How necessary are cattle sheds?

djmc · 08-12-2015 10:35AM

The west coast of Ireland certainly gets more driving rain and wind than the rest of the country parts of Kerry being the highest rainfall and Wexford having the least.
I'd think if you had an out wintering pad or concrete slab in most places along the west coast
The cattle would prefer a shed or lean to or some type of cover they could go under in driving rain and sleet.
Outdoors with plenty of acreage they will find there own shelter if they have free range at very low stocking rates.
The cattle most suitable for this Dexter's Kerry's highlands as they have lighter carcase weights but we are penalized by the factory's as they won't meet the weight age or spec that the market demand's
So unfortunately the cattle most suitable for marginal ground probably won't leave a return for your efforts and l suppose it's probably going the same with mountain sheep.

Suckler · 08-12-2015 10:59AM

Bullocks wrote: »

On dry parts of the country I'd say go for it but here in the west with longer wetter winters it wouldn't be for me , I've had enough of driving through gutter up to the front axle throwing out a bale !

Same. Land from longford west that has been outwintered still bares the canal scars to the ring feeders for a long time after. Our land had that treatment for too long. Soft spots around the ring feeders took three times the drying time of the rest of the ground and was very dependent on a good april/may.

20silkcut · 08-12-2015 11:23AM

_Brian wrote: »

I don't know.. In the spring we would have the slatted shed door open to get them used to being outside..
Even though the yard is very sheltered they always go into the slats to lie for the night or during the day if its raining..

I think in cold wet weather being out 24*7 on concrete yard would get dirty and miserable, being cold is one thing, but cold and wet and there is no way cattle are thriving. You'd end with alot of stock finishing the winter at the same weight they started and that's no good.. By the time you've enough shelter provided so they aren't cold and wet its what we call a shed, a huge concrete floor shed, now slats are looking like a good option in this shed !!

If you had a yard big enough for 50 - 100 head of stock the run off would be shocking, imagine the weekend gone by it would take some storage to get past 5 months rain on this yard.

And as part-timers its great comfort to have stock in for feeding on these dark windy wet nights, it makes a pleasure of the job especially rather than the drudgery of stock being out in a field at feeders.

Yes see what you mean especially the run off from a concrete yard with 100 cattle would be horrendous.
Sheds are a definite necessity there.

With smaller numbers it is a more reasonable prospect.

A few good cypress tress surrounding a concrete yard on all sides would give good shelter and be reasonably comfortable for 20-30 cattle.

_Brian · 08-12-2015 12:27PM

But you'd have the expense of a tank to collect the run off, the added expense of spreading dirty water.
The yard would need scraping regularly particularly at feeding face.

Before my dad died we had this yard style set up for 15 cows and it was a lot of work to keep clean and constant problems with huge volumes of runoff, we were skirting a pollution fine regularly.

I'd wager over 5-10 years your spending the cost of a slatted shed ++ and if the shed is well laid out you shouldn't have respitory issues in it.

davidk1394 · 08-12-2015 12:41PM

We're wintering all our weanlings outside. Their eating on hard core and is well sheltered. It was an old quarry so does the job just fine

Bullocks · 08-12-2015 01:34PM

davidk1394 wrote: »

We're wintering all our weanlings outside. Their eating on hard core and is well sheltered. It was an old quarry so does the job just fine

Thats ideal but not everybody will have somewhere like that unfortunately.
I would say that if you could rent/buy a dry winterage it would be better than sheds any day but it is easier said than done to find places like that and I think by the letter of the law you should still have slurry/dung storage for your cattle even if you do have good outwintering ground and never put the cattle in

patsy_mccabe · 08-12-2015 02:08PM

If you have a winterage and are only part-time farming, how do you herd the cattle at this time of the year. It would be dark going to work and dark when you come home.

Kovu · 08-12-2015 02:24PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

If you have a winterage and are only part-time farming, how do you herd the cattle at this time of the year. It would be dark going to work and dark when you come home.

Wasn't there a thread before about GPS and finding cattle in the dark......think someone even suggested LED collars

djmc · 08-12-2015 02:34PM

I don't think there would be any herding just drop a bale once a week on the weekend. Maybe nuts twice a week.
I know of part time farmers with maybe 5 cows on 50 acres which would be unheard of on good land.
A lot of older farmers pension age would have very low stocking rates which IMO is key to cheap out wintering.
I know a few old lads that never made silage

barnaman · 08-12-2015 03:13PM

djmc wrote: »

I don't think there would be any herding just drop a bale once a week on the weekend. Maybe nuts twice a week.
I know of part time farmers with maybe 5 cows on 50 acres which would be unheard of on good land.
A lot of older farmers pension age would have very low stocking rates which IMO is key to cheap out wintering.
I know a few old lads that never made silage

Still should be herding or else its poor farming. I try and check my stock 2 a day. Granted I am ft farming but any lad droping a bale at the weekend and relying on neighbours to spot an animal down etc is acting the maggot.
With out wintering, low density and dry rocky land with shelter ie bushes is grand. Do a bit myself along with sheds. I try, even though I have sheds, to calve outdoors if at all possible. Hardier calves I was told and stuck with it as they way it was done. Never get pneumonia. All that said calving outside takes more time than in a shed with a camera and not suitable really for pt farming.

Base price · 08-12-2015 05:59PM

Cavanjack wrote: »

Some going rearing that number of calves. What age do you sell them at?

