Leaving work on time frowned upon. Mod warning post 1

BreadnBuddha · 16-12-2015 09:05PM

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

If I could have the car started before quitting time, I would! The minute ten to 4 comes I'm in the car and out the gap. No fear of me staying around for the good of my health. That's the way I've always been, so I don't expect anyone to expect any different of me. If I'm not being paid to be there, I won't be there. You work to live, not the other way around.

You're paid to work, not to watch the clock.

Workplaces are full of wasters who spend 15 or more minutes at the beginning and end of each day doing things that should have been done before and after the paid work takes place.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster. Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

And anyone who starts and new job on a trial basis and doesn't see the damned good reason they should stick around and personally invest time in getting up to speed and revenue generating quickly is a waste of time, money and effort.

Eugene Norman · 16-12-2015 09:08PM

GFT wrote: »

Not before I'd have ran out the door an hour earlier. Funnily enough I've done sales mate and was always paid well as I done the job and wasn't threatened with the sack for not doing free work. I worked a shift pattern in line with business needs. I worked the requisite hours and got paid accordingly and my boss was nice enough to reward me if he needed me to do extra hours.

I feel sorry for the people you take advantage of.

I'm not in sales but I helped with sales for a while as an engineer. I remember going to a clients meeting, getting a 500k verbal agreement and not going back to work after our liquid lunch. We were still heroes. Surely sales is easy to measure.

It's it workers who tend to masochistically work late but that's often a sign of bad architecture to begin with or lousy code.

Eugene Norman · 16-12-2015 09:10PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You're paid to work, not to watch the clock.

Workplaces are full of wasters who spend 15 or more minutes at the beginning and end of each day doing things that should have been done before and after the paid work takes place.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster. Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

And anyone who starts and new job on a trial basis and doesn't see the damned good reason they should stick around and personally invest time in getting up to speed and revenue generating quickly is a waste of time, money and effort.

I walk in on time, spend a days work leaving on time, generally lunch at my desk and ace performance reviews.

I only stay later for meetings with the US. But that's never post 6. Luckily they're east coast.

Lots of fairly crap people around me working late though.

Noccy_Mondy · 16-12-2015 09:12PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You're paid to work, not to watch the clock.

Workplaces are full of wasters who spend 15 or more minutes at the beginning and end of each day doing things that should have been done before and after the paid work takes place.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster. Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

And anyone who starts and new job on a trial basis and doesn't see the damned good reason they should stick around and personally invest time in getting up to speed and revenue generating quickly is a waste of time, money and effort.

Please don't call me a waster. I go above and beyond for everyone while I work. I always give 110% to what I do, always get good results and have a happy positive atmosphere. I'm always motivated to do the best I can. When I'm there I work, and work hard, but when the bell goes, I am gone. I spent too long staying on after work when on placement/training doing paperwork, prep work etc, all of which was unpaid and ate into my personal time. I learned the hard way, but I seen where I was going before it was too late.

Now, it's during work time I give full effort, before and after is my own time to do my own things.

FixitFelix · 16-12-2015 09:12PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You're paid to work, not to watch the clock.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster. Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

Aren't we the little hero, if you're not paid to be there and you're staying there to "put an extra effort in" you're a fool.

Work for free and you'll never be out of work

circadian · 16-12-2015 09:15PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nothing to do with America, it's standard practice. It's a very union idea that you don't work one second outside of your contracted time without recompense.

Pay me for my time is not a union idea.

I'll happily throw in extra time when needed, but it's far from the norm.

OP if doing extra time and not getting paid for it isn't your kind of thing then I'd hang in there but keep looking. It's really difficult to make it past probation doing extra hours then change it, a precedence is set.

the_pen_turner · 16-12-2015 09:16PM

i have worked in construction.
when my employer was sound and easy going I didn't mind staying late here and there. sometimes it makes sence to finish when set up or to have it ready for someone else the day after.
I worked everyday for 10 weeks for one guy . he was sound and would let you go somewhere if you needed to (could be gone for an hour) and still pay you

on the other hand other employers have laid down the law and complained if you were a few minutes late but never noticed if you stayed late. at the end of lunch etc they would be standing there at the exact end time of lunch demanding that you get back to work.
one time I went to lunch at 1 25 (and he knew this) . at 1 30 he was looking at me as much as to say 'come on'.
as you would expect nobody stayed past the hours.
it came to its heat one day when a delivery driver drove in at 5 05pm just as we were about to leave. he organised the delivery time himself . no body stayed late and the driver had to come back the day after.

daheff · 16-12-2015 09:18PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Nothing to do with America, it's standard practice. It's a very union idea that you don't work one second outside of your contracted time without recompense.

