The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

syklops · 10-12-2015 04:33AM

Well congratulations Minister Varadkar I will never be voting for you ever again. Something I've not said since around 2009, and before someone asks, yes I do live in his constituency.

Maybe if he had brought radical improvements to A&E. Maybe, I could have forgiven this, but A&E is as bad as its ever been, possibly at its worst in living memory.

Its not even been confirmed legal by the European court, so if we, the drinking classes get a last minute reprieve from Brussels, it will simply demonstrate that Minister Varadkar is incompetent in the role of Health Minister, and as a politician.

I have about a gallon of homemade mead fermenting away at home as we speak, and it will be ready for bottling when I get home next week. Its my first attempt, but I'm hopeful it will be drinkable. For this years Xmas present to my self, I'll get some more home brew equipment and attempt a batch of beer.

The black market for booze is going to sky rocket. Both for legit home brewers who dont mind selling a few bottles of their produce to friends, and for unscrupulous dealers who will cut their booze with anything that gives a kick, be it toilet duck or lethal industrial alcohol.

Did you ever wonder why so many blues players were blind? It was because during the heyday of Blues, it was during prohibition where alcohol was illegal and bootleg hooch cut with effectively anti-freeze was what people who wanted to drink were drinking. Methanol, used in anti-freeze and other industrial alcohols attacks the optic nerve and makes people blind. While this isn't prohibition, by doubling the price of alcohol, it is making it prohibitively expensive for many, and it will lead to deaths and blindness, I have no doubt of that at all.

So, lets all congratulate Minister Varadkar, Minister for Health, for being complicit in the deaths of Irish men and women.

NIMAN · 10-12-2015 04:49AM

A great move imho.

This country has a terrible relationship with alcohol. The Gov try to do something positive about it, but as usual they can do no right in some folks eyes.

lertsnim · 10-12-2015 05:27AM

NIMAN wrote: »

they can do no right in some folks eyes.

What he is doing and his reason for doing it do not go together. It is a pointless exercise and it's only beneficial to the pubs. It has nothing to do with the health of the nation.

NIMAN · 10-12-2015 05:52AM

lertsnim wrote: »

What he is doing and his reason for doing it do not go together. It is a pointless exercise and it's only beneficial to the pubs. It has nothing to do with the health of the nation.

Well there was a liver specialist on DriveTime tonight who thought it was a good idea, I'm with him.

Anything which has the potential to cut down on the amount of alcohol we drink can't be a bad move.

TallGlass · 10-12-2015 06:06AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Well there was a liver specialist on DriveTime tonight who thought it was a good idea, I'm with him.

Anything which has the potential to cut down on the amount of alcohol we drink can't be a bad move.

As I have said before and speaking from experience as someone in the family is an alcoholic.

That person couldn't give two ****s if its 5€ or 50€ a nagan of Vodka, they will get there hands on it either way and will continue to drink massive amounts of it, even if they have to beg, steal or borrow. You'll more than likely see a rise in crime with people robbing now to buy drink. They'll continue to end up in A&E with seizures and other illnesses related to drinking, this won't make one bit of difference to them, in fact it won't make a difference to a vast majority of heavy drinkers who are problematic. It's going to stop low level drinkers from drinking, so its a complete waste of time and is targeting all the wrong people.

NIMAN · 10-12-2015 06:09AM

It'll not change the alcoholics mind, but it should change those who aren't alcoholics who are damaging themselves and costing the health service money with their binge drinking.

TallGlass · 10-12-2015 06:19AM

NIMAN wrote: »

It'll not change the alcoholics mind, but it should change those who aren't alcoholics who are damaging themselves and costing the health service money with their binge drinking.

Well in answer to that NIMAN, I am fairly certain you don't wake up one day and decide to be an alcoholic, its progressive. As in you drink more and more, when things become additive, common sense goes out the window. So again, I can't see minimum pricing solving that issue.

Look at cigarettes, how much are they a pack, how much research to show they are lethal and will kill you. Yet they are still sold and people still buy them in big numbers.

