How necessary are cattle sheds?

20silkcut

As far as I can see cattle are as well off out in the open on a concrete slab with a wall and canopy for shelter or a good line of trees.
Outlier cattle are more sought after and perceived as hardier than cattle kept in sheds.
Obviously sick animals and calving cows need some sort of sheds.
But most shed building is driven by department dislike for soiled water run off from yards and of course the construction lobby are more than happy to advocate more sheds.
But can those issues be solved easier??

Muckit

Such a time to be bringing this up! Has the weather not affected your area at all?

Pollution would be the biggest issue. Everybody likes clean drinking water! The money you would save on building the shed you would have to spend on storage tanks for effluent.

patsy_mccabe

I have cattle still out. I would normally have them all in by now, but I still have grass and I don't like leaving a butt over the winter. Funny thing is despite the bad weather, the ones outside look a lot more content. I even have some in a very exposed field with no shelter from the west.
The cattle inside all look sore on their feet and fairly miserable to be honest.

I bought a field this year and it is right beside our own. I have cattle there and they are not even marking it. I got it tested and it had index 1 for both P and K. PH was way way down too. Our own place looks a lot better but the cattle would cut it to pieces. The poorer land just seems to have a firmer soil structure. I think when you fertilise soil it becomes a lot looser when it gets wet.

djmc

I would like to see department pushing to have more cattle out wintered at low stocking rates
Even a push to have a premium payment for rear breeds including other EU breed's such as highland and Galloway etc.
I think it would be good for the environment and eco system overall.
As far as wintering pads once animals can have shelter from driving rain and wind they should be OK.
Unfortunately we have a situation at the moment
Where farmers can loose large parts of there income under the nitrates directive without any evidence of pollution.
So until that changes out wintering would be like Russian roulette depending on the inspector you get on the day.

20silkcut

Muckit wrote: »

Such a time to be bringing this up! Has the weather not affected your area at all?

Pollution would be the biggest issue. Everybody likes clean drinking water! The money you would save on building the shed you would have to spend on storage tanks for effluent.

I heard local farmers talking about never having as much pneumonia as this year from cattle in sheds.

_Brian

20silkcut wrote: »

I heard local farmers talking about never having as much pneumonia as this year from cattle in sheds.

The yo-yo temperatures surely to blame. 12-13c daytime temps is hard on housed stock.
However, our Heavy ground isn't capable of wintering stock, they'd be to their bellies in mud and ground wouldn't recover till July after it.

Our few are content in, had them out for a dose at weekend and they are looking well fleshed. Feet are only sore for a few days.

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I have cattle still out. I would normally have them all in by now, but I still have grass and I don't like leaving a butt over the winter. Funny thing is despite the bad weather, the ones outside look a lot more content. I even have some in a very exposed field with no shelter from the west.
The cattle inside all look sore on their feet and fairly miserable to be honest.

I bought a field this year and it is right beside our own. I have cattle there and they are not even marking it. I got it tested and it had index 1 for both P and K. PH was way way down too. Our own place looks a lot better but the cattle would cut it to pieces. The poorer land just seems to have a firmer soil structure. I think when you fertilise soil it becomes a lot looser when it gets wet.

I have 10 weanling heifer in a dry field with very little shelter less than a 1/4 mile from the sea and they are doing mighty despite the weather. Some spot to put up a fleece on them.

longgonesilver

Are you being paid to have them outside?

Kovu

I'd say the major determining factor is ground type.

If you live near good rocky land like Limestone above, no they are not a necessity, cattle will be happy out on dry enough ground. Even midlands with loamy soils and good drainage they're grand, once they've the acreage to wander instead of plough.

However, here in the deep whesht we have daub and moor and boggy type soil. We only built a slatted shed in 2000/2001 after the big Christmas Eve storm knocked a hayshed.
Before that it was byre with cows chained up or cattle out on our driest ground with an old house and good hedges to keep them happy. Would I go back to it? Fcuk no. The hardship alone was unreal, walking out in all weather over 15 acres of small fields to find them. Calves born and awol, frost killing the nerves in their ears, carting hay/silage to them all the time mucking up the field more and more each time.
Byre was ok but cows would forget how to walk, must have played havoc with their heads too, staring at a wall for five months. Pull the neck off themselves for two days after going in. Even seen one cow cut her neck on the chain and the skin grew over the chain as it wasn't spotted. Dad had to reopen the wound pulling the chain out.

