A question about America's gun culture

steddyeddy

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

MilesMorales1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

Not to them crazy Americans and their guns and their taking away their freedoms and ****.

I mean if you get to the point where you can shoot up a school full of little kids and nothing changes, the problem is deeper than we can understand, I think.

_Brian

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

You see you're looking too logically at it..

The gun nuts see two things...

1, they need their guns to protect themselves, these deaths are collateral damage in their freedom to have guns, they want their guns more than they want to save these people.
2, if there were more guns being used by more people then these mass shootings could all be prevented..

Cortina_MK_IV

Try telling that to the "I'll give you my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead hands" brigade.

Usernemises

The pro gun nuts would just reply with "how many lives a year do guns save", which is ridiculous. I think America has gone too far now to be brought back. Guns are easily accessible and everywhere, people have guns to protect themselves from people with guns!

B.A._Baracus

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

Of course it would be worth it
Problem is would people want to give up their guns... Which let's be honest.... Most wouldn't.

We're talking about America here. Some people state it's their God given right to own a gun. Other people stand behind the constitution. So the sad reality is, and while this is only my opinion, I reckon the vast majority of gun owners in the United States would rather hold on to their guns than save 10 lives in the example you made.

ceadaoin.

How can they 'give up' the hundreds of millions of guns that are already owned privately? It won't happen

Atlantic Dawn

Guns don't kill people bullets do. If it was Ireland there would be a bullet levy that would make shooting a bullet something for rich folk only.

The Sun King

OP is obviously a government employee looking to disarm the freedom loving American public so that Obama can send the troops in to suppress the people.

That's the basic fear, right?

wendell borton

Interesting article on how with each subsequent atrocity carried out the threshold required for someone else to carry out violence is reduced.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/thresholds-of-violence

timthumbni

It's a simple fact. Guns and lots of them make US people safer. Anyone who watched red dawn in 1985 could see that the yanks need them. Where's the argument here?

Custardpi

There really doesn't seem to be any kind of a proper solution to gun violence in the States. While it's possible that some measures like an agreed standard for background checks across the different states might be brought in or that there might be restrictions on certain types of firearms those who call for the "giving up" of guns are delusional. Even if Congress were to vote for such a measure & the Supreme Court to uphold it (unlikely even without the millions of NRA lobbying dollars which would swing into action at such a prospect) the civil unrest which would ensue from the attempted implementation of a ban on guns would likely result in far more deaths than such a measure could conceivably save.

donegaLroad

I was just watching Barak Obama interviewing David Attenborough in the White House on RTE player... and one of the questions Obama asked was, what was the most dangerous situation he had found himself in, in his 60 years of filming wildlife across the world.

David Attenborough replied that the most dangerous situation he was ever in was in the presence of a male Homo Sapien with a gun who had too much to drink.

CINCLANTFLT

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

Why do you hate freedom?

timthumbni

donegaLroad wrote: »

I was just watching Barak Obama interviewing David Attenborough in the White House on RTE player... and one of the questions Obama asked was, what was the most dangerous situation he had found himself in, in his 60 years of filming wildlife across the world.

David Attenborough replied that the most dangerous situation he was ever in was in the presence of a male Homo Sapien with a gun who had too much to drink.

And what was Obamas response to that???

newacc2015

Some parts of America have a gun culture. But it is not the norm for a lot of Americans. NYC is pretty much gun free and any weapon will land you in prison due to their stop and frisk rules. A lot of states have restricted gun laws and owning a gun is taboo. So the idea that everyone in America loves guns is BS. There is plenty of reasons why Americans own guns. Safety is a huge one, as some Americans literally live in the middle of no where. They are hours from a police station and need a gun to protect against an intruder.A lot of guns are used for hunting in America.

Tens of millions of American own guns. But there is a handful every year with mental illness who misuse them. IMO that doesnt justify outlawing them. A better strategy would be improving mental health services. Most mass shooting were carried out by Americans who had a history of mental illness.

