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Irish Government violating the human rights of women

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Comments

  • #62
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    If people thought the debate surrounding the marriage equality referendum was nasty at times, wait until they see an abortion referendum.

    They won't though, because Enda Kenny is a spineless git. FG are happy enough to take the plaudits for a largely pointless (I don't agree that a constitutional amendment was required) and populist marriage ref.

    As for the "Citizens' Convention", didn't they also decide that the Presidential age was something worth wasting 5 seconds of our time to vote against.


  • #63
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It has been found that over in England that gender based abortions are happening among certain communities.

    One can't try and ignore what they don't like.

    It happens but it's a small number of overall abortions. Most abortions happen in the first trimester at a stage where the gender wouldn't be known.


  • #64
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It has been found that over in England that gender based abortions are happening among certain communities.

    One can't try and ignore what they don't like.

    Any citation for that? (Other that The Irish Catholic or some other Kristian mouthpiece)


  • #65
    Wompa1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,281 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    super_furry wrote: »
    Abortion isn't a man's issue and you can't make it one. No man will ever be forced to have a baby against their will.

    Raising and support a child is. I'm not talking about granting men the ability to force a woman to have an abortion. It would still be her choice what she does but it would also give the man a choice on whether to not he wants to be a father.


  • #66
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    eviltwin wrote: »
    It happens but it's a small number of overall abortions. Most abortions happen in the first trimester at a stage where the gender wouldn't be known.

    The independent in the UK went and looked at birth statistics, normally it is around 50/50 for female/male babies.
    They saw discrepancies in immigrant communities for 2011 which was the year they went into detail stats to see what was happening, figures suggested up to 4,700 unborn females were aborted in England in 2011 for being female and not male, even though the practice is illegal.


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  • #67
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    RobertKK wrote: »
    The independent in the UK went and looked at birth statistics, normally it is around 50/50 for female/male babies.
    They saw discrepancies in immigrant communities for 2011 which was the year they went into detail stats to see what was happening, figures suggested up to 4,700 unborn females were aborted in England in 2011 for being female and not male, even though the practice is illegal.

    So if it's illegal, who will legalising abortions for FFA ,incest and rape change it???


  • #68
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    Wompa1 wrote: »
    Raising and support a child is. I'm not talking about granting men the ability to force a woman to have an abortion. It would still be her choice what she does but it would also give the man a choice on whether to not he wants to be a father.

    Wear a condom?


  • #69
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    Any citation for that? (Other that The Irish Catholic or some other Kristian mouthpiece)


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-lost-girls-illegal-abortion-widely-used-by-some-uk-ethnic-groups-to-avoid-daughters-has-reduced-9059790.html


  • #70
    bennyl10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    Wear a condom?

    Sure she can take the pill? Not like a condom will ever fail.. "didn't wear a condom, it broke? Ah well sure that's God's will and what not, baby for you!".. an abortion should never be used as a form of contraception and no-one would advocate that anywhere.. but to say tough luck now, you deal with it, is just a silly argument!

    Christ alive have we seriously fallen to a point where "wear a condom" is an actual argument?..


  • #71
    Baggy Trousers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,816 ✭✭✭Baggy Trousers


    tobsey wrote: »
    I'd say all the parties will commit to a referendum in their manifesto but we'll see.

    Don't underestimate how cowardly our TDs are...


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  • #72
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Baggy Trousers wrote: »
    Don't underestimate how cowardly our TDs are...

    FG struggled to get the party to unite under the last abortion amendment they bought in and the brave people went with their conviction and left FG, including a junior minister.

    Enda knows he has to allow a free vote after that as he will lose most of the party if abortion is brought into a vote and he says they all have to vote for it.
    It is what other democracies do.

    One would expect centre right parties to be against abortion on demand.


  • #73
    masti123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 661 ✭✭✭masti123


    Orangebrigade wrote: »
    The babies who are murdered in the thousands seem to have no human rights. The disgrace of our time.

    Abortion has been going on long before our time.


  • #74
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    RobertKK wrote: »
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-lost-girls-illegal-abortion-widely-used-by-some-uk-ethnic-groups-to-avoid-daughters-has-reduced-9059790.html

    that refers to illegal abortions.


  • #75
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    that refers to illegal abortions.

    Gender based abortions are illegal, but there is nothing to prove they were based on that, so what is illegal can be made legal...they have a 'choice' of excuses for abortion.


