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Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

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Comments

  • #212
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    JPNelsforearm wrote: »
    But thats the whole point, islamists were flocking to them before they were called ISIS, islamists have flocked to "holy wars" constantly. Pretending that somehow calling ISIS Daesh will stop some lad/chick from joining their crusade is hilarious.

    If only the Byzantine empire had known that calling an invading islamic army a name the allegedly annoys them would have an effect...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Byzantine_wars

    I don't give a toss whether the name Daesh annoys its existing members, or not.

    I very much care whether propagandists get to use the name Islamic State to persuade vulnerable young people that this is what their religion calls them to.
    I may not be able to do anything to stop Daesh - but I'm damned if I'm inadvertently going to do anything that helps them even one tiny bit.
    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Why shouldn't we identify them on religious grounds? They are openly religious? They are establishing a theocracy. Why do we need to remove religion from the equation?

    Apologies. I should have made it clear that I was referring to Daesh using the term Islamic State to persuade young or vulnerable people to identify with them on religious grounds.

    It may not do any good, but it certainly wont do any harm


  • #213
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    An interesting read; http://www.cracked.com/blog/isis-wants-us-to-invade-7-facts-revealed-by-their-magazine/

    The following part is particularly relevent to this thread;
    Members of ISIS use Twitter to recruit soldiers, as well as wives; they target young and vulnerable kids in a similar manner as sexual predators. (Likely because many of them are sexual predators.) ISIS's media team also puts together a series of slick videos all aimed at convincing young people to undertake Hijrah and journey to the Islamic State.


  • #214
    kettlehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    It's not relevant as their local mosque encouraged them to go. They weren't radicalised online. Also, they had left behind a letter to their parents saying: “Don’t look for us. We will serve Allah… and we will die for him”.

    They knew what they were getting into.


  • #215
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    I thought it was funny.
    I just don't get it I guess. :)
    Sleepy wrote: »
    Why is this any more newsworthy than a case of any other IS defector being killed? Oh right, because they're women.
    I dunno. One of them was pregnant, which always, rightly or wrongly, tends to carry an emotional dimension. If there is more coverage of this than of cases of male defectors because these individuals were women, who are the people being more concerned? The latter are not all women.

    I don't feel sorry for them and agree they should have known (but I would also consider it possible for them to have been manipulated to an extent) however I would rather they got out and atoned - did what they could to open would-be eejits' eyes to the truth, provided information to intelligence, rather than be killed. Same if they were guys.


  • #216
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kettlehead wrote: »
    It's not relevant as their local mosque encouraged them to go. They weren't radicalised online. Also, they had left behind a letter to their parents saying: “Don’t look for us. We will serve Allah… and we will die for him”.

    They knew what they were getting into.
    Is there a link for that? The mosque part


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  • #217
    kettlehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Is there a link for that? The mosque part

    Sure.
    The images of two young smiling schoolgirls – Samra Kesinovic, 16, and her friend Sabina Selimovic, 15 – have become symbols of Austria’s concern about young people being radicalised and going to fight in Syria.

    The girls, whose families came to Austria from Bosnia, ran away from their Vienna homes in April to fight in the “holy war”, telling their families in a note: “Don’t look for us. We will serve Allah – and we will die for him.”

    It is thought the girls were radicalised after attending a local mosque run by a radical preacher, Ebu Tejma. Samra’s school confirmed that before her disappearance she had been a vocal advocate of the “holy war”’, writing “I love al-Qaida” around the school.

    Source is The Guardian.


  • #218
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    Teenagers are idiots. If she was involved in planning or helping to kill people my sympathy really ends there. If not and she had to endure the rape and beatings that are common in those marriages before being beaten to death as she tried to escape then yes of course she deserves sympathy.

    Women do get more sympathy than men in these situations because they suffer more.


  • #219
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    ronan45 wrote: »
    in any event , hope she died and prey she suffered:)
    No hoping and praying required obv.
    captbarnacles wrote: »
    Women do get more sympathy than men in these situations because they suffer more.
    I'm not sure that's always the case?


  • #220
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    Azalea wrote: »
    No hoping and praying required obv.

    I'm not sure that's always the case?

    Probably not always.


  • #221
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    ronan45 wrote: »
    in any event , hope she died and prey she suffered:)

    Hoping and praying possibly pregnant teenage girls suffered and died is pretty sick and nearly as bad as the mindset that drives extremists


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  • #222
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,031 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    Was she pregnant?

    EVENFLOW



  • #223
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    The_Kew_Tour wrote: »
    Was she pregnant?

    Said in the link it was presumed she was...will never be known I'd say


  • #224
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Hoping and praying possibly pregnant teenage girls suffered and died is pretty sick and nearly as bad as the mindset that drives extremists

    Pregnant... Teenaged... As horrible as it might sound, that child would have lead a terrible life. It's very sad but it's also very true. The child/embryo/zygot I have sympathy for, the girl I do not. Please remember that she is the same age as a lot of the US Marines that go to battle. She knew what side she was on.


  • #225
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    smash wrote: »
    Pregnant... Teenaged... As horrible as it might sound, that child would have lead a terrible life. It's very sad but it's also very true. The child/embryo/zygot I have sympathy for, the girl I do not. Please remember that she is the same age as a lot of the US Marines that go to battle. She knew what side she was on.