Having said that, I know fellas who still use byres and wouldn't change it for the world. One mad auld fella in his 70s still chains his bull in the shed!!

memorystick

Try lighting a Silk Cut under a ditch today!

Mad4simmental

A big builder around here is after doing allot of jobs for a few dairy farmers. He done all the ground work and put in nice cement floors and hundreds of cubicles. The fecker went AWOL and never put up the sides or roof on any of them.

Limestone Cowboy

longgonesilver wrote: »

Are you being paid to have them outside?

Get a bit for grazing the winterages properly but don't put weanlings to the winterage. Leave them on the green land for the winter.

sonnybill

I out winter everything and they are fine .. Odd early calf needs to be minded alright but generally they are the finest .. Sheds IMO are a haven for scour in sucklers .. Like head lice in a packed classroom

Base price

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I have cattle still out. I would normally have them all in by now, but I still have grass and I don't like leaving a butt over the winter. Funny thing is despite the bad weather, the ones outside look a lot more content. I even have some in a very exposed field with no shelter from the west.
The cattle inside all look sore on their feet and fairly miserable to be honest.

I bought a field this year and it is right beside our own. I have cattle there and they are not even marking it. I got it tested and it had index 1 for both P and K. PH was way way down too. Our own place looks a lot better but the cattle would cut it to pieces. The poorer land just seems to have a firmer soil structure. I think when you fertilise soil it becomes a lot looser when it gets wet.

All of ours are still out and will stay out. When the temperature starts to drop we will move them closer to the yard and they will have access to dry bedded sheds. Having said that the majority are this years calves so they are not hard on the ground. We have a small out farm that is excellent winterage (22 acres) and is ideal for older stock so we may put the strongest group into it after Christmas. Prefer stock to be out if at all possible as they fair better than confined to sheds.
Nothing will be going into the slatted unit. I personally hate them and reckon they are hard on stock. We normally bed the slats and use it as an overspill shed for rearing calves.

barnaman

Depends on how many cattle you have firstly and land type secondly. All good points about health cattle and wondering wheither to bother building a shed in 2016 or not. If you have a 200 cattle sheds are a necessity.

Kovu

Moved some posts to here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057525698

Seemed more suitable!

Miname

Once you build a shed you'll never go back. This craic of ploughing fields drawing bales and searching for animals with a flash lamp just doesn't work especially if your land spends the next four months trying to repair itself . All well and good leaving a couple of light weanlings out but try leaving fifty sucklers out over the winter. Il guarantee the cows will have a great coat alright and you'll want one yourself but calves lying in ploughed up fields of muck would prefer taking the chance of a scour to get a warm bed for a few nights.

patsy_mccabe

Take a drive through the Burren in the middle of winter. You might take a different view.

Miname

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Take a drive through the Burren in the middle of winter. You might take a different view.

The burren is one area in Ireland. It's not an argument for the rest of the farming community. How does it pay to sacrifice a years production on good ground just because of the lack of a shed. Ground is too expensive not to be making the most of it.

Grueller

Farming part time the last thing I want is to arrive home in the black dark and pishing rain like this evening to start hauling bales through slop out to round feeders and looking for that cow that didn't come to the feeder with a flashlamp.
No way could I do without sheds. Disease can be managed reasonably well by not overstocking sheds and I also let all autumn calves creep out to a two acre paddock. Either have no sheds and very lightly stocked or haave enough sheds. Never mind this packing them into sheds lark.

Kovu

I have to say a few ways we reduced pneumonia in weanlings & scour in the shed to almost nil by
1) Cleaning the vents every spring, you would not believe the filth that blocks them up.
2) Putting all weanlings in the top pen at the sliding door and leaving it open with the creepfeeder there so air blows in the top over it.
3)Calving out of the pens in a secure dry pen, with no draught getting in. Then bedding the lying area in the shed and not allowing cows back, calf learns to use the weanling gate to go in/out. Bedding stays dry.

In other words, common sense!

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Take a drive through the Burren in the middle of winter. You might take a different view.

