Restaurants to charge a euro for tap water

PolaroidPizza · 30-11-2015 09:25PM

Janiyah Scrawny Magnate wrote: »

Charging for water caused the economic crisis, did it? :rolleyes: Come off it.

I didn't actually state that, if you had bothered to read the post.
over-charging during the boom times in our tourism industry did a lot to damage our reputation abroad. it was reported in numerous polls and surveys during the boom times that value for money in Ireland was a reason for tourists not to come back or recommend the country as a place to visit.
this unwarranted practise is an indicator that the milking of tourists is starting again.

darkpagandeath · 30-11-2015 09:25PM

Janiyah Scrawny Magnate wrote: »

Charging for water caused the economic crisis, did it? :rolleyes: Come off it.

What's that got to do with Ripping off people ? Price of Drink and cigarettes here is insane. If the price of drink effected consumption we would be the lowest consumer of alcohol in the EZ/EU. Even though we don't have a problem here being in the middle for consumption. Price is to prop up pubs 18th century business model.

Electric Sheep · 30-11-2015 09:35PM

In the US, the first thing that happens when you sit down in a restaurant is that the water glasses are filled. Free of charge and refilled as often as needed. They still seem to make a profit.

darkpagandeath · 30-11-2015 09:42PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

In the US, the first thing that happens when you sit down in a restaurant is that the water glasses are filled. Free of charge and refilled as often as needed. They still seem to make a profit.

Don't they also do bottomless coffee and soda and alike ?

Electric Sheep · 30-11-2015 09:47PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Don't they also do bottomless coffee and soda and alike ?

Yes, they do, in family style restaurants, less so in higher end places. If you are used to it, it can come as a shock in Europe when they don't do that. My friend found Italy quite expensive from the price of the very small glass of soda for his kid, that he had to pay for the refill, and no water offered at all.

ETA: Though I am not so sure that bottomless soda is necessarily a good thing for kids ;-)

darkpagandeath · 30-11-2015 09:50PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

Yes, they do, in family style restaurants, less so in higher end places. If you are used to it, it can come as a shock in Europe when they don't do that. My friend found Italy quite expensive from the price of the very small glass of soda for his kid, that he had to pay for the refill, and no water offered at all.

ETA: Though I am not so sure that bottomless soda is necessarily a good thing for kids ;-)

Oh I agree, Was adding to the point one made in relation to profit.

Superhorse · 30-11-2015 10:25PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

In the US, the first thing that happens when you sit down in a restaurant is that the water glasses are filled. Free of charge and refilled as often as needed. They still seem to make a profit.

Worked in a bar in New York for 5 years in the 90's. If you ordered a beer, wine etc.. and you had a friend with you who wanted a soda (coke, 7-up) or a water they got it on the house. The premise was the person would leave a tip for the coke or water or would eventually just order a beer. Anything to keep the other person/persons drinking in the bar in all honesty. Soda from tap is cheap as chips over there don't understand why it's so expensive here? Every 5th beer was free (a buy back) also.

I guess it's different way of life in America tbh, they don't want to gouge you as soon as you walk through the door and repeat business is very important unlike here where it seems to be just get every last cent you can from the customer.

Farcical stuff really looking for payment for tap water and i'll be asking when booking over the phone or when I sit down at the table if they do and if so i'll take my hard earned for the food somewhere else.

blackcard · 30-11-2015 10:40PM

JJJJNR wrote: »

Sure just knock by a farm on the way, they get 220,000 litres per year for free.

This is incorrect. If there is a house on a farm, they get an allowance on their non-domestic bill, the quantity depends on the local authority charges. They have to pay a second 'domestic bill' for the quantity of water that they got an allowance for on their non domestic bill. The same applies to a bed and breakfast or any other business which has a house attached to it

Herb Powell · 30-11-2015 11:30PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GceNsojnMf0

LordSutch · 30-11-2015 11:43PM

Qualitymark wrote: »

Any restaurant that charges me €1 for a drink of water will get my €1, once - and my custom never again.

This is an utterly greedy and disgusting scam.

Reminds me of when some filling stations in the UK tried to charge for putting air in your car tyres back in the 90s ... but people revolted, (me included) and after a few months, low and behold Air was free again to put in your car/bike tyres!

I would love it if the Irish people fought against this restaurant/tap water issue here, but alas I suspect that most Irish people will just pay for their water, as they do for their air (in car tyres)

Arbiter of Good Taste · 30-11-2015 11:52PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

In the US, the first thing that happens when you sit down in a restaurant is that the water glasses are filled. Free of charge and refilled as often as needed. They still seem to make a profit.