This is a stupid exercise by Leo FG only designed to piss people off and not address any issues head on.

El Horseboxo · 10-12-2015 07:51AM

NIMAN wrote: »

It'll not change the alcoholics mind, but it should change those who aren't alcoholics who are damaging themselves and costing the health service money with their binge drinking.

You really think this will cut down on the amount of drink that groups of friends drink on a night out? Groups of friends with varying amounts of income available to them that may go binge drinking once or twice a week? Those in the group that can afford it will continue on as normal. And those that can't will try to keep up. If it can't be done financially the gap will be closed by buying stronger liquor instead of beer to get drunk easier or quicker.

Or if they do buy less cans for pre-drinks they may order a vodka or whiskey when they first get to the pub over their usual pint. Which to me seems to be one of the desired effects of this bill. Getting people back into pubs spending money!

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 10-12-2015 08:01AM

The kids will just gravitate more towards (much) cheaper drugs now instead. Easier and cheaper to double drop some pills than pay a tenner for a ****e bottle of wine.

TallGlass · 10-12-2015 09:50AM

Am I doing this right

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccalcoh4.htm

According to this a 500ml Vodka bottle at 38% gives a total of 150gram and at 10c a gram is that now 15.00€ a bottle, and if so is that pretax?

I assume my maths is incorrect on that.

Flex · 10-12-2015 10:15AM

NIMAN wrote: »

A great move imho.

This country has a terrible relationship with alcohol. The Gov try to do something positive about it, but as usual they can do no right in some folks eyes.

I disagree. Ireland's alcohol consumption is around 10.6 litres per year, the Western European average is also 10.6 litres. We're very much middle of the road.

I don't take he binge drinking issue seriously because of he ridiculously strict criteria our government has chosen to use to define it; roughly 3 pints of 4% abv beer in a 24 hour period without any consideration for pacing, drinking water in between, etc.

If there was a genuine and honest attempt to cut back on binge drinking there would be something to oblige a pub to stop serving a person after they had 3 pints (or 2.5 pints for something like Guinness with a higher than 4% abv). It's just a grab for votes from the VFI and LVA.

jack presley · 10-12-2015 10:17AM

TallGlass wrote: »

Am I doing this right

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccalcoh4.htm

According to this a 500ml Vodka bottle at 38% gives a total of 150gram and at 10c a gram is that now 15.00€ a bottle, and if so is that pretax?

I assume my maths is incorrect on that.

The minimum price figure will include the tax and excise.

Ogham · 10-12-2015 10:20AM

TallGlass wrote: »

Am I doing this right

http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/ccalcoh4.htm

According to this a 500ml Vodka bottle at 38% gives a total of 150gram and at 10c a gram is that now 15.00€ a bottle, and if so is that pretax?

I assume my maths is incorrect on that.

Yes - correct... but a normal bottle of Vodka is 700ml - so the minimum price would be €21. The minimum pricing will be based on post tax prices.

The figures in the press etc are all wrong - they are based on UK units of alcohol which is not the same as Irish units.
The correct figures are here : http://www.moneyguideireland.com/proposed-minimum-pricing-of-alcohol.html

StewartGriffin · 10-12-2015 10:28AM

Ogham wrote: »

The correct figures are here : http://www.moneyguideireland.com/proposed-minimum-pricing-of-alcohol.html

2 litre bottle of strong cider - 9.60 - OUCH! :eek:

And don't you just know we will get a scorching hot summer this year.

TallGlass · 10-12-2015 10:28AM

Ogham wrote: »

Yes - correct... but a normal bottle of Vodka is 700ml - so the minimum price would be €21. The minimum pricing will be based on post tax prices.

The figures in the press etc are all wrong - they are based on UK units of alcohol which is not the same as Irish units.
The correct figures are here : http://www.moneyguideireland.com/proposed-minimum-pricing-of-alcohol.html

Ok so the calc on that site is correct if you do the math.