I cant understand why people are so fixated on gun violence in America.There is far more damaging issues which get zero attention in the US. What about the fact 60% of US prisoners are African Americans? What about the fact that America has a "war on drugs" and thousands of innocent Mexicans are killed every year from Cartels due to failed US policy? What the huge and increasing numbers living in poverty due to rising income inequality? What about the fact ten of millions of Americans who have no access to affordable healthcare?

Maybe about Americans arent too fixated on their "gun culture" as there is far more damaging things in America society to focus on. It is like the Irish obsession with road deaths. A single life lost is too many. But the government/media are so fixated on road deaths that far more important and damaging issues get zero air time/policy making.

Larry the Logster

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

I suppose we should give up out cars too, since lots of people die on the roads. Your threads are getting more off the wall.

The Randy Riverbeast

But if I don't have a gun how will I prevent Obama taking it from me?

The king of England could walk in and just push me around. What about my confederate flag? He'll take that, and my cousin/wife too.

Larry the Logster

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

I suppose we should give up our cars too, since lots of people die on the roads. Your threads are getting more off the wall.

Corpus Twisty

timthumbni wrote: »

And what was Obamas response to that???

He probably spent ten minutes trying to figure out if it was an anti-gay response.

Manach

Leaving aside that in the US this is a constituational right, the logisitics of removing the guns: registration, collection, legal/state action against those who would not comply , would entail spending quite alot of money which if diverted elsewhere might save more lives than the OP's figure.

timthumbni

Personally I don't give a monkeys about the yanks though it's obvious that they need to wise up. They are a very paranoid bunch. Huge country but so many insecurities it's just weird. Maybe the Russians Are coming, maybe the Cubans are with their yank raping cigars. Huge country. Unfortunately populated by clowns.

Monkeysgomad

I think having guns should be a personal choice. They will protect you from something if danger were to arise.
Don't forget there Are only 4.595 million people in Ireland. The reason there are much more deaths by guns in the us is because there is 318.9 million people.

Armchair Andy

10 lives is absolutely nothing in monetary terms to arms manufacturers. It would need to be substantially more before some politician would question before he received his brown envelope.

For Forks Sake

CINCLANTFLT wrote: »

Why do you hate freedom?

Something, something..Bear Arms!!

Victor

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

I think having guns should be a personal choice. They will protect you from something if danger were to arise.
Don't forget there Are only 4.595 million people in Ireland. The reason there are much more deaths by guns in the us is because there is 318.9 million people.

Ther are about 30,000 gun deaths in the USA each year. Changing things for population size, that would be the equivalent of 432 gun deaths in Ireland.

So far this year, police in Oklahoma have killed 38 people. It has a smaller population than Ireland.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Guns don't kill people bullets do. If it was Ireland there would be a bullet levy that would make shooting a bullet something for rich folk only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw

suicide_circus

There is something like 300+ million guns in America. Good luck controlling that. A large enough proportion of the population believes that frequent mass shootings are an acceptable risk associated with their right to own a gun that not enough political will exists to do anything about it.

Capt'n Midnight

Monkeysgomad wrote: »

I think having guns should be a personal choice. They will protect you from something if danger were to arise.
Don't forget there Are only 4.595 million people in Ireland. The reason there are much more deaths by guns in the us is because there is 318.9 million people.

About that,

Over 3,000 were killed up North during the troubles.

Scaled up 200 times to match the US population that would be 600,000 Killed, more than all the US military killed in WWII and Korea and Vietnam and Iraq and Afghanistan and all the other wars since the 1930's.

Today not so much.

Sheeps

Honestly the answer to Americas gun problem is more guns. People wouldn't do school shootings if everyone was armed to the teeth.

donegaLroad

timthumbni wrote: »

And what was Obamas response to that???

he laughed and agreed.