Anything from weaned onwards but mostly 16 to 20 months.

davidk1394 · 08-12-2015 06:10PM

Bullocks wrote: »

Thats ideal but not everybody will have somewhere like that unfortunately.
I would say that if you could rent/buy a dry winterage it would be better than sheds any day but it is easier said than done to find places like that and I think by the letter of the law you should still have slurry/dung storage for your cattle even if you do have good outwintering ground and never put the cattle in

Would kale be a viable option instead of a shed on moderately dry ground

djmc · 08-12-2015 06:27PM

I would think twice a day is a bit of an overkill
Every second day for dry animals wouldn't be too bad.
I have all cattle housed for winter and wouldn't let anything calve outside until clocks change end of April.
Herding is no problem when you are giving them a bit of ration as they come running when ever you arrive.

greysides · 08-12-2015 06:42PM

I know a man with dairy cows in what's basically a cubicle house with no roof. Some wind protection around the outside from rubber sheets to about 4' and from an earth mound further out that shelters from the sides not protected by the rest of the yard. He was happy with how cows did on it last year. The roof is planned for a later date....

Dozer1 · 08-12-2015 09:50PM

I've cattle in 3 places this winter, most are in a fairly new airy slatted shed happy out these are spring calvers and heifers from weanling to 2 year old's, yes there is the odd weanling with a snotty nose but they are in good enough order.

I have 3 cows tied into the old style cubicles at my dad's place happy out aswell.

Then I have 11 cows and calves and the bull here in an old cubicle shed with a yard being fed outside, by far and away they are the most miserable, they are stiff and cold in themselves, I had planned out wintering them but the damage they were doing to good land wasn't acceptable, definitely forcing me to look at another shed here for them in a year or 2.

the best cattle I ever out wintered was in a forest I owned, it was super, they was a great thrive in them all winter and the going through the trees kept them as warm as a lagging jacket. But department don't think that you should mix cattle and trees...is it not the most natural place for them

mf240 · 08-12-2015 10:17PM

What i do is make silage in the summer when the weather is good. Then in the winter when the weather is bad i put them in and feed it too them. Its working well and i can see it catching on!!

barnaman · 08-12-2015 10:23PM

http://www.sarpysam.com/plugin/tag/snow

Who needs sheds!?

patsy_mccabe · 08-12-2015 11:16PM

Dozer1 wrote: »

...... the best cattle I ever out wintered was in a forest I owned, it was super, they was a great thrive in them all winter and the going through the trees kept them as warm as a lagging jacket. But department don't think that you should mix cattle and trees...is it not the most natural place for them

Often wondered about that. If nature had it's way, you'd think when the weather turns really bad, that's where they'd head.....to the cover of the trees.

djmc · 08-12-2015 11:34PM

I once offered to help feed an old mans cattle during a bad winter while he was in hospital he looked at me and said
Ara there fine out boy can't they be noseing the snow.
They same man never lost an animal to hunger and l never saw a thin beast on his farm

https://www.google.ie/search?q=highland+cattle&rlz=1Y3KTZR_enIE561IE561&prmd=ivmn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitzLPsps3JAhXGfw8KHeJoAgoQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=qEumDLJ8b2XSXM%3A

Limestone Cowboy · 08-12-2015 11:39PM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Often wondered about that. If nature had it's way, you'd think when the weather turns really bad, that's where they'd head.....to the cover of the trees.

This is where I found them Sunday!

patsy_mccabe · 08-12-2015 11:43PM

What cold!

angusangus · 09-12-2015 12:30AM

If you had a wooded area and say put down hardcore just outside it and fence around the wood !! They would come out to eat round bales and have the shelter of the woods ! What view has the department on this?

Timmaay · 09-12-2015 01:51AM

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Often wondered about that. If nature had it's way, you'd think when the weather turns really bad, that's where they'd head.....to the cover of the trees.

Hmmm could help with our climate change carbon emissions thingy, let us have an alternative to sheds and slurry storage in afew acres of forestry, they help offset the methane from the animals, very natural environment for them to be wintered in (alongside the grass fed there is a marketing angle on this haha).

Timmaay · 09-12-2015 01:54AM

angusangus wrote: »

If you had a wooded area and say put down hardcore just outside it and fence around the wood !! They would come out to eat round bales and have the shelter of the woods ! What view has the department on this?

AFAIK once you have your slurry storage requirements on paper there is no issue, the easiest and usually cheapest way to get over the line here is with straw bedding and catch the runoff from it.

Milked out · 09-12-2015 09:52AM

It's tb would be my concern there. Deer etc. Out wintering is fine if small numbers and an area that won't be needed till the following June but if putting down an area of concrete for em with the level of runoff the money spent to catch the extra water would easily roof it. Well designed shed should be no problem

CHOPS01 · 02-01-2016 12:07AM

Spent the day back the other side of the county today. Plenty of healthy content looking cows out on the rocks around Fanore and BallyVaughan bad and all as the day was.
Spent as much time looking over stone walls as I did at the road!

Markcheese · 02-01-2016 12:08PM

Timmaay wrote:

Hmmm could help with our climate change carbon emissions thingy, let us have an alternative to sheds and slurry storage in afew acres of forestry, they help offset the methane from the animals, very natural environment for them to be wintered in (alongside the grass fed there is a marketing angle on this haha).

How many farmers have spent a fortune on a wet corner of a field that'll never be productive when they could have got a grant to stick it under trees , I think you only need 1/4 acre in 1 block ...

How necessary are cattle sheds?

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