air tightness and exceeding regulations- issues with architect and contractors

MizMix · 24-12-2015 06:44PM #1

We're at the stage of speccing our house design out before going to tender. I'm having an issue with the architect and in fairness some local contractors I've spoken to already:

- I want a MHRV and don't see the logic of not having one. The architect doesn't really get the point. The thing is we met the architect years back but there was issues which caused a massive delay with the site. I liked his designs- simple but only found out our difference of opinion on 'passive principles' much later. We're not aiming for passive but I do think we need to aim above regulations.
- He doesn't know why we want to go above min regulations. I've stressed we need to for an MHRV. He maintains meeting regulations is difficult enough. In fairness we do have a U shaped house so it's not straightforward. He was quite flippant when I mentioned setting an airtightness target (and in fairness after ringing a few contractors I know where he's coming from- when I mentioned a high air tightness target the response was basically 'ah now it's hard enough just meeting regs'.

I've only spoken to one contractor who is very strong in this area. They market themselves on 'passive building' etc and I'm sure their prices will reflect this. How realistic is it to go with a 'regular' contractor if the 'passive' builder is out of our budget- basically a good contractor who doesn't have the experience of meeting our targets and possibly paying an energy consultant to do some onsite training at the start of the build? Is that too simplistic?

We will be giving the architect a specific brief after xmas - it's just proving a little difficult as I'm not an expert but we can't depend on his advice on this either. I'm guessing we either need to get an energy consultant onboard or ensure we go with a contractor who is an expert at airtightness?

Overall- just looking for advice on whether people usually get an energy consultant onboard? Has anyone had similar issues with their designer or contractor?
If we specify air tightness materials from a specific supplier will they provide onsite training? Is exceeding regulations really that difficult for the average contractor? I guess I just feel like I'm hitting my head off a wall here and would appreciate advice on what I should do next (energy consultant to help with the spec and targets, add notes to the tender maybe given the architect isn't that experienced in this area) as from reading threads on here- most people aim and achieve for above regulations. We'll never do this again and I am not satisfied to just go with the flow and what the architect and most contractors here are telling me.

Thank you and apologies for the long post

mfceiling · 24-12-2015 07:06PM

You're totally correct. Why wouldn't you want to be better than the regs? It's like buying a car that does 30mpg....do you want one that'll do 55mpg?...ah no, sure doesn't that one do 30, sure what more do you want.

What about a change of architect or are you too far gone with this one? Maybe a post in the "looking for a tradesman" thread....someone may have experience of a good builder and will happily pass on their details.

Best of luck going forward.

BryanF · 24-12-2015 10:46PM

1. BER assessment
2. Do an air-tightness training course yourself - 1 day cost very little
3. Go to a few local builder merchants and ask for the names of who is buying the most air-tightness materials
4. Look around boards.ie there are a few experienced self-builder who have written plenty on their experiences and achievements

lownhard · 25-12-2015 12:18AM

solution appears painfully obvious....ditch the architect.

you want a house built to modern specifications and he has no interest in upskilling. Ye are going in different directions. Building is stressful enough without having to drag your architect along.

find an architect who you trust in area of passive house standards. Chances are they will know some good contractors too.

Calahonda52 · 25-12-2015 01:26PM

as above
plus
1: an energy consultant will not make either the builder or the useless architect u have do the job u want.
It will just be a complete nightmare.

Others here can advise on where the copyright or all the work/drawings/planning etc lie but u must start with guys that are willing to do what u want.

The key thing here is a number of A/T tests during the build
as Bryan says look around here: loadsa info here

Most builders can't be orsed with buying into the right way of doing it for good A/T

u do not say where u are but I will pm u details of a quy who is probably the best A/T quy in the business:

I think he now does a complete spec, u can ask him, he may be in Germany for Xmas but he is worth talking to.

Final point: don't be brow beaten into any sub optimal solutions here

rampantbunny · 27-12-2015 12:22AM

Definitely find yourself another architect. Some of the self-builders on here (myself included) have professionals on-board that either don't care enough, or quite simply don't have the knowledge required to design/spec adequately.

If I could have, I would've gotten rid of my architect and engineer but that ship has sailed. I now have to research everything which takes time, and is an unquantifiable ball-ache.

On the AT side of things, I did this myself (as have many other self-builders). There's a lot of work involved but I just couldn't see anyone doing the job with the required attention to detail and still making a wage - without rushing. If you are in any way DIY savvy you'll manage with patience and time.

That's my 2c, but I'll reiterate that you should without question get the proper professionals onboard from the get-go.

MizMix · 28-12-2015 12:00PM

Thank you for the helpful responses and PMs. We've had a preliminary PHPP done by an energy consultant who came recommended here- that was a few years ago before planning originally got refused. We're back in touch now and considering bringing him (or another I've also been recommended) onboard to assist with the spec and construction details re A/T. Although we realise we wouldn't have to do this with an architect with all the skills we require so we're also considering over the Xmas break what to do....we've already paid him for the next stage of the project but it could be small price to pay for having someone onboard that is comfortable with A/T, passive principles etc.

BryanF- good point re checking with building merchants (didn't think of that) and we're looking at taking on with the A/T ourselves (it's not something I thought was possible) - my husband was a carpenter in a past life and very detail orientated, although he has a very busy job now but with some planning we can hopefully make it work.

Calahonda52 · 29-12-2015 01:08PM

Builders merchants as source of who is buying A/T membranes is a good starting point however,
what is way more important is what they are selling: they tend to sell stuff that merchant branded is fit for relatively low quality build that have higher levels of permeability, so it will always be cheaper than the top brands such as Tyvek, which is sort of the "Hoover" of membranes

The last time I looked, a while a go, Tyvek was c 150 euro a roll, the builders merchant branded "Shed tex" product was 60
was the performance spec the same?
no way,
which bring me to an important point: just don't specify A/T membrane: specify what u want either by brand or by performance and ask for all spec sheets.
Then u need to ensure what u spec is what goes on: not unusual to show client roll of say Tyvek and then fit some crap: " sure its all the same missus, they didn't have the other stuff and other such bs"
Same applies to all items, even down to sockets and switches
and even if u want trim around your tiles..

Dont assume anything.

I am not for a moment suggestion Tyvek or any brand, its the spec of the material that is required, plus being fitted properly.
Finally, if using a multiplicity of layers of membranes, make sure they all work together.

air tightness and exceeding regulations- issues with architect and contractors

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