Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

McAlban · 19-08-2015 05:13PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Leap goes to Celbridge, the problem is most of the old stations were moved and paid for by developers so they lie in the middle of nowhere because of how the property market went.

It's been there (Hazelhatch and Celbridge) since 1846. And probably has more to do with the Permanent way alignment than developers

Stephen15 · 19-08-2015 06:00PM

They could always built an underground passage way.

alias no.9 · 19-08-2015 06:11PM

McAlban wrote: »

It's been there (Hazelhatch and Celbridge) since 1846. And probably has more to do with the Permanent way alignment than developers

Cherry Orchard and Park West which was little more than a hole in the ground moved to Park West and Cherry Orchard where it serves a higher density of commuters and population with probable future increase in population. Developers were involved.

Clondalkin moved from a place where it didn't serve very many to Clondalkin and Fonthill a place where it serves even less but at least has a large car park now and potential for large scale development adjacent and changeover to metro west when it's finally built in 2238. No developers involved AFAIK.

Kishogue is a real life ghost station, complete but unopened, funded by developers I believe for notional future development. The Clonburris sp? SDZ extends from Clondalkin and Fonthill to Kishogue.

Adamstown could very tentatively be described to have replaced the long closed and derelict Lucan South and is adjacent to a large and growing population. The developers will have chipped in here too.

Hazelhatch is still in the middle of nowhere with no developer involved but with the sprawling tentacles of Celbridge creeping ever closer.

LXFlyer · 19-08-2015 06:34PM

McAlban wrote: »

Nope. Been on plenty of them in Europe of similar length. Admittedly not in a train station. And they are usually maxed out at about 150-200m But even a Series of 2 or 3 of them is possible and not too expensive. However... I take it you mean the sheer number of rail lines between platform 10 and the end of the nearest platform!!

But it is not "in a train station".

Platform 10 is totally separate from the main Heuston Station and can only be accessed by walking 750m along an open road.

The only realistic option for that platform if it ever comes back into regular use (it was built during the expansion of Heuston from five to eight platforms to ensure that five platforms were constantly in use) is a connecting free bus service.

We are talking one train an hour off-peak and two at peak in either direction. That does not warrant extravagant solutions such as a travelator.

alias no.9 · 19-08-2015 06:41PM

lxflyer wrote: »

But it is not "in a train station".

Platform 10 is totally separate from the main Heuston Station and can only be accessed by walking 750m along an open road.

The only realistic option for that platform if it ever comes back into regular use (it was built during the expansion of Heuston from five to eight platforms to ensure that five platforms were constantly in use) is a connecting free bus service.

We are talking one train an hour off-peak and two at peak in either direction. That does not warrant extravagant solutions such as a travelator.

Moving the 145 terminus adjacent to Platform 10 would go a long way to maintaining the existing connectivity.

LXFlyer · 19-08-2015 06:57PM

alias no.9 wrote: »

Moving the 145 terminus adjacent to Platform 10 would go a long way to maintaining the existing connectivity.

Well if (and it's a big if) that platform did come into regular use, that's what I would suggest happen as well, with free transfers between the station and platform 10.

Banjoxed · 19-08-2015 07:51PM

alias no.9 wrote: »

Outside of about an hour in the morning inbound and about an hour in the evening outbound, these stations have on average one train an hour each direction.

Rather than the train only going to Heuston, it's the lack of frequency that's a killer, the Luas and 145 link Heuston with the CC nicely.

Miss a train, wait an hour, if you split the existing trains between Heuston and Connolly, outbound you miss a train, you wait two hours. If you miss the alternative bus, you're looking at a 15 or 20 minute wait.

Public transport modes are habitual. A couple of 50 minute waits for a train will see you switch to the bus very quickly and permanently. Even if the time on the bus is longer, the door to door time by train is worse most of the day.

When I lived in Celbridge, a few long waits in Lucan and Chapelizod for school traffic put me on the train permanently.

alias no.9 · 19-08-2015 08:41PM

Banjoxed wrote: »

When I lived in Celbridge, a few long waits in Lucan and Chapelizod for school traffic put me on the train permanently.

If every second train in the evening left from Heuston and Connolly, with no extra services, how would that have affected you?

Banjoxed · 20-08-2015 05:34PM

alias no.9 wrote: »

If every second train in the evening left from Heuston and Connolly, with no extra services, how would that have affected you?

