Most important element of racing well (Aside from training)

Timmaay · 08-12-2015 01:55PM

Peterx wrote: »

Treat everyone ahead of you the same, just another target. Obviously if you know you are a better descender than they are that will shape your tactics but generally just give yourself a chance by pushing on.

Well said Peter, on the above, a useful mental trick I use when I'm suffering is I tell myself the chap in front of me is suffering also, and possibly a lot more than me, so suck it up!

ThisRegard · 08-12-2015 02:06PM

Timmaay wrote: »

Well said Peter, on the above, a useful mental trick I use when I'm suffering is I tell myself the chap in front of me is suffering also, and possibly a lot more than me, so suck it up!

And vice versa, you're ahead and really struggling on a climb, and you can hear the person behind is too and you know they're willing you to slow to a walk so they can grab a little rest, so you try not to.

demfad · 08-12-2015 02:54PM

Timmaay wrote: »

Haha, and if your on the receiving end of the above tactics, just remember full body contact is allowed in hill running!

That said, another benefit of the above tactics is that you are in a more favourable position give the elbow to the jaw.

Another tactic going on from the trying to lead during the narrow descent:

Looking at the race course the last section/s will be mainly downhill. There will be a point in the race where the person leading at that point is most likley to win due to how difficult passing is and/or how difficult they can make passing be. This should hold true no matter who is fitter. Always identify this point and make a burst to be leading your mini group at this point no matter what. You can use the remainder of the race to fend off (jaw elbow) your disgruntled opponents. Making sure you are leading the group at this one point significantly increases the chances of winning the group.

You should also be able to use other sneaky tactics to bust a gap now.
This one is a sure fire winner: The touch the brake trick. :pac:
If there is a runner or line of runners behind: pick a spot...prepare yourself....brake a little, enough so the runner behind sees....then immediately accelerate. The guy behind will brake in emergency mode and will lose time alone. If there is a line of runners you might get a cortina effect. The guy behind you will be blamed. Edit: (this is in jest, don't really do it):pac:

In hill races its paramount to have jogged the last section just before the race. Make sure that you know how to transition quickly from the down to any flat bit left. Otherwise youre vulnerable to a greyhound behind. Any runners still close will be thinking of murdering you in that flat bit. If you have practiced it in the warm up you'll be gone 10 metres up the path before they can do anything.

ThisRegard · 08-12-2015 04:23PM

demfad wrote: »

You should also be able to use other sneaky tactics to bust a gap now.
This one is a sure fire winner: The touch the brake trick.
If there is a runner or line of runners behind: pick a spot...prepare yourself....brake a little, enough so the runner behind sees....then immediately accelerate. The guy behind will brake in emergency mode and will lose time alone. If there is a line of runners you might get a cortina effect. The guy behind you will be blamed.

A bit nasty and potentially dangerous thing to do though.

demfad · 08-12-2015 04:33PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

A bit nasty and potentially dangerous thing to do though.

lol....So is full body contact I guess?

If I was beings serious.......yeah sure.

If there is a line of runners you might get a cortina effect. The guy behind you will be blamed.

I had put that line in to make sure it wouldn't be taken seriously. Have added a few pacmen now.

Enduro · 08-12-2015 04:57PM

Well, at least what's being discussed is racing as opposed to performance

Having raced demfad head to head many times I'll back him up when he says he is joking (Or if he isn't, I never noticed any dark-art tactics from him!). In fact there seems to be an excellent honour system in mountain running. People look out for each other. People regularly get called back when they take the wrong route etc. I'd certainly rather loose clean than win dirty, and I've never seen any other IMRA regular show any sign of anything different.

Timmaay · 08-12-2015 05:03PM

Ooh actually on the full body contact, I Duno if the route is the same now, but if your decending bray head, and are flatout with someone in front of you, then it's perfectly fine to full on body check them down straight on if a ridiculous 90degree left hand turn appears outa nowhere. Bonus points if ya manage to use them as your brake, so you make the corner but leave them in the ditch haha! I managed that very sequence of events about 5yrs ago now (obviously by accident ha), your man was not impressed in the slightest ha ðŸ˜•

ThisRegard · 08-12-2015 09:49PM

Enduro wrote: »

In fact there seems to be an excellent honour system in mountain running. People look out for each other. People regularly get called back when they take the wrong route etc. I'd certainly rather loose clean than win dirty, and I've never seen any other IMRA regular show any sign of anything different.

Yeah, I'm aware of this, which is why I thought it was a bit of an odd thing and didn't sit right.

I took the tone of the post wrong.

gucci · 09-12-2015 01:51PM

libelula wrote: »

I'd take the legs out from under someone for 151th place, so if that's petty then I win first prize :pac:
Picking someone off is still very very sweet, no matter how far back the pack you are.

Especially if its the same lad, at the same point...every week....at parkrun :pac:

Once he hits puberty he will probably get faster /stronger

Enduro · 09-12-2015 03:32PM

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Sorry I know this is a little vague but I thought it might be an interesting topic so I don't want to elaborate too much but looking to see what people think are the most important elements and characteristics to performing well on race day aside from just putting in the work.