Maybe because they barely pay the waiting staff....

Tarzana2 · 30-11-2015 11:52PM

ShooterSF wrote: »

I've worked in the industry for over a decade with managers ranging from genius to did you get this job in a lucky bag? And none of them would be crazy enough to charge for tap water, not even in-house filtered and bottled water. It would just be so stupid when you can adjust the price of meals to accommodate increases in water rates.

A restaurant I go to from time to time in Dublin charges I think €1 each for unlimited, filtered water. It's always wedged every time I go there. The food is great so people don't care.

blackcard · 30-11-2015 11:58PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Reminds me of when some filling stations in the UK tried to charge for putting air in your car tyres back in the 90s ... but people revolted, (me included) and after a few months, low and behold Air was free again to put in your car/bike tyres!

I would love it if the Irish people fought against this restaurant/tap water issue here, but alas I suspect that most Irish people will just pay for their water, as they do for their air (in car tyres)

I really doubt if restaurants are going to charge for water, the actual cost to them for a glass of water is a fraction of 1 cent and restaurants have paid water charges for years. It would make more sense for them to add one cent to the cost of the meal

rubadub · 30-11-2015 11:58PM

Electric Sheep wrote: »

In the US, the first thing that happens when you sit down in a restaurant is that the water glasses are filled. Free of charge and refilled as often as needed. They still seem to make a profit.

Yeah, I found it very similar to what I find in restaurants here...

But I did read about people filtering NY tap water and reselling it.

http://www.tapdny.com/

I think coca cola may have done similar here, but not as blatantly open about it.

Someone has to pay for the overheads involved with people who drink "free" tap water, this is no doubt why other drinks cost so much, to make up for the shortfall. I prefer to pay my own way so have no real problem with places charging for water, it might take getting used to as I got it free for so long, I do not like what is in effect subsidising others. I know there is no such thing as a free lunch or drink, and no volunteer postmen (i.e. no "free" postage). Some people are ignorant, and are willing to leave their head firmly stuck in the sand about it, refusing point blank to exercise their tiny set in stone minds.

hatrickpatrick · 01-12-2015 12:08AM

Everyone saying "it's only a euro" is missing the point. Food and drink is already overpriced in Ireland, and in Dublin in particular. This isn't about the isolated pint of water, this is about the overall rise in the cost of living and the cost of a night out, tourism wise. We were already too expensive before they discussed bringing this in, which is why it's a problem. the only way the cost of going out in Ireland should be going is down, it's already exorbitant compared to other European countries.

For instance, to anyone who says you'll pay for water in Berlin, you'll also get a pint of beer for €3 in an ordinary pub. In Ireland that's at least €4.50, in Dublin it can go as high as €6. That's the issue. This new price comes within the context of an already overpriced hospitality sector and the government can take a large share of the blame for that. We have the highest excise duty in the EU as far as I know. We increased VAT during the recession. We're increasing water rates. Nothing is being done about spiralling rents.

And yet, when it comes to individual human beings, the government go on about Ireland needing to be "competitive" as they slash people's wages and raise personal taxes. Result? Less disposable income, higher cost of living = lower quality of life.

That's the point here. Any increase in the price of anything in the hospitality sector in Ireland is bad news, because the sector is already overpriced to f*ck.

osarusan · 01-12-2015 12:24AM

Blut2 wrote: »

I was under the impression that anywhere serving alcohol was obligated to give out free pints of water under the terms of their license.

This would be pretty significant if true.

Can anybody confirm?

Yakkyda · 01-12-2015 03:46AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Everyone saying "it's only a euro" is missing the point. Food and drink is already overpriced in Ireland, and in Dublin in particular. This isn't about the isolated pint of water, this is about the overall rise in the cost of living and the cost of a night out, tourism wise. We were already too expensive before they discussed bringing this in, which is why it's a problem. the only way the cost of going out in Ireland should be going is down, it's already exorbitant compared to other European countries.

For instance, to anyone who says you'll pay for water in Berlin, you'll also get a pint of beer for €3 in an ordinary pub. In Ireland that's at least €4.50, in Dublin it can go as high as €6. That's the issue. This new price comes within the context of an already overpriced hospitality sector and the government can take a large share of the blame for that. We have the highest excise duty in the EU as far as I know. We increased VAT during the recession. We're increasing water rates. Nothing is being done about spiralling rents.

And yet, when it comes to individual human beings, the government go on about Ireland needing to be "competitive" as they slash people's wages and raise personal taxes. Result? Less disposable income, higher cost of living = lower quality of life.