No- I think its one of the basics of capitalism. Ask youself this, would the company give away its products for free? Well they are asking you for yours (your time) for free. If they expect outside contracted hours working, then they should pay for it. Do you think they'd pay you your full wage if you didnt work the full day everyday? not a chance.

ThisRegard wrote: »

I guess you've never had an office job? If you read what I said it's often made up in time in leu, officially or unofficially. If it's an upcoming assignment in which you know will involve a lot of extra hours overtime or time in leu can be agreed upon on a formal basis.

In my experience very few places give time inlieu. Its mainly the unionised (or were unionised) companies that do this.

FixitFelix wrote: »

Work for free and you'll never be out of work

great quote.

16-12-2015 09:19PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You're paid to work, not to watch the clock.

Workplaces are full of wasters who spend 15 or more minutes at the beginning and end of each day doing things that should have been done before and after the paid work takes place.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster. Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

And anyone who starts and new job on a trial basis and doesn't see the damned good reason they should stick around and personally invest time in getting up to speed and revenue generating quickly is a waste of time, money and effort.

Ah yes great to receive input from a theory X and Theory Y advocate :rolleyes:

So you actually work for nothing when the bell goes or do you just think other people should do it?

Captain Chaos · 16-12-2015 09:20PM

FixitFelix wrote: »

Work for free and you'll never be out of work

Yeah because everyone will know you are a fool that will work for free, or course they will give you work.

Time and effort are two things you don't give to companies for free, you start that then where doe it end. You may as well do you 40hr week for nothing and give your pay check back to the company.

I've been there and done that and now I make sure I get paid for every second I do and if not I clock out on the dot. I have got 3 promotions in the past year by not being a mug for my company anymore while the yes people are stuck where they are getting more and more work while going nowhere.

You have to stand up to these work practices, they don't work for nothing so why should I, my time is as valuable as anyone elses.

16-12-2015 09:23PM

Was only thinking about one of my old college friends earlier today who worked for free in a PC repair shop in order to gain experience one summer. The owner didnt even give her the price of a drink when she finished up to thank her for her help. You wouldnt mind he had a fair backlog of work to get through.

FixitFelix · 16-12-2015 09:24PM

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Yeah because everyone will know you are a foll that will work for free, or coure they will give you work.

Time and effort are two things you don't give to companies for free, you start that then where doe it end. You may as well do you 40hr week for nothing and give your pay check back to the company.

Exactly if im there pay me, if not im gone.
If you want me to work extra hours, bank holidays etc a deal is sorted out before i do anything

byhookorbycrook · 16-12-2015 09:24PM

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

But expecting people for staying late for the sake of it and as the norm means one of two things to me:

1: The work is there for more people to be hired and they just won't spend the money getting more staff in which would set alarm bells to me.

2: They want their pound of flesh and are of the opinion that when you took the job youre there for do with as they please.

Are you familiar with the Croke Park or Landsdown Road agreements???

Wanderer78 · 16-12-2015 09:26PM

imitation wrote: »

Companies exist to make money, they aren't paying people 40-50k a year to sit about an office doing things that aren't profitable, we live in a capitalist society, like it or not.

I find so many people here are time misers, every minute of their time is super frickin precious, god forbid you spend a minute longer in work, lining the pockets of the fat cats. I mean you could spend that time on boards or watching Netflix or some other amazing life enriching thing, rather than you know - doing some career development that will hopefully get you onto a decent salary or up the ladder or perhaps increase your enjoyment of the 40 hours a week you need to work to support yourself.