Now the thing here is also what will kill it off even more, I read before and cannot find it now. But it said something along the lines of multipack offers would be banned, as in if the price of a can of beer is 2.50€ and you get a six back youll pay x6 per can and not per pack as previously.

Eugene Norman · 10-12-2015 10:38AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Well there was a liver specialist on DriveTime tonight who thought it was a good idea, I'm with him.

Anything which has the potential to cut down on the amount of alcohol we drink can't be a bad move.

Doctors would ban alcohol if they could. And generally doctors make bad statistics ans. There will no effect on liver health except that the people turning up with cirrhosis will have spent more money. ( or actually the same money as most alcoholics do their drinking in the pub).

macnug · 10-12-2015 10:40AM

By my calculations a 700ml of vodka should be around â‚¬22.40.

700ml x 0.4 = 280ml of alcohol.

280 x 0.8 (conversion from ml to gram) = 224g.

224 x â‚¬0.10 = â‚¬22.40.

Eugene Norman · 10-12-2015 10:43AM

NIMAN wrote: »

It'll not change the alcoholics mind, but it should change those who aren't alcoholics who are damaging themselves and costing the health service money with their binge drinking.

The vast majority of heavy drinkers in this country do their drinking in the pub. That won't change.

Mr. teddywinkles · 10-12-2015 10:56AM

Letree wrote: »

If it has no effect in consumption then why are the alcohol companies against it. They must feel threatened by it. The Scottish Whiskey Association fight very hard against the introduction in Scotland.

Anti competition laws. Cant set price of ur own products.

Ally Dick · 10-12-2015 11:05AM

Increase price of drink = Increased burglary

Ogham · 10-12-2015 11:10AM

macnug wrote: »

By my calculations a 700ml of vodka should be around â‚¬22.40.

700ml x 0.4 = 280ml of alcohol.

280 x 0.8 (conversion from ml to gram) = 224g.

224 x â‚¬0.10 = â‚¬22.40.

Thats ok based on 40% strength. The previous price (21) was based on 38%

the groutch · 10-12-2015 11:23AM

TallGlass wrote: »

Look at cigarettes, how much are they a pack, how much research to show they are lethal and will kill you. Yet they are still sold and people still buy them in big numbers.

even worse it's moved people on to the poorly regulated E-cigs.
god knows what chemicals they put in those things, and could well be worse for people's health than real cigs.

Beefy78 · 10-12-2015 11:35AM

NIMAN wrote: »

A great move imho.

This country has a terrible relationship with alcohol. The Gov try to do something positive about it, but as usual they can do no right in some folks eyes.

The law isn't designed to reduce consumption - it is designed purely to lift and shift consumption back into pubs.

jester77 · 10-12-2015 11:56AM

lol at these prices, my local supermarket had 2 crates of decent local beer for €9.99 last weekend. Ireland is a joke and these prices are just for the cheap barely drinkable crap. The decent alcohol will have to priced higher, wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I'll have to bring home a few bottles of spirits in my luggage with me when I am back for xmas.

Sh1tbag OToole · 10-12-2015 12:15PM

Beefy78 wrote: »

The law isn't designed to reduce consumption - it is designed purely to lift and shift consumption back into pubs.

I hate Fine Gael as much as the next lad but feck it I don't think that is a bad idea really. Back in the day most of the fogies would go to mass and the pub but now most are cooked up inside in a house or apartment with the Super SER on, getting ossified by themselves while watching some braindead sh1te on TV. A lot of these towns are dieing a death now, they are filled with blow-ins who don't know each other kind of like how it's gone in the States and England.

Sofiztikated · 10-12-2015 12:17PM

This is moronic in the extreme.

We have a problem with "getting f*cked up" in this country.

The offies closing at 10pm still don't do anything to curtail that. The current price of alcohol doesn't do anything to curtail that.