I worked in Dublin 1 so not at all.

Lester Freamon · 26-11-2015 01:38PM

Anyone hear of any updates on this? Are we still on track (excuse the pun!) for it to be opened and operational next summer/autumn?

kc56 · 26-11-2015 01:44PM

10m funding has been provided and work has commenced.

Del.Monte · 26-11-2015 02:30PM

What's the stone throwing scene like around the old cement depot at Cabra these days - it used to be nearly as bad as Liffey Junction?

n97 mini · 27-11-2015 12:31AM

Was in the paper today I think that trains bound for Connolly and further afield won't stop at Heuston at all.

27-11-2015 07:16AM

n97 mini wrote: »

Was in the paper today I think that trains bound for Connolly and further afield won't stop at Heuston at all.

Correct, the track layout makes it impossible for a train to stop at Heuston and then continue on to Connolly.

Long Time Lurker · 27-11-2015 08:04AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Correct, the track layout makes it impossible for a train to stop at Heuston and then continue on to Connolly.

Comedy gold.

So if by chance you want to go to Prussia St but you missed the half seven from Sallins to Heuston then you can either wait half an hour for the next train or get the one that's there to Connolly, sail straight past where you want to go and get a Luas back.

Yrp this is the sort of investment this country needs. I think they're spending more doing up the Curragh than they are on this vital piece of transport infrastructure. Joke.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 27-11-2015 08:10AM

Is there an estimated average journey time from the various stops to connelly? Or a proposed timetable or anything?

LXFlyer · 27-11-2015 08:16AM

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

Is there an estimated average journey time from the various stops to connelly? Or a proposed timetable or anything?

Only frequency - one train per hour off-peak, and two trains per hour at peak.

Trains should take about 20 minutes from Islandbridge Junction to Grand Canal Dock (and a little over 10 minutes to get to Connolly).

LXFlyer · 27-11-2015 08:21AM

Long Time Lurker wrote: »

Comedy gold.

So if by chance you want to go to Prussia St but you missed the half seven from Sallins to Heuston then you can either wait half an hour for the next train or get the one that's there to Connolly, sail straight past where you want to go and get a Luas back.

Yrp this is the sort of investment this country needs. I think they're spending more doing up the Curragh than they are on this vital piece of transport infrastructure. Joke.

We are talking about one train per hour off-peak and two per hour at peak.

Provided the existing trains continue to operate and serve Heuston, which is my expectation, I really don't see what the issue is, given that any platforms for these new services would be over 750m away from the main station and would be quite remote.

A bit of perspective is needed here.

People are capable of reading timetables and planning their days accordingly.

savagethegoat · 27-11-2015 10:31AM

isn't there a platform n the tunnel line? Impossible in any case is too big a word....trains can reverse nowadays.

Probably safer to say it is unnecessary to stop at Heuston when the bulk of the passengers are headed for the City centre

LXFlyer · 27-11-2015 10:40AM

savagethegoat wrote: »

isn't there a platform n the tunnel line? Impossible in any case is too big a word....trains can reverse nowadays.

Probably safer to say it is unnecessary to stop at Heuston when the bulk of the passengers are headed for the City centre

There are two markets and both will be catered for by services - there will be trains to both Heuston and to Grand Canal Dock.

People are capable of figuring out when they need to be at the station for their train - they already do it as it is.

Suggesting that trains should reverse is a nonsense - this train has to be competitive from a time perspective. That would take far too long.

I really don't see the issue here, considering the remoteness of platform 10 - it's too inconvenient compared with the main station. You would have to have a special bus to connect to/from it for each train.

savagethegoat · 27-11-2015 11:07AM

lxflyer wrote: »

There are two markets and both will be catered for by services - there will be trains to both Heuston and to Grand Canal Dock.

People are capable of figuring out when they need to be at the station for their train - they already do it as it is.

Suggesting that trains should reverse is a nonsense - this train has to be competitive from a time perspective. That would take far too long.

I really don't see the issue here, considering the remoteness of platform 10 - it's too inconvenient compared with the main station. You would have to have a special bus to connect to/from it for each train.

Thanks for rubbishing my post. If you read it properly you have seen my suggestion that a stop at Heuston is probably not necessary.

ClovenHoof · 30-11-2015 06:34PM

There is work taking place in the tunnel right now.