    I never said she wasn't....but to hope and pray anyone died suffering is a disturbed mindset that I personally wouldn't like to be associated with

    What is the difference in hoping for her to suffer dying as for some Isis supporter to hope people Isis kill/burn to death suffer


  • #226
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    I never said she wasn't....but to hope and pray anyone died suffering is a disturbed mindset that I personally wouldn't like to be associated with

    What is the difference in hoping for her to suffer dying as for some Isis supporter to hope people Isis kill/burn to death suffer

    I don't agree with people hoping she suffered. But I also don't agree with people who have sympathy for her.


  • #227
    kettlehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    An interesting interview with the mother of a 20 year old Russian 'poster girl' who left and joined up with ISIS. She even chained her to radiator to try and stop her. I don't know why she didn't report her to the authorities. She seems resigned to the fact that her daughter will be killed and says that she have birth to a 'monster.'
    A mother has told of her despair at watching her daughter turn into an Islamic extremist, saying she even chained her to the radiator in their home to stop her fleeing to join Isis in Syria.

    Shakhla Bochkaryova, 41, from a small town near Surgut in Russia, told The Siberian Times how she had come to accept that she gave birth to a “monster” after her 20-year-old daughter, Fatima Dzhafarova, became radicalised and ran away.

    Independent. co. uk/news/world/europe/isis-teenage-poster-girl-was-chained-to-radiator-by-her-mother-to-stop-her-fleeing-to-syria-a6751746.html


  • #228
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    kettlehead wrote: »
    An interesting interview with the mother of a 20 year old Russian 'poster girl' who left and joined up with ISIS. She even chained her to radiator to try and stop her. I don't know why she didn't report her to the authorities.

    That does seem odd. Perhaps as a Muslim woman in Russia she was afraid of what the authorities might do to her daughter and still clung to the hope that her own intervention might suffice.


  • #229
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    It is sad as many young people are easily manipulated. She obviously realised her mistake too late. The only good that may come from might be it stops even ONE young impressionable boy or girl from making the same mistake.


  • #230
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    kettlehead wrote: »
    An interesting interview with the mother of a 20 year old Russian 'poster girl' who left and joined up with ISIS. She even chained her to radiator to try and stop her. I don't know why she didn't report her to the authorities. She seems resigned to the fact that her daughter will be killed and says that she have birth to a 'monster.'



    Independent. co. uk/news/world/europe/isis-teenage-poster-girl-was-chained-to-radiator-by-her-mother-to-stop-her-fleeing-to-syria-a6751746.html

    That poor mother. It must be horrible to lose a daughter that way.


  • #231
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,380 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    opiniated wrote: »
    That poor mother. It must be horrible to lose a daughter that way.
    chained to a radiator?? poor mother me h0le


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  • #232
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    chained to a radiator?? poor mother me h0le
    I think that any mother who would feel it necessary to chain a daughter to a radiator to stop them doing something dangerous is showing love not cruelty. Different if it was to stop her going out because she was grounded.


  • #233
    kettlehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    That does seem odd. Perhaps as a Muslim woman in Russia she was afraid of what the authorities might do to her daughter and still clung to the hope that her own intervention might suffice.

    Are the Russian authorities that untrustworthy?


  • #234
    opiniated
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭opiniated


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    chained to a radiator?? poor mother me h0le

    Because chaining her to a radiator was worse than allowing her to join ISIS?
    kettlehead wrote: »
    Are the Russian authorities that untrustworthy?

    Who knows? Maybe the mother thought she could make her daughter see sense?


  • #235
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    kettlehead wrote: »
    Are the Russian authorities that untrustworthy?

    As long as you aren't a critic of Putin, member of a disliked minority, gay, in the wrong place at the wrong time or the like, you can trust them entirely.


  • #236
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    kettlehead wrote: »
    Are the Russian authorities that untrustworthy?
    YEP


  • #237
    kettlehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    I think you lot are over exaggerating how bad the Russian police are. They are a lot better than the lads the daughter was currently involved with. If the woman got the authorities involved it is likely that her daughter wouldn't be off in Syria with the head hackers today. She couldn't keep her chained to the radiator forever!


  • #238
    seanaway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 646 ✭✭✭seanaway


    kettlehead wrote: »
    I think you lot are over exaggerating how bad the Russian police are. They are a lot better than the lads the daughter was currently involved with. If the woman got the authorities involved it is likely that her daughter wouldn't be off in Syria with the head hackers today. She couldn't keep her chained to the radiator forever!

    You're rght. She wouldn't be chained to a radiator. She might well have been chained in a Russian prison though. Yes, she would be safe but don't underestimate the reputatin of Russian police. They are corrupt to the bone, inefficient, and don't play nicey nicey.


  • #239
    kettlehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 414 ✭✭kettlehead


    seanaway wrote: »
    You're rght. She wouldn't be chained to a radiator. She might well have been chained in a Russian prison though. Yes, she would be safe but don't underestimate the reputatin of Russian police. They are corrupt to the bone, inefficient, and don't play nicey nicey.

    I don't believe that the Russian police are half as bad as you make out but let's say that they are. The mother could have instead approached her local Imam and community leaders and got them to intervene. Chaining her to a fecking radiator was never going to work as the second she got free she was always going to flee.


  • #240
    The_Kew_Tour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,031 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    kettlehead wrote: »
    Are the Russian authorities that untrustworthy?

    In a simple word Yes.

    EVENFLOW



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  • #241
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    kettlehead wrote: »
    I don't believe that the Russian police are half as bad as you make out but let's say that they are. The mother could have instead approached her local Imam and community leaders and got them to intervene. Chaining her to a fecking radiator was never going to work as the second she got free she was always going to flee.
    And who radicalised the girl? What if the local Imam had been involved?


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