Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

Brown Podzol · 25-11-2015 10:29PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I have a bit of problem lads.
It's a good one to have though.
I gave 12 autumn born heifers born last sept/Oct.
I wasn't going to breed these until May because I don't want any more autumn calvers but need more spring calvers.
But there massive. Easily 350 kgs. One girl not far off 400. And I wouldn't class out herd as big. Av cow 550 kgs.
Secondly I've no where to put my spring born heifers - 25 of them.
Brought them to out farm today thinking there would be loads of room in shed there but it will be way too cramped with 37 heifers in one side so I let them into a paddock for tonight till we think of something.

Any ideas?
We have a big 35ft by 60ft hay shed here but it's full up with straw

Can you wrap some of the straw and store it outside?

Greengrass1 · 25-11-2015 10:32PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Not having a go gg ,but over the last 2/3 years you've outlined how u plan to expand nos ,you've managed to get the stock but u seem goosed for shed/cubicle space ,slurry storage and a parlour .u now seem to be at a stage where u will need them all in the one go and sooner rather than later .dont know your situation re nitrates and how near dero u are but at high stock nos it's just a matter of time before your inspected .bps penalties and co co inspectors sniffing around every year ain't what u want .your young ambitious and have a good handle on your costs don't be afraid of debt and back yourself

Ahhh mj. If you knew you would know we're not afraid of debt here.
Not over stocked yet. WI'll be about 2.4 overall next yr.

Jeez I regret posting up here now.
I'm pushing the boat and no way will stock be sold till I hit what I want to.

Timmaay · 25-11-2015 10:34PM

whelan2 wrote: »

why are there different rules for different counties? Have loads of sheds idle here at the minute that are used for calves etc

Straw bedded housing with storage for the runoff gets me over the line nicely, even if I use them for straw.

frazzledhome · 25-11-2015 10:34PM

whelan2 wrote: »

not being smart but part of expansion plans are housing, bit late being stuck today for housing.

Yes you are being smart. I'd rather have that problem than be the hero with the big shed and nothing only pigeons roosting

mahoney_j · 25-11-2015 10:35PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Ahhh mj. If you knew you would know we're not afraid of debt here.
Not over stocked yet. WI'll be about 2.4 overall next yr.

Jeez I regret posting up here now.
I'm pushing the boat and no way will stock be sold till I hit what I want to.

Don't regret ambition and progress ,how near dero terroritry are ye

Greengrass1 · 25-11-2015 10:35PM

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Can you wrap some of the straw and store it outside?

Looks like an option BP. Will cost 600 bob in plastic.
Will they sweat?
Be a hoor to bed with them then

frazzledhome · 25-11-2015 10:39PM

Will you put straw outside and put cattle in. Straw will be fine and ffs don't post such a question again.

Leaving yourself wide open

Oh by the way sell the winter born heifers

Greengrass1 · 25-11-2015 10:40PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Don't regret ambition and progress ,how near dero terroritry are ye

150 to end of Oct mj. Me near 200 territory next yr I would imagine. Did a derogation this yr just incase

Brown Podzol · 25-11-2015 10:41PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Looks like an option BP. Will cost 600 bob in plastic.
Will they sweat?
Be a hoor to bed with them then

No, I do it every year. Store at side of shed opposite prevailing wind, in a rain shadow stacked standing