Obama came across well in this interview, in all fairness

BenedrylPete

OP your question is kind of in the realm of the ol 'whats the value of a life' category. Difficult to answer.

But, as for the American gun culture, some of it is actually reasonable. For example they have bears and the likes in certain state.

The good genuine reasons however get lumped in with the utter nonsense from people who quite obviously think of guns as toys and fashion accessories.

This entanglement along with the sheer number of paranoids, netwarriors who need a mac-10 for hunting mice, and the whole democrat vs republican culture means gun laws wont change there any time soon.


Edit. Also if you ever see anybody willfully enter any debate and the go on to say 'oh theres more important things to talk about so lets not talk about this topic' then they're simply being evasive, its a very disingenuous tactic.

Its basically saying 'Hey look over there while I sweep this under the rug'.

Wompa1

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

Yes, it would be worth it but American society doesn't value the life like we do in Ireland.

Duiske

Sheeps wrote: »

Honestly the answer to Americas gun problem is more guns. People wouldn't do school shootings if everyone was armed to the teeth.

Can see the logic in that. I mean if all those 5yr olds killed in Dunblane in 1996 had been armed with AK-47's, they probably would have taken out Hamilton before he got through the door.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Homeowners living in ****hole areas of Chicago and Detroit might disagree with you. Armed houeholds and areas do reduce crime, look at the stats relating to black and Mexican gangs in the two cities I've mentioned.

Billy86

Duiske wrote: »

Can see the logic in that. I mean if all those 5yr olds killed in Dunblane in 1996 had been armed with AK-47's, they probably would have taken out Hamilton before he got through the door.

Well it is common knowledge that militarising children from a young age only ever leads to stable, healthy societies.

Cookie_Monster

It's not access to guns that needs to change, its American culture and hysterical over-reaction to everything that does.

How many countries have similar or marginally tighter gun laws but nowhere near the level of public shootings?
This list would suggest that there are plenty of countries where its even easier to own weapons...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation#Comparison

Wompa1

This happened where I live this weekend: http://mic.com/articles/131305/police-shoot-and-kill-man-caught-throwing-rocks-at-phoenix-police-station#.9IfzhuQib

It reads like an IDF 'incident'...

R.D. aka MR.D

It's so ingrained in their culture.

My OH is from a Western state in the US and guns are everywhere. He is really liberal, well-educated, well-travelled. He doesn't own a gun and has no interest in it but believes that people have a right to have gun.

How do you change that? No idea!!

Wompa1

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

It's so ingrained in their culture.

My OH is from a Western state in the US and guns are everywhere. He is really liberal, well-educated, well-travelled. He doesn't own a gun and has no interest in it but believes that people have a right to have gun.

How do you change that? No idea!!

You don't. You just leave or at least that's my plan :pac:

R.D. aka MR.D

Wompa1 wrote: »

You don't. You just leave or at least that's my plan :pac:

Haha! He is, too. And actually listed all the shootings this year as one of the reasons he doesn't want to go back (we already live abroad but were deciding between the US and Ireland).

But still thinks people have the right to own guns.......

RobertKK

The NBA had players doing anti-gun violence ads for Christmas day.

On average 88 people die in the US every day from gun violence.

Victor

Sheeps wrote: »

Honestly the answer to Americas gun problem is more guns. People wouldn't do school shootings if everyone was armed to the teeth.

So, Tom has an argument with Dick and pulls a gun on him. Dick pulls his shotgun and points it at Tom. Tom, feeling threatened, fires at Dick. Harry, seeing his best mate Dick being shot opens up with his AK47. Things then spiral out of control.

This happens in the cafeteria at lunchtime. 142 people end up being shot.

mynameis905

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

The American public by and large don't want gun controls. Everytime we hear about mass-shootings I think surely now they'll have to do something. Nope. Gun sales actually increase after incidents like that.

FURET

For anyone interested in a serious look at the question of guns in the US, and the role of guns in society more generally, I strongly recommend Sam Harris's essay, The Riddle of the Gun.