Ability to dig deep? handle surges? maintain a particular effort?

Also what do people do to train themselves for this.

Myles, any thoughts yourself on this? (Well done for starting such an interesting thread)

Myles Splitz · 09-12-2015 04:00PM

Enduro wrote: »

Myles, any thoughts yourself on this? (Well done for starting such an interesting thread)

Was hoping I could sit back as I was delighted to see this thread grow legs.

I would be on the same page regarding the difference between racing and performance.

For me there are plenty of good performers but very few racers around these days. I think this is simply down to most of us being brought up without developing our "racecraft" (a Steve Cram quote). There is an anonymity around road racing which pits us against the clock and nothing more, to the point where beyond the benefits of drafting and race day adrenaline, the person might as well be running a time trial. With this in mind I can see where Sacksian is coming from with regards jumping on a train so to speak and try and get as close to redlining without going overboard.

Personally I know myself I am not a great racer but it is something I am trying to get better at with experience. I remember about 2 years ago being in great shape and having confidence in my fitness that allowed me to take a surge mid race into a strong head wind. Performance wise logic would normally tell me to tuck in and let others do the work but by working hard into the wind the pack followed suit and took lead when we got out of the wind. Because I hadn't completely went hell for leather I was able to tag in behind the pack, regroup and go again. This ultimately lead to a bigger PB than I would have had by just tagging and passing later as the pace was kept healthy.

I think one great example that often gets misinterpret the following race

Many see this as a display of courage and digging in but when you think about it the tactics are phenomenal. Steve Jones put in an early race surge, composes himself and slowly winds up the pace. This mean Shahanga's superior kick was nullified as he had to work too hard in order to catch up with Jones.

Colin Costello winning National Seniors 1500m a few years back is another great example as fitness wise he shouldn't have been in the same ball park as the lads.

With Marathon however I think that racing brain may be negative effect however. I would look at smoore (natural racer) v Krusty (natural performer) as two great examples of how neither of these is a bad thing but one can be more suited to a particular distance.

I think knowing your opposition to an extent (not even well just being able to read them on the day) can play a vital role. Race tactics are something which need to be tried and experimented with to the point where you know how to implement your strengths to work for you beyond just faster guys kick harder at the end.

Dubgal72 · 11-12-2015 09:51PM

Coming from a pacifist, this might sound a teensy bit extreme, but for me, one of the most important elements of racing well is the ability to hate and - ahem - *kill*

When I was a teen, I made little or no pretence at getting to know my rivals, apart from my club mates and eventually a few athletes I encountered on athletic and social occasions when at TCD. Now, I am - of course - not that 'all or nothing girl' but I still think a healthy aversion to your competitors when you toe that line is an important part of racing well. Funny enough, coachy said something similar recently; something like 'I hated their guts, each and every one'

Am going to cut and paste KU's approaches for the various distances to my brain and hope it sticks. 'Racecraft' is an interesting one and I suppose encompasses part of the 'ruled by the clock' syndrome we have in athletics. I was told recently (coachy again) to 'race the man/woman and the times will come by themselves'...

Itziger · 12-12-2015 07:56PM

Early part of this year was so enjoyable for me in the 'racing' arena. Did a few runs, from 10k to Half, where things went mostly right and one time wrong. But the 'wrong' was all part of the learning too.

Let me explain:

First race was a 12.x km trail race. I found myself on my tod after the very stiff first 2k of climbing and remained alone till about km 8 or nearly 9. When I saw a bloke up ahead of me after such a long time without visual evidence that I wasn't just out for a hard training run, it gave me a boost. Even if he was a good 100mt ahead. I eventually caught him and passed him. It was the beginning of a beautiful relationship. Beautiful for me anyway. In the next 2 races I did, something similar happened. He goes out harder than me and I catch him. But the last time it happened there was a major difference.

I had trained hard for this Half and was hoping for 1.20.5x. A bit ambitious, but whatever. On the day I was running with a group of 5 or so and we were slightly behind my target pace at halfway. After we turned and had a tailwind, I decided to try to break away. (This was a mistake but sometimes ya gotta go for it, right?) I didn't recognise the lads in the group, but later looking at results and stalking - as you do - I saw that most of them were faster than me. Now, had I stayed with them I would probably have had a bit in the tank for the last 5k when they went by me. I did manage to hang onto and eventually beat the straggler among them. Funny thing is I also caught and beat my old mate from the previous two races. He must have been 300 metres ahead at km 11. A big swing. (Only managed 1.22.05 in the end)

Later in the year when I moved onto marathons I rarely got that feeling of racing anyone. Just bloody trying to keep my own pace and get to the end. The shorter stuff tends to be more fun in that way, no? Over 10k or a Half you spot runners, single or little groups and you plot and decide tactics. Looking forward to trying a few 10k races again in 2016.

Thing about time is, there's an absolute obsession with it all the way from World Records to the 5hr marathoner.

Most important element of racing well (Aside from training)

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