That's the point here. Any increase in the price of anything in the hospitality sector in Ireland is bad news, because the sector is already overpriced to f*ck.

More
If your paying much more than 4.50 for a pint normally, yer getting ripped off. And yes, it gets ridiculous, The temple bar?!? Once was stupid enough to pay more than €6.00 late one night for a ****ing Guinness.... Fooled once.

Yes, restaurants in the city centre(dublin) are indeed expensive(there is plenty of places that are reasonably priced, in the heart of it though ) . I doubt anyone here is attempting to say there is not.

Upward only rent reviews play a huge part in this. It will never come to people paying €1 per glass of water. It won't happen.

Also, the lower rate of vat still applies for restaurants and the like for the foreseeable future does is not?

Also is there a shortage of qualified chefs(and will be for the next while) due to not pushing it as a career path.

I see it happening already (my brother is a chef, 18 years now) his "crew" now has been replaced, in its entirety twice in 6 months, he hasn't worked with a bona fide qualified chef(besides the head) in 2 years. It's guys that have worked themselves up from kitchen porter to a "line" chef.(and they are not paid near what they should be.) He has had to fight, threatening to walk on numerous occasions just to secure the wage he is on (roughly 650\700 weekly[not officially] take home, and a good chunk of that comes as cash in an envelope at the end of the month) 5 day week, 9/10 am-11/12 pm, no breaks, bar a quick bite and th of smoke, it's a brutal job. It's also for a very, very well known "celebrity chef". Don't ask, as it's boards, I can't tell. And won't either way. They can pick and choose and abuse their staff these days. It's ruining the trade(it's very rewarding, but, now? If you witnessed it, ye'd run a mile.)

He's leaving for new York in January, he'll get double the money, for 75% of the hours(granted, it's an expensive city to live in, but he'll be in the same position, whilst furthering his career)

suicide_circus · 01-12-2015 09:31AM

^^^^^ +1 hospitality sector here is brutal

Waiter staff, KPs and chefs regularly pulling 10-12 hour shifts on their feet and the only way to swing a break is if you smoke, appaling pay for the most part, if you complain you're out the door, no unions, foreign workers being extensively taken advantage of, owners taking share in tips etc.

ScumLord · 01-12-2015 01:59PM

PolaroidPizza wrote: »

it was reported in numerous polls and surveys during the boom times that value for money in Ireland was a reason for tourists not to come back or recommend the country as a place to visit.

I'd take anything reported by the tourism trade with a pinch of salt. Tourist don't come to Ireland because it's cheap. They come to Ireland because it's Ireland, just the same as they go to Rome because it's Rome. Even with the knowledge Irelands an expensive place to visit there are still people who will take the hit just to visit Ireland.

Superhorse wrote: »

Soda from tap is cheap as chips over there don't understand why it's so expensive here?

It's expensive here because they use them tiny glass bottles where the bottle is probably, more expensive than the contents, heavier than the contents and takes up much more room than it needs to. Overall though it seems Irish publicans have a real aversion to selling anything other than alcohol.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Everyone saying "it's only a euro" is missing the point. Food and drink is already overpriced in Ireland, and in Dublin in particular. This isn't about the isolated pint of water, this is about the overall rise in the cost of living and the cost of a night out, tourism wise. We were already too expensive before they discussed bringing this in, which is why it's a problem. the only way the cost of going out in Ireland should be going is down, it's already exorbitant compared to other European countries.

For instance, to anyone who says you'll pay for water in Berlin, you'll also get a pint of beer for €3 in an ordinary pub. In Ireland that's at least €4.50, in Dublin it can go as high as €6. That's the issue. This new price comes within the context of an already overpriced hospitality sector and the government can take a large share of the blame for that. We have the highest excise duty in the EU as far as I know. We increased VAT during the recession. We're increasing water rates. Nothing is being done about spiralling rents.

And yet, when it comes to individual human beings, the government go on about Ireland needing to be "competitive" as they slash people's wages and raise personal taxes. Result? Less disposable income, higher cost of living = lower quality of life.

That's the point here. Any increase in the price of anything in the hospitality sector in Ireland is bad news, because the sector is already overpriced to f*ck.

Is it really that much more expensive in Ireland? The fact is we're a small island with a population of 4.5 million. We don't have great buying power. While other countries tend to have a range of cheap to quality, I don't think we have that range in Ireland because none of us want crap, I think the bottom rung of the ladder is much higher in Ireland when it comes to quality.

