture and lobbying against threats to it, are those who stand to (primarily monetarily) gain from that gun culture.


  • #48
    Sheeps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Victor wrote: »
    So, Tom has an argument with Dick and pulls a gun on him. Dick pulls his shotgun and points it at Tom. Tom, feeling threatened, fires at Dick. Harry, seeing his best mate Dick being shot opens up with his AK47. Things then spiral out of control.

    This happens in the cafeteria at lunchtime. 142 people end up being shot.

    Moot point, this would never happen.


  • #49
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,703 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    This happened where I live this weekend: http://mic.com/articles/131305/police-shoot-and-kill-man-caught-throwing-rocks-at-phoenix-police-station#.9IfzhuQib

    It reads like an IDF 'incident'...

    Cops in the US have a zero tolerance attitude but given the number of guns I can't blame them. People seem to expect police to take huge risks to save the life of someone endangering their and others safety. Many of the reported police brutality cases were people breaking the law and resisting arrest. Look at some of the full lenght videos and you see a different story.


  • #50
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Cops in the US have a zero tolerance attitude but given the number of guns I can't blame them. People seem to expect police to take huge risks to save the life of someone endangering their and others safety. Many of the reported police brutality cases were people breaking the law and resisting arrest. Look at some of the full lenght videos and you see a different story.
    I honestly don't know if they do, or to what extent, but surely given the prevalence of guns in the US, the police receive training to shoot to wound, not kill? Especially when it's something like a lone drunk guy throwing stones, going straight for the gun and shooting to kill is more than a little bit much.


  • #51
    Sheeps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I honestly don't know if they do, or to what extent, but surely given the prevalence of guns in the US, the police receive training to shoot to wound, not kill? Especially when it's something like a lone drunk guy throwing stones, going straight for the gun and shooting to kill is more than a little bit much.

    That's the stance Goliath took when David was a lone drunk guy throwing rocks and look what happened there.


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  • #52
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    More guns solve gun problems.


  • #53
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,703 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I honestly don't know if they do, or to what extent, but surely given the prevalence of guns in the US, the police receive training to shoot to wound, not kill? Especially when it's something like a lone drunk guy throwing stones, going straight for the gun and shooting to kill is more than a little bit much.

    It says 'bricks or rocks'. That sounds more than just stones. The size and how hard its thrown real is a huge difference.


  • #54
    recipio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,806 ✭✭✭recipio


    Gun control is a metaphor for State control. Americans know that if they concede gun ownership they will end up like well .........us, where shooting tin cans in your back garden is illegal.
    I would prefer sensible background checks than State control any day.


  • #55
    Faith+1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,655 ✭✭✭Faith+1


    Was in a gun shop in Austin Texas last year. You could actually buy a browning .30 cal machine gun for home defence! It was the same gun that was used in the bell tower in Saving Private Ryan. I don't know if it was fully auto or if it was modified to semi? My American friend couln't believe how amazed I was, especially when I told her that pepper spray was banned in Ireland! She carried a concealed .45 but I think from next year you can open carry in Texas.

    Gotta love 'Merica!


  • #56
    con___manx1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    I never realised how dumb Americans were, untill I spent some time over there. The gun culture will never change. I don't feel the need to own a gun in Ireland but if I lived in the states I would get one for sure, To protect myself from the other maniacs with guns


  • #57
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Cops in the US have a zero tolerance attitude but given the number of guns I can't blame them. People seem to expect police to take huge risks to save the life of someone endangering their and others safety. Many of the reported police brutality cases were people breaking the law and resisting arrest. Look at some of the full lenght videos and you see a different story.

    Can you see how less guns might improve the situation?


  • #58
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    It says 'bricks or rocks'. That sounds more than just stones. The size and how hard its thrown real is a huge difference.

    When you have a gun, and a bunch of buddies backing you up who also have guns, a drunk person throwing stones, bricks, or rocks (a bit hyperbolic to refer to them as projectiles in the article), does not put you in grave danger. If that causes enough panic that you need to kill the person, your competency (or the guidelines) need to be re-evaluated.


  • #59
    crazygeryy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭crazygeryy


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Guns don't kill people bullets do. If it was Ireland there would be a bullet levy that would make shooting a bullet something for rich folk only.

    Do what Chris rock says.charge 5000 dollars a bullet.then see how many mas shootings there are.


  • #60
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,703 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Billy86 wrote: »
    When you have a gun, and a bunch of buddies backing you up who also have guns, a drunk person throwing stones, bricks, or rocks (a bit hyperbolic to refer to them as projectiles in the article), does not put you in grave danger. If that causes enough panic that you need to kill the person, your competency (or the guidelines) need to be re-evaluated.

    Someone throwing bricks/rocks can put you in grave danger.


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  • #61
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,703 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Can you see how less guns might improve the situation?

    I doubt criminals would hand in their guns.


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