Irish Government violating the human rights of women

If a referendum is made but people vote against it, is there another way of bringing it in?

Unfortunately Ireland is far too much of an immature country to tackle the abortion issue. Spineless politicians will continue to kick the can down the road, with support from the general apathy towards the issue from the Irish public. Meanwhile women carrying fetus's with no chance of surviving outside the womb will continue to be forced to carry to full term or travel to England to have a termination. It's a national shame, especially as the government continue to promote Ireland as a forward thinking, modern country.

questionmark? wrote: »

See right there you have one of the biggest issues of the debate. Abortion for all or abortion in certain cases such as what you outlined.

I agree it's a decisive issue, however I think that most people must agree that abortion in cases of rape, incest or in cases where the foetus cannot survive outside the womb is a necessity. Our draconian laws need to be updated in this regard at least. We can't call ourselves a modern European nation otherwise.

c_man wrote: »

If we start bombing third world countries, flooding same with home-made weapons and provide banking facilities to the warlords we're flogging them to can we then join the mystical ranks of 'modern' European countries? Or is just abortion that defines it?


I realise it's a complex issue, and it's certainly more complex than "keeping up with the Joneses". Certain people in this country have a weird impression of our European neighbours. Yeah we're sound with them and all that, but let's not kid ourselves over their "modern" values, and the difference between what they do and they preach. Whatever happens, lets define and shape it in our own image and not in some post-colonial, doffing the cap to our superiors in Brussels stereotype.

It was simply a turn of phrase. This is why I usually don't discuss abortion on forums, people will drag any other issue they can think of into it to avoid discussing the issue at hand. I was pointing out that we are one of the few first world countries with such draconian abortion laws. Nothing more, nothing less.

ThinkProgress wrote: »

More power than whom?

Your vote will likely carry the same weight as everyone else. Regardless of which way you vote.

I was saying the female vote (irrespective of Y/N) is slightly more important than my vote as a male. Because I can never be forced to carry and birth a baby against my wishes...

We also shouldn't forget trans men in this debate. They too have wombs and could become pregnant.

The pro lifers will want this buried fairly quickly.

It's impossible to have any sort of debate when they can hire medical professionals as their spokespersons, who will back up vague medical references with "baby killer" religious mumbo jumbo.

While I would hate to see abortion become a method of birth control. I fully accept it is not a black and white issue. There are times when women need it for various reasons.

The 3 doctor panel of "experts" to decide on a woman's right to abortion was alway a ridiculous notion. One doctor acting ethically should be able to decide on the necessity.

Men are certainly heavily involved in the issue as ultimately it is also their constitution and possibly their child's life.

FortySeven wrote: »

Rubbish, this happens all the time!

Do you have photos?

pconn062 wrote: »

Unfortunately Ireland is far too much of an immature country to tackle the abortion issue. Spineless politicians will continue to kick the can down the road, with support from the general apathy towards the issue from the Irish public. Meanwhile women carrying fetus's with no chance of surviving outside the womb will continue to be forced to carry to full term or travel to England to have a termination. It's a national shame, especially as the government continue to promote Ireland as a forward thinking, modern country.

Hold on, we have gay marriage, we so to are mature.

josephryan1989 wrote: »

The majority will be influenced by what they consider is the best argument.

I wish that were true, but alas whenever this topic comes up the anti abortion side do not present that many arguments. We just get the kind of rhetoric like this user who throw emotive words like "murder" around in the hope the words will serve in place of any actual discourse on the matter.

I often tell of the time I went up to the anti abortion booths in Dublin City. You know the ones covered in pictures of fetuses and the like? And I asked them genuinely what their arguments were. I went up prepared to listen and not debate or answer back. I genuinely just wanted to know what the anti abortion arguments were.

All I got was "Dude, look at the pictures" and I said that yes, they were indeed unpleasant to look at.... but could they please tell me what the arguments were. After a pause and a look of confusion his mouth fell open and out fell "Mannn just look at the pictures mannnnnn".

So I am afraid my confidence that the issue will be decided by people hearing, and subscribing to, the "best argument" was somewhat crushed that day. As with the Homosexuality Marriage referendum it is likely to be actual arguments from one side.... put up against fallacious appeals to emotion on the other. And I can only hope that, like that referendum, the latter loses again.