Different countryside here in fairness, I wouldn't leave cows on the good land during the winter either. Doesn't make any difference having them around the rocks and bushes for the winter because it isint good for much else. I try and save a bit of grass on the driest of the good land and run a handful of handyish weanlings on it though. They do mighty over the winter with a few kilo's of meal without ploughing the place and when they hit the Mart next March surrounded by cattle covered in sh1t after coming out of sheds they are very saleable. If they are standing in muck outside they get perished looking though, need dry ground for it to work.

keep going

ive 35 weanlings running over nearly 40(less than 30 grass) acres including rock at the moment and they are flying it.feeding kilo and half of rolled barley and no silage.reckon ill get at least until new years day out of it but could be more and they will come off it then until maybe first week in april.50 kg s of rolled barley costing 10 e aday so cheap wintering.ive done with cows as well and it s the work that catches you,no bother when they were dry but it torture to get cows near calving or after calving:( out.

Birdnuts

I guess it depends on your landtype and size of farm. Couldn't do without a shed on my place in North Mayo as ground is bottomless at this time of year and the only drier fields I have are kept for the sheep. I'm on a North facing coast too so no decent shelter to be had for larger stock

Base price

barnaman wrote: »

Depends on how many cattle you have firstly and land type secondly. All good points about health cattle and wondering wheither to bother building a shed in 2016 or not. If you have a 200 cattle sheds are a necessity.

Actually IMO it depends on how good a livestock manager you are and how hard you are prepared to work.
I know a dairy farmer who milks over 250 cows and winters them out on kale and an stand off pad.
Another full time farmer produces 20 odd cracking weanlings from his farm of less than 50 iffy/marginal acres.
We normally rear 250 to 300 calves every year and followers on slightly over 100 acres with limited accommodation - mostly old stone sheds.

CloughCasey1

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Take a drive through the Burren in the middle of winter. You might take a different view.

We're not all as lucky as LC. Id say every drop of rain is swallowed up in an instant. We have good ground here and this is only second yr of our straw shed but the amount of time and waste saved is unreal. Also the wet yrs stock went back to fook and looked miserable out. They are lying in the straw in front of me here stretched out as if it was a summers evening with the sun on their backs.

20silkcut

Miname wrote: »

Once you build a shed you'll never go back. This craic of ploughing fields drawing bales and searching for animals with a flash lamp just doesn't work especially if your land spends the next four months trying to repair itself . All well and good leaving a couple of light weanlings out but try leaving fifty sucklers out over the winter. Il guarantee the cows will have a great coat alright and you'll want one yourself but calves lying in ploughed up fields of muck would prefer taking the chance of a scour to get a warm bed for a few nights.

All of the above is obvious and I never suggested leaving cattle out on the land.

It's just the sheds I want to do away with.

Cattle would be just as happy on a concrete slab with minimal shelter than a big enclosed shed.

It's the regulations that force us to roof such areas but from an animal welfare point of view topless is better.

Bullocks

20silkcut wrote: »

All of the above is obvious and I never suggested leaving cattle out on the land.

It's just the sheds I want to do away with.

Cattle would be just as happy on a concrete slab with minimal shelter than a big enclosed shed.

It's the regulations that force us to roof such areas but from an animal welfare point of view topless is better.

Don't know how happy they would be on a concrete slab , maybe rubber mats under them or wood chip to keep them warm but not bare concrete . On dry parts of the country I'd say go for it but here in the west with longer wetter winters it wouldn't be for me , I've had enough of driving through gutter up to the front axle throwing out a bale !

duckduck1991

Ah sur be Jeyus we all need an ould shed for the cattle

_Brian

20silkcut wrote: »

All of the above is obvious and I never suggested leaving cattle out on the land.

It's just the sheds I want to do away with.

Cattle would be just as happy on a concrete slab with minimal shelter than a big enclosed shed.

It's the regulations that force us to roof such areas but from an animal welfare point of view topless is better.

I don't know.. In the spring we would have the slatted shed door open to get them used to being outside..
Even though the yard is very sheltered they always go into the slats to lie for the night or during the day if its raining..

I think in cold wet weather being out 24*7 on concrete yard would get dirty and miserable, being cold is one thing, but cold and wet and there is no way cattle are thriving. You'd end with alot of stock finishing the winter at the same weight they started and that's no good.. By the time you've enough shelter provided so they aren't cold and wet its what we call a shed, a huge concrete floor shed, now slats are looking like a good option in this shed !!

If you had a yard big enough for 50 - 100 head of stock the run off would be shocking, imagine the weekend gone by it would take some storage to get past 5 months rain on this yard.