GM228 · 30-11-2015 06:36PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is work taking place in the tunnel right now.

Has been on-going over the last few weeks I believe.

30-11-2015 07:15PM

GM228 wrote: »

Has been on-going over the last few weeks I believe.

I've seen flashing red lights on the tracks there quite frequently over the past few weeks.

h.gricer · 30-11-2015 11:30PM

ClovenHoof wrote: »

There is work taking place in the tunnel right now.

Indeed and also drilling into the cutting and reinforcing the cutting on both sides from the tunnel to Cabra Road and vegetation clearance, good views of the work can be seen from any of the 3 over bridges (Blackhorse Ave, Old Cabra Road and Cabra Road) for those into vintage vehicles an old vintage military truck is on site taking away the vegetation.
Regards
hg

1huge1 · 30-11-2015 11:35PM

Might be a silly question but what kind of speeds can we expect on this stretch of line? it is straight with no level crossings as far as I can see, or is there usually speed limits imposed in tunnels?

flyingsnail · 01-12-2015 10:12AM

1huge1 wrote: »

Might be a silly question but what kind of speeds can we expect on this stretch of line? it is straight with no level crossings as far as I can see, or is there usually speed limits imposed in tunnels?

As far as I know the current speed limit is 30mph and I cant see there being much (if any) gain on that. The straight section is only about a mile long which doesn't give much room for higher speeds.

cgcsb · 02-12-2015 11:41AM

When the government announced that they're fudging DART underground and letting on that it was ever on the cards to build DARTu without widespread electrification they also said they'd begin work on electrifying the existing lines, fat chance I know.

But anyway in my ignorance I assumed this meant they'd drop the level of the tracks in the Phoenix Park Tunnel to allow DARTs make the Hazelhatch-Grand Canal Dock journey in the future. I passed by this morning and noted no such works have taken place.

Am I to take it that this government announced they'll do the cheaper part of the DART underground works and offer more direct Kildare line-City Centre services then go ahead and carry out works that'll ensure no DART service on the Kildare line for a generation?

Unless they are operating under the mistaken impression that it is acceptable to have one isolated Hazelhatch-Heuston DART line and a separate, parallel, more popular Kildare-Grand Canal Dock Diesel service?

LXFlyer · 02-12-2015 11:49AM

cgcsb wrote: »

When the government announced that they're fudging DART underground and letting on that it was ever on the cards to build DARTu without widespread electrification they also said they'd begin work on electrifying the existing lines, fat chance I know.

But anyway in my ignorance I assumed this meant they'd drop the level of the tracks in the Phoenix Park Tunnel to allow DARTs make the Hazelhatch-Grand Canal Dock journey in the future. I passed by this morning and noted no such works have taken place.

Am I to take it that this government announced they'll do the cheaper part of the DART underground works and offer more direct Kildare line-City Centre services then go ahead and carry out works that'll ensure no DART service on the Kildare line for a generation?

Unless they are operating under the mistaken impression that it is acceptable to have one isolated Hazelhatch-Heuston DART line and a separate, parallel, more popular Kildare-Grand Canal Dock Diesel service?

There never has been any suggestion that DART would operate via the Phoenix Park tunnel, or that the works would facilitate that.

All that's happening is that (as a result of the extra capacity over the loop line bridge arising from the city centre re-signalling project) additional services from the Kildare line will operate to Grand Canal Dock.

Nothing to do with DART Underground.

The project is simply about getting the line between Islandbridge Junction and Glasnevin Junction fit for regular passenger service use.

cgcsb · 02-12-2015 12:06PM

lxflyer wrote: »

There never has been any suggestion that DART would operate via the Phoenix Park tunnel, or that the works would facilitate that.

All that's happening is that (as a result of the extra capacity over the loop line bridge arising from the city centre re-signalling project) additional services from the Kildare line will operate to Grand Canal Dock.

Nothing to do with DART Underground.

The project is simply about getting the line between Islandbridge Junction and Glasnevin Junction fit for regular passenger service use.

I see but one assumes that when the plan is to carry out electrification without DART underground for another election cycle or two, that provision must be made for DARTs through the PPT. Are we to have an isolated DART line out of Heuston? or is it really the case that this covernment has no intention of electrifying any railway?

Phoenix Park tunnel: 4 trains per hour from 2016

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