  • #76
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    bennyl10 wrote: »
    Sure she can take the pill? Not like a condom will ever fail.. "didn't wear a condom, it broke? Ah well sure that's God's will and what not, baby for you!".. an abortion should never be used as a form of contraception and no-one would advocate that anywhere.. but to say tough luck now, you deal with it, is just a silly argument!

    Christ alive have we seriously fallen to a point where "wear a condom" is an actual argument?..

    Women can't always be on the pill. Condoms are safer and more effective birth control. Condoms help prevent unwanted outcomes. If they agree they can have an abortion, but a man should not impose his will on the body of a women, so he has the choices available to him. Snip or condom.


  • #77
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Gender based abortions are illegal, but there is nothing to prove they were based on that, so what is illegal can be made legal...they have a 'choice' of excuses for abortion.

    The article cited illegal abortions, not legal ones.


  • #78
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    Women can't always be on the pill.

    Agreed. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should get her tubes tied.



    Jesus Christ.


  • #79
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    c_man wrote: »
    Agreed. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should get her tubes tied.



    Jesus Christ.

    Yes but you were saying if a man doesn't want a baby. Women have many options.


  • #80
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Psychologically it's easier for a man to walk away from a crisis pregnancy than it is for a woman. Sure a woman can have an abortion but she may not want to. Sure she can then place it for adoption but that's a huge emotional burden to bear after carrying a child for nine months. If she goes it alone why should she be forced to rely on taxpayers. As a taxpayer who can't afford another child I already resent paying for irresponsible people without paying for more. To be honest even if men could remove themselves from the responsibility I hope most wouldn't.

    A lot do. Then also, a lot of women deny fathers right to their kids, its a dreadful situation.

    The option of early abortions helps.


  • #81
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    c_man wrote: »
    Agreed. If a woman doesn't want to get pregnant, she should get her tubes tied.



    Jesus Christ.

    in your example the woman did want the baby.


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  • #82
    RobertKK
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,775 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    Yes but you were saying if a man doesn't want a baby. Women have many options.

    So do men.

    Don't have sex.
    Don't have unprotected sex,
    Get a vasectomy.
    the new male pill.


  • #83
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    A lot do. Then also, a lot of women deny fathers right to their kids, its a dreadful situation.

    The option of early abortions helps.

    An early abortion is great only if you want an abortion. It's hard enough having an abortion you know is the right choice, how much damage could it do to feel pressured into aborting a baby you actually want.


  • #84
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    RobertKK wrote: »
    So do men.

    Don't have sex.
    Don't have unprotected sex,
    Get a vasectomy.
    the new male pill.

    wear a condom.


  • #85
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    eviltwin wrote: »
    An early abortion is great only if you want an abortion. It's hard enough having an abortion you know is the right choice, how much damage could it do to feel pressured into aborting a baby you actually want.

    If they want it you shouldn't be forced the abort it, likewise if you don't, you should also have that choice.


  • #86
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    If they want it you shouldn't be forced the abort it, likewise if you don't, you should also have that choice.

    What, the choice to force you to have the baby?


  • #87
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What, the choice to force you to have the baby?

    sorry, what?

    the choice to terminate or keep.


  • #88
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    Women can't always be on the pill. Condoms are safer and more effective birth control. Condoms help prevent unwanted outcomes. If they agree they can have an abortion, but a man should not impose his will on the body of a women, so he has the choices available to him. Snip or condom.

    Ah right that's sorted so. A man should not force a woman to have a child but it's ok to force a child on a man. Ya know it takes two to tango! Abortion isn't as straight forward as your post suggests.


  • #89
    Gaygooner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Gaygooner


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Ah right that's sorted so. A man should not force a woman to have a child but it's ok to force a child on a man. Ya know it takes two to tango! Abortion isn't as straight forward as your post suggests.

    a man shouldn't force a woman through pregnany is my point.


  • #90
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    If people thought the debate surrounding the marriage equality referendum was nasty at times, wait until they see an abortion referendum.

    Actually yeah, good point. I hope I'm not in the country when it's on! (I'd put a hazy bet on early 2017).


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  • #91
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,084 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Gaygooner wrote: »
    a man shouldn't force a woman through pregnany is my point.

    No. It should be a joint decision between two adults where possible.


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