If I finish work tonight at 10pm, and want to get a couple of cans because I'm off tomorrow, and fancy a bit of socialising with my friends, I can go to a pub for 1 hour. I can't get any cans because the offie is closed. Do you know what I can get my hands on? Any number, flavour and special offer of illegal substances, that range from reasonably harmless, right through to soul destroying. I've noticed that in my circle of friends and acquaintances, the number of cans and bottles drank pre or post session remain the same, but the number of times a bag appears on a session has increased. Bag of what? Whatever your dealer says it is. Coke? Possibly. Speed? It might have shared the same space as amphetamines at some stage. MDMA? your guess is as good as mine. And all it takes to get it is a phone call. And I'm not in one of the cities, I'm in a regional town.

If I have €70 to burn on a night out, I'm probably going to spend it anyway. I'm sure a lot of people are similar. After (if) this is introduced, chances are that a lot of people might forego the cans, start on spirits, and the easily obtained, better priced, unknown substances will become even more common.

Nollog · 10-12-2015 12:37PM

Yeah, this law smacks of big cannabis clearing their rivals before legalisation!

VinLieger · 10-12-2015 12:42PM

/\/ollog wrote: »

Yeah, this law smacks of big cannabis clearing their rivals before legalisation!

Im hoping your being sarcastic

TallGlass · 10-12-2015 12:51PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

This is moronic in the extreme.

We have a problem with "getting f*cked up" in this country.

The offies closing at 10pm still don't do anything to curtail that. The current price of alcohol doesn't do anything to curtail that.

If I finish work tonight at 10pm, and want to get a couple of cans because I'm off tomorrow, and fancy a bit of socialising with my friends, I can go to a pub for 1 hour. I can't get any cans because the offie is closed. Do you know what I can get my hands on? Any number, flavour and special offer of illegal substances, that range from reasonably harmless, right through to soul destroying. I've noticed that in my circle of friends and acquaintances, the number of cans and bottles drank pre or post session remain the same, but the number of times a bag appears on a session has increased. Bag of what? Whatever your dealer says it is. Coke? Possibly. Speed? It might have shared the same space as amphetamines at some stage. MDMA? your guess is as good as mine. And all it takes to get it is a phone call. And I'm not in one of the cities, I'm in a regional town.

If I have €70 to burn on a night out, I'm probably going to spend it anyway. I'm sure a lot of people are similar. After (if) this is introduced, chances are that a lot of people might forego the cans, start on spirits, and the easily obtained, better priced, unknown substances will become even more common.

You can get a bag on call, before you can get a curry or chipper ordered.

dr.fuzzenstein · 10-12-2015 01:00PM

Gangs smuggling in turpentine in vodka bottles from China are already pissing themselves in anticipation of this. There will be an explosion of "genuine" hooch being sold under the table at markets. And the great thing is, they have already established supply routes for counterfeit cigarettes that contain all sorts of interesting ingredients besides tobacco.
This is like taking the market for illegal alcohol, wrapping it up in a huge parcel with a big bow on top of it and handing it to the scumbags. All their Christmases have just come true.
This will be prohibition "light", it will lead to an increase in gang activity, more people getting hospitalized due to dodgy hooch in Smirnoff bottles, gangland violence, increased cost for the health sector and less tax take due to falling sales of genuine alcohol.
But of course the Irish model is to just dictate law and prices from high upon one's ivory tower, God help us if anyone ever actually engaged with the actual problem, I mean that would take effort, brains and time, ain't nobody got time for that!
Sadly Varadker is abusing his position in the same way Micheal Martin did, instead of fixing the health service, come up with a big, controversial measure that will get the entire country arguing over it and hope nobody notices the crush of people on A&E trollies for 72 hours or more.

Unless of course customs, the navy and the Gardai can mount a massive campaign to police the entire Atlantic, monitor everything coming in at the borders, open every container, raid every market and keep a lid on gangs.
All this won't be cheap, but surely increased hospital attendance, gangland activity and billions spend on a war on drink will be worth it if we can save one life?
Yeah, right.

The Pub trade is dying - Minimum price for Alcohol?

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