And as part-timers its great comfort to have stock in for feeding on these dark windy wet nights, it makes a pleasure of the job especially rather than the drudgery of stock being out in a field at feeders.

Cavanjack

Base price wrote: »

Actually IMO it depends on how good a livestock manager you are and how hard you are prepared to work.
I know a dairy farmer who milks over 250 cows and winters them out on kale and an stand off pad.
Another full time farmer produces 20 odd cracking weanlings from his farm of less than 50 iffy/marginal acres.
We normally rear 250 to 300 calves every year and followers on slightly over 100 acres with limited accommodation - mostly old stone sheds.

Some going rearing that number of calves. What age do you sell them at?

djmc

The west coast of Ireland certainly gets more driving rain and wind than the rest of the country parts of Kerry being the highest rainfall and Wexford having the least.
I'd think if you had an out wintering pad or concrete slab in most places along the west coast
The cattle would prefer a shed or lean to or some type of cover they could go under in driving rain and sleet.
Outdoors with plenty of acreage they will find there own shelter if they have free range at very low stocking rates.
The cattle most suitable for this Dexter's Kerry's highlands as they have lighter carcase weights but we are penalized by the factory's as they won't meet the weight age or spec that the market demand's
So unfortunately the cattle most suitable for marginal ground probably won't leave a return for your efforts and l suppose it's probably going the same with mountain sheep.

Suckler

Bullocks wrote: »

On dry parts of the country I'd say go for it but here in the west with longer wetter winters it wouldn't be for me , I've had enough of driving through gutter up to the front axle throwing out a bale !

Same. Land from longford west that has been outwintered still bares the canal scars to the ring feeders for a long time after. Our land had that treatment for too long. Soft spots around the ring feeders took three times the drying time of the rest of the ground and was very dependent on a good april/may.

20silkcut

_Brian wrote: »

I don't know.. In the spring we would have the slatted shed door open to get them used to being outside..
Even though the yard is very sheltered they always go into the slats to lie for the night or during the day if its raining..

I think in cold wet weather being out 24*7 on concrete yard would get dirty and miserable, being cold is one thing, but cold and wet and there is no way cattle are thriving. You'd end with alot of stock finishing the winter at the same weight they started and that's no good.. By the time you've enough shelter provided so they aren't cold and wet its what we call a shed, a huge concrete floor shed, now slats are looking like a good option in this shed !!

If you had a yard big enough for 50 - 100 head of stock the run off would be shocking, imagine the weekend gone by it would take some storage to get past 5 months rain on this yard.

And as part-timers its great comfort to have stock in for feeding on these dark windy wet nights, it makes a pleasure of the job especially rather than the drudgery of stock being out in a field at feeders.

Yes see what you mean especially the run off from a concrete yard with 100 cattle would be horrendous.
Sheds are a definite necessity there.

With smaller numbers it is a more reasonable prospect.

A few good cypress tress surrounding a concrete yard on all sides would give good shelter and be reasonably comfortable for 20-30 cattle.

_Brian

But you'd have the expense of a tank to collect the run off, the added expense of spreading dirty water.
The yard would need scraping regularly particularly at feeding face.

Before my dad died we had this yard style set up for 15 cows and it was a lot of work to keep clean and constant problems with huge volumes of runoff, we were skirting a pollution fine regularly.

I'd wager over 5-10 years your spending the cost of a slatted shed ++ and if the shed is well laid out you shouldn't have respitory issues in it.

davidk1394

We're wintering all our weanlings outside. Their eating on hard core and is well sheltered. It was an old quarry so does the job just fine

Bullocks

davidk1394 wrote: »

We're wintering all our weanlings outside. Their eating on hard core and is well sheltered. It was an old quarry so does the job just fine

Thats ideal but not everybody will have somewhere like that unfortunately.
I would say that if you could rent/buy a dry winterage it would be better than sheds any day but it is easier said than done to find places like that and I think by the letter of the law you should still have slurry/dung storage for your cattle even if you do have good outwintering ground and never put the cattle in

patsy_mccabe

If you have a winterage and are only part-time farming, how do you herd the cattle at this time of the year. It would be dark going to work and dark when you come home.

Kovu

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

If you have a winterage and are only part-time farming, how do you herd the cattle at this time of the year. It would be dark going to work and dark when you come home.