Del2005

steddyeddy wrote: »

Every year in America there are mass shootings and hundreds of deaths a year from gun violence. Then there are countless debates on the role of gun culture in these deaths. My question is this: If giving up guns saved even ten lives a year would it not be worth it?

Banning cars or smoking would save more lives. Neither of them have constitutional protection, especially in the USA, so could be easily banned. Would it not be worth it?

Sonics2k

R.D. aka MR.D wrote: »

Haha! He is, too. And actually listed all the shootings this year as one of the reasons he doesn't want to go back (we already live abroad but were deciding between the US and Ireland).

But still thinks people have the right to own guns.......

Well technically they do have the right to own guns, and so they should.

I'm actually quite pro-Gun myself and see little reason why those in the US should not have access to a gun for home defense or hunting. The problem really is the range of guns available to people and the lack of proper testing in background checks for the mental state of the buyer.

Walmart only just stopped selling Assault Rifles, such as the AR-15 which does come with a semi-automatic variant. A gun like this is not for home defense or killing, it's for killing. There is a strange difference between the two.

Guns are legal right here in Ireland and do require a pretty damn strict background check before the purchase is allowed.

The problem with the US is they have it drilled into their heads it's their right to carry around arms all they want, whilst happily ignoring the fact that the Musket was the only real rifle around when their Constitution was written.

KomradeBishop

It's nothing about freedom - people in the US are more than ready enough to piss their pants and throw away their rights, when the threat of terrorist attacks are hyped up, despite that causing only a miniscule number of deaths compared to those caused by guns - same with drugs, and how prohibition of drugs fuels the massive rights-eroding prison-state:
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/3/9446193/gun-deaths-aids-war-terrorism

The reason why guns are not banned is: Money. People make a lot of money from guns.

That's pretty much all there is to it. You might have a culture glorifying gun ownership as being a protected 'right', but that culture isn't just inherently present/there, it has to be fostered and promoted - those who put money into promoting that culture and lobbying against threats to it, are those who stand to (primarily monetarily) gain from that gun culture.

Sheeps

Victor wrote: »

So, Tom has an argument with Dick and pulls a gun on him. Dick pulls his shotgun and points it at Tom. Tom, feeling threatened, fires at Dick. Harry, seeing his best mate Dick being shot opens up with his AK47. Things then spiral out of control.

This happens in the cafeteria at lunchtime. 142 people end up being shot.

Moot point, this would never happen.

Potatoeman

Wompa1 wrote: »

This happened where I live this weekend: http://mic.com/articles/131305/police-shoot-and-kill-man-caught-throwing-rocks-at-phoenix-police-station#.9IfzhuQib

It reads like an IDF 'incident'...

Cops in the US have a zero tolerance attitude but given the number of guns I can't blame them. People seem to expect police to take huge risks to save the life of someone endangering their and others safety. Many of the reported police brutality cases were people breaking the law and resisting arrest. Look at some of the full lenght videos and you see a different story.

Billy86

Potatoeman wrote: »

Cops in the US have a zero tolerance attitude but given the number of guns I can't blame them. People seem to expect police to take huge risks to save the life of someone endangering their and others safety. Many of the reported police brutality cases were people breaking the law and resisting arrest. Look at some of the full lenght videos and you see a different story.

I honestly don't know if they do, or to what extent, but surely given the prevalence of guns in the US, the police receive training to shoot to wound, not kill? Especially when it's something like a lone drunk guy throwing stones, going straight for the gun and shooting to kill is more than a little bit much.

Sheeps

Billy86 wrote: »

I honestly don't know if they do, or to what extent, but surely given the prevalence of guns in the US, the police receive training to shoot to wound, not kill? Especially when it's something like a lone drunk guy throwing stones, going straight for the gun and shooting to kill is more than a little bit much.

That's the stance Goliath took when David was a lone drunk guy throwing rocks and look what happened there.