And no I am not advocating doing 50-60 weeks every single week, just doing 41/42 and the occasional 45 instead of 40 can make all the difference. If it doesn't make the difference or you are expected to do more.. you are in the wrong company.

id have to disagree with you on a lot of things there. the older you get, the more important your time becomes to you as you start to realise it could all be over in an act. apologies i dont know your age but you seem young enough. im almost 40 myself and i would class my life as pretty average. i like most my age have lost family and friends due to whatever. at some point in time you start to realise your time is precious. its not forever. we ve all been there, giving our employer everything. it generally isnt worth it. theyre basically robbing your time. spend as much time as you can with your nearest and dearest. life really is short. was recently listening to an interview with american economist paul mccully. at the end of the interview he was asked what would he change if he had his time over. his answer, you never hear somebody, like him say, i didnt do enough hours in the office! take note! you generally only get one chance at life so make the best of it!

never ever sacrifice your physical or mental health for work, ever. im glad you mentioned capitalism. theyre are fundamental flaws with our economic policies. they are not making the needs and requirements of most humans a priority. is this the way we want our planet to be run? there actually are alternatives out there. we just need to stand together and demand change. this disposable, disregard ethic must stop or we will effectively self destruct. yes companies exist to make money but we all need money to survive, or do we? our current economic policies and systems are imbalanced. they fail to work for the masses. this is in fact unsustainable. we actually can change these if we stand together.

40 hours a week is more than enough. this gives sufficient time for one to achieve a good work life balance. in fact i think the french are right in their 35 hour week. theyre really is more to life than working. enjoy your life folks.

the_pen_turner · 16-12-2015 09:28PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

You're paid to work, not to watch the clock.

Workplaces are full of wasters who spend 15 or more minutes at the beginning and end of each day doing things that should have been done before and after the paid work takes place.

Anyone who arrives at the last minute, clocks in, fluters around getting coffee and booting their PC is a waster. Anyone who clocks out and walks out the door on the button is a waster.

And anyone who starts and new job on a trial basis and doesn't see the damned good reason they should stick around and personally invest time in getting up to speed and revenue generating quickly is a waste of time, money and effort.

what a horrible perspective you have.
if I work 9-5 then all work related duties should be done between those times.
booting up a pc is a work duty and should be part of your paid work. if they want the work on the pc to start at 9 then your work day should start before that to allow preparing your work area
if you are paid until 5pm then you should wind down a few minute before that so that you can put things away and leave your work area ready for the next shift or day. then be ready to clock out at 5pm.

Halloween Jack · 16-12-2015 09:31PM

Amazing how many folk out there have been brainwashed or were lickspittles to begin with

FixitFelix · 16-12-2015 09:34PM

imitation wrote: »

I find so many people here are time misers, every minute of their time is super frickin precious, god forbid you spend a minute longer in work, lining the pockets of the fat cats. I mean you could spend that time on boards or watching Netflix or some other amazing life enriching thing,

What a stupid comment, "god forbid i line the pockets of the fats". you're god damn right i won't unless mine are being lined at the same time, your time might not be precious and can be spent working for nothing but mine is precious and if you want it you pay.

BreadnBuddha · 16-12-2015 09:35PM

FixitFelix wrote: »

Aren't we the little hero, if you're not paid to be there and you're staying there to "put an extra effort in" you're a fool.

Work for free and you'll never be out of work

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

FixitFelix · 16-12-2015 09:42PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

If it was said to him when he went for his interview that he might have to stay late and he willing excepted the job then its different(which he still should be paid for), but from the sound of the original post this was dropped on him later on which is why id be of the opinion no way.

16-12-2015 09:45PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

What cost exactly? please break down the maths for us? Fact is the OP's bosses is taking liberties and trying to bully people in order to make a saving, show the great cost saver they are and nothing else. Any one who expects free work is a parasite. I can guarantee the turnover of the place the OP is working in is very high without researching it thoroughly. Your one of these chancers who just wants to make savings. We all see through your bullshít so jog on.