Wasn't there a thread before about GPS and finding cattle in the dark......think someone even suggested LED collars

djmc

I don't think there would be any herding just drop a bale once a week on the weekend. Maybe nuts twice a week.
I know of part time farmers with maybe 5 cows on 50 acres which would be unheard of on good land.
A lot of older farmers pension age would have very low stocking rates which IMO is key to cheap out wintering.
I know a few old lads that never made silage

barnaman

djmc wrote: »

I don't think there would be any herding just drop a bale once a week on the weekend. Maybe nuts twice a week.
I know of part time farmers with maybe 5 cows on 50 acres which would be unheard of on good land.
A lot of older farmers pension age would have very low stocking rates which IMO is key to cheap out wintering.
I know a few old lads that never made silage

Still should be herding or else its poor farming. I try and check my stock 2 a day. Granted I am ft farming but any lad droping a bale at the weekend and relying on neighbours to spot an animal down etc is acting the maggot.
With out wintering, low density and dry rocky land with shelter ie bushes is grand. Do a bit myself along with sheds. I try, even though I have sheds, to calve outdoors if at all possible. Hardier calves I was told and stuck with it as they way it was done. Never get pneumonia. All that said calving outside takes more time than in a shed with a camera and not suitable really for pt farming.

Base price

Cavanjack wrote: »

Some going rearing that number of calves. What age do you sell them at?

Anything from weaned onwards but mostly 16 to 20 months.

davidk1394

Bullocks wrote: »

Thats ideal but not everybody will have somewhere like that unfortunately.
I would say that if you could rent/buy a dry winterage it would be better than sheds any day but it is easier said than done to find places like that and I think by the letter of the law you should still have slurry/dung storage for your cattle even if you do have good outwintering ground and never put the cattle in

Would kale be a viable option instead of a shed on moderately dry ground

djmc

I would think twice a day is a bit of an overkill
Every second day for dry animals wouldn't be too bad.
I have all cattle housed for winter and wouldn't let anything calve outside until clocks change end of April.
Herding is no problem when you are giving them a bit of ration as they come running when ever you arrive.

greysides

I know a man with dairy cows in what's basically a cubicle house with no roof. Some wind protection around the outside from rubber sheets to about 4' and from an earth mound further out that shelters from the sides not protected by the rest of the yard. He was happy with how cows did on it last year. The roof is planned for a later date....

Dozer1

I've cattle in 3 places this winter, most are in a fairly new airy slatted shed happy out these are spring calvers and heifers from weanling to 2 year old's, yes there is the odd weanling with a snotty nose but they are in good enough order.

I have 3 cows tied into the old style cubicles at my dad's place happy out aswell.

Then I have 11 cows and calves and the bull here in an old cubicle shed with a yard being fed outside, by far and away they are the most miserable, they are stiff and cold in themselves, I had planned out wintering them but the damage they were doing to good land wasn't acceptable, definitely forcing me to look at another shed here for them in a year or 2.

the best cattle I ever out wintered was in a forest I owned, it was super, they was a great thrive in them all winter and the going through the trees kept them as warm as a lagging jacket. But department don't think that you should mix cattle and trees...is it not the most natural place for them

mf240

What i do is make silage in the summer when the weather is good. Then in the winter when the weather is bad i put them in and feed it too them. Its working well and i can see it catching on!!

barnaman

http://www.sarpysam.com/plugin/tag/snow

Who needs sheds!?

patsy_mccabe

Dozer1 wrote: »

...... the best cattle I ever out wintered was in a forest I owned, it was super, they was a great thrive in them all winter and the going through the trees kept them as warm as a lagging jacket. But department don't think that you should mix cattle and trees...is it not the most natural place for them

Often wondered about that. If nature had it's way, you'd think when the weather turns really bad, that's where they'd head.....to the cover of the trees.

djmc

I once offered to help feed an old mans cattle during a bad winter while he was in hospital he looked at me and said
Ara there fine out boy can't they be noseing the snow.
They same man never lost an animal to hunger and l never saw a thin beast on his farm

https://www.google.ie/search?q=highland+cattle&rlz=1Y3KTZR_enIE561IE561&prmd=ivmn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwitzLPsps3JAhXGfw8KHeJoAgoQ_AUIBygB#imgrc=qEumDLJ8b2XSXM%3A

Limestone Cowboy

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Often wondered about that. If nature had it's way, you'd think when the weather turns really bad, that's where they'd head.....to the cover of the trees.

This is where I found them Sunday!