The bottom line is it costs what it costs. Restaurants don't pick their prices out of thin air, it's supposed to be one of the most difficult business to keep going because overheads are low and the cost of supplies can vary.

The general public don't seem to have any appreciation for how difficult it is to run a business, they think they can watch a reality TV show and that puts them on a par with the person running the business day to day. Watching an episode of "how it's made" makes them an engineer.

MilesMorales1 · 01-12-2015 02:03PM

I'm sure pubs in the UK have been charging 50p for tap water in the UK for years now?

But yes this really isn't a thing that should exist. It might just be a euro, but its the principle of the thing.

max life · 01-12-2015 02:03PM

Restaurants should charge for tap water. They pay water rates aswell so I really cant understand why people are so against paying for it. People just being stingy i reckon:mad:

Qualitymark · 01-12-2015 02:12PM

max life wrote: »

Restaurants should charge for tap water. They pay water rates aswell so I really cant understand why people are so against paying for it. People just being stingy i reckon:mad:

They pay rates for all the water they use - for cleaning, dishwashing, etc; this is true. But charging a euro for a drink of clear cold water - which has always been free and regarded as the basis of all hospitality in Ireland - will lose them customers, because it goes against the grain. It suggests that they are inhospitable, and so untrustworthy.

Also, anyone who's paid €1 for a glass of water (or €10 for 10 glasses of water for the five people at the table) will undoubtedly take it off the 'service charge', and then their staff will be rearing up on them.

01-12-2015 02:45PM

max life wrote: »

Restaurants should charge for tap water. They pay water rates aswell so I really cant understand why people are so against paying for it. People just being stingy i reckon:mad:

Sure why not charge a euro for people not to have to sit in the dark while they eat too

01-12-2015 03:18PM

MilesMorales1 wrote: »

I'm sure pubs in the UK have been charging 50p for tap water in the UK for years now?

But yes this really isn't a thing that should exist. It might just be a euro, but its the principle of the thing.

I can understand pubs charging a very small amount for water alright, as if it's busy you are taking the place of someone who would actually be spending money there, not like in a restaurant

Muahahaha · 01-12-2015 04:50PM

Its a load of cock this idea. I can guess why they want to do it- its because as alcohol in restaurants has gotten more and more expensive more people than ever opt to just drink water with their meal. People are tired of paying €25-30 for a bottle of wine when they know the same thing can be had in the supermarket for €10. Then theres the lack of pints in most restaurants, despite them knowing that a majority of men at least want to be able to buy a pint. But instead they sell 330ml bottles for €5-6 a pop making a pint of beer around €10-12. As a result people just ask for water. So now they're trying to tax that. Maybe if they looked at their extortionate drink prices first I'd have some sympathy but they've already been given a favourable VAT rate of 9% and it seems to have made no difference at all to consumers, with the business pocketing the tax savings instead of being passed on.

So no sympathy at all with them.

ScumLord · 01-12-2015 05:04PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its a load of cock this idea. I can guess why they want to do it- its because as alcohol in restaurants has gotten more and more expensive more people than ever opt to just drink water with their meal. People are tired of paying €25-30 for a bottle of wine when they know the same thing can be had in the supermarket for €10.

Well then they don't really get the point of restaurants. It's true, you can sit at home and drink wine for half the price. But if you want to sit in a nice restaurant and be waited on, and then cooked for by a good chef, you're going to pay extra. It's not like going to your friends house with a bottle of wine. I have no problem with them charging extra. It's a night out.

Then theres the lack of pints in most restaurants, despite them knowing that a majority of men at least want to be able to buy a pint. But instead they sell 330ml bottles for €5-6 a pop making a pint of beer around €10-12. As a result people just ask for water.

I can fully understand why they don't serve pints in a lot of restaurants. It's not just about the cost of all the equipment, but have you ever seen the amount of space all that equipment takes up? Most pubs have a room set aside for all the stuff you need. Bottles give a consistent beverage, there's no maintenance and it's easier to store. We've already established you won't pay for a glass of water but now you want to add the cost of a full bar to your meal?