Tazz T · 16-12-2015 09:47PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

You should try that with the next plumber, electrician, painter, mechanic, etc you hire.

the_pen_turner · 16-12-2015 09:50PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

whether the op is the best or worst employee ever has no relevance. OP is paid to work set hour they have done that ,

wanting to learn and become better at your job is part of what the OP is being paid to do. every employee should do this

BreadnBuddha · 16-12-2015 09:51PM

Mr.S wrote: »

Stupid comment tbh.

Hardly.

Take it in context of the entire post.

You might not like the message but it's a fact. Employees who have just started a new job, who are taking time and being paid to learn the ropes while taking up coworkers and managers time in the process and at the same time failing recognise and react to the reality that they are NOT YET valued personnel are entitled to no more than to be shown the door.

Don't agree? Fine. We don't have to agree, but flippant remarks don't change the facts.

Wanderer78 · 16-12-2015 09:51PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

sadly some employers see some employees in a productive way only. people are just not that. we are all complex emotional beings. people make a business happen. without which, that business would only be ideas on pieces of paper, i.e. people make things happen. the bottom line is not the be all and end all even though i can understand it from an employer's perspective as well. people require some sort of flexibility due to this complexity. we re not machines. we cant be just switched on and off. if you try make the workplace be purely about productivity, you're gonna soon be dealing with highly stressed staff, and also very unhappy people. this is not good for the workplace as highly stressed and unhappy people will quickly become very unproductive. there has to be some sort of flexibility and people are not all the same. one could be amazing at time management etc and another could be terrible. it may not be possible to make the terrible person change due to whatever. people are just complex but all should be respected, always.

sadly many do think like you in the workplace. this might just catch up on you.

Halloween Jack · 16-12-2015 09:53PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Hardly.

Take it in context of the entire post.

You might not like the message but it's a fact. Employees who have just started a new job, who are taking time and being paid to learn the ropes while taking up coworkers and managers time in the process and at the same time failing recognise and react to the reality that they are NOT YET valued personnel are entitled to no more than to be shown the door.

Don't agree? Fine. We don't have to agree, but flippant remarks don't change the facts.

You haven't presented any facts, just a sadly skewed opinion...

BreadnBuddha · 16-12-2015 09:57PM

Tazz T wrote: »

You should try that with the next plumber, electrician, painter, mechanic, etc you hire.

Those examples are trades people. Meaning they have training, experience and the capability to get the job done. The OP is an apprentice, expecting the Tradesman to carry his toolbox and sweep the floor for him because it's clocking off time.

Wanderer78 · 16-12-2015 09:59PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Those examples are trades people. Meaning they have training, experience and the capability to get the job done. The OP is an apprentice, expecting the Tradesman to carry his toolbox and sweep the floor for him because it's clocking off time.

:eek:

Mr_Muffin · 16-12-2015 10:03PM

So if you were to keep on leaving on time they would get rid of you?

What would be the reason for the dismissal - could they just say you 'wouldn't stay late in work everyday'?

STB. · 16-12-2015 10:06PM

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Every employee is a cost. Every employer needs to see a new employee progress from being a pure expense to a productive and efficient member of staff as quickly as possible. Get beyond thinking like an employee or you'll never be able to advance in the workplace.

If you want to keep the job you start on a trial basis, invest some personal time learning what you need and building momentum, or accept that you may be seen as nothing more than a hiring mistake. The OP's acting like he's already proven his worth, when all he's proving is that he's not capable of thinking beyond his own sense of entitlement.

If you already know your job and are efficient and productive NOW, by all means, begin and finish on time. You'll be effective enough in those core working hours to be valued, at least to a minimum standard.

The new guy leaving bang on time? Yeah, good luck with the next job interview. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I really hope you are not an employer or in any position of authority.

You'd find yourself before an employment tribunal with that bully boy attitude.

Wanderer78 · 16-12-2015 10:07PM

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

So if you were to keep on leaving on time they would get rid of you?

What would be the reason for the dismissal - could they just say you 'wouldn't stay late in work everyday'?

sadly people can actually be managed out the door. any cock and bull story can be created to do so. disturbing practice but very common, employers do regularly get away with it

Leaving work on time frowned upon. Mod warning post 1

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