I've gone into restaurants during the week where you see maybe 6 other people in the place. There's no way they're even breaking even on those days when feck all people come in. A restaurant must be very difficult to run. Especially these days as everyone expects to be treated as royalty, and act like royalty that have no respect for the trials and tribulations of the plebs that serve them.

mynameis905 · 01-12-2015 05:14PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Its a load of cock this idea. I can guess why they want to do it- its because as alcohol in restaurants has gotten more and more expensive more people than ever opt to just drink water with their meal. People are tired of paying €25-30 for a bottle of wine when they know the same thing can be had in the supermarket for €10. Then theres the lack of pints in most restaurants, despite them knowing that a majority of men at least want to be able to buy a pint. But instead they sell 330ml bottles for €5-6 a pop making a pint of beer around €10-12. As a result people just ask for water. So now they're trying to tax that. Maybe if they looked at their extortionate drink prices first I'd have some sympathy but they've already been given a favourable VAT rate of 9% and it seems to have made no difference at all to consumers, with the business pocketing the tax savings instead of being passed on.

So no sympathy at all with them.

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I would run a mile from any restaurant that served pints with their food. I might make an exception for something at the very casual carvery level, but certainly not in a good restaurant.

Muahahaha · 01-12-2015 05:17PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Well then they don't really get the point of restaurants. It's true, you can sit at home and drink wine for half the price. But if you want to sit in a nice restaurant and be waited on, and then cooked for by a good chef, you're going to pay extra. It's not like going to your friends house with a bottle of wine. I have no problem with them charging extra. It's a night out.

Nor do I but its the 300% mark ups on wine that I'd have a problem with. A night out is one thing but people still expect to get value for money. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks wine lists in Irish restaurants are value for money

I can fully understand why they don't serve pints in a lot of restaurants. It's not just about the cost of all the equipment, but have you ever seen the amount of space all that equipment takes up? Most pubs have a room set aside for all the stuff you need. Bottles give a consistent beverage, there's no maintenance and it's easier to store. We've already established you won't pay for a glass of water but now you want to add the cost of a full bar to your meal?

Not at all- you can buy units such as this. Years back I worked in a lot of restaurants in Australia and many had similar systems where they could store 2 kegs beneath the counter and then the unit on top to cool and dispense the beer. There's no need for a coldroom at all and in fact the less distance the beer travels from keg to tap the better the beer tastes.

And again, just like the wine, most people wouldn't have a problem drinking bottles all night if they felt they were getting value for money. Selling bottles at €5-6 means a pint costs approx €10 in a restaurant. Again there is no value for money so people like myself might have one bottle when ordering/waiting for the meal and then have a glass of water with the meal. I'd love to have 3 or 4 or even 5 bottles of beer with my meal but at €5-6 a pop I'll instead stick to the tapwater and save my drinking for elsewhere.

Skatedude · 01-12-2015 05:17PM

Family business used to be a pub and our water charges were a minimum of 10000 a year, and that was before metering so probably more expensive now.

hatrickpatrick · 01-12-2015 05:18PM

ScumLord wrote: »

Is it really that much more expensive in Ireland?

Indeed.
http://www.joe.ie/news/a-round-of-drinks-in-dublin-compared-to-other-european-cities-makes-for-brutal-reading/497030

The fact is we're a small island with a population of 4.5 million. We don't have great buying power. While other countries tend to have a range of cheap to quality, I don't think we have that range in Ireland because none of us want crap, I think the bottom rung of the ladder is much higher in Ireland when it comes to quality.

The bottom line is it costs what it costs. Restaurants don't pick their prices out of thin air, it's supposed to be one of the most difficult business to keep going because overheads are low and the cost of supplies can vary.

The general public don't seem to have any appreciation for how difficult it is to run a business, they think they can watch a reality TV show and that puts them on a par with the person running the business day to day. Watching an episode of "how it's made" makes them an engineer.

I'm not blaming the businesses here, I'm blaming the government and the various state agencies, IW included, which should be massively discounting the hospitality and entertainment sectors instead of making it harder for them to do business. IW should not be increasing water charges for this sector. The government should be tackling the rents and council rates paid by this sector. VAT and excise should be being looked at. The ridiculous cost of parking in most parts of Dublin needs to be dealt with. The fact that clubs have to pay a ridiculous fee for each individual night that they want to open late needs to be scrapped.

None of these are the fault of the businesses involved, they're the fault of mind bogglingly idiotic government policies which are essentially designed to raise short term cash at the expense of long term population, tourism, and established business. Simple as. They're ok with making an extra few euro now on all of these costs to businesses, regardless of whether that decimates the sector and results in reduced trade for years to come.

And I can tell you first hand that this is a massive hidden factor in immigration. People left because there were no jobs. Many of those people are choosing not to come home because they've got a taste of what a civilised cost of living and bang for your buck looks like in other cities and countries, and balk at the idea of coming back to somewhere where everything from a pint of milk in a supermarket to a pint of beer in a pub can cost up to twice as much.

Restaurants to charge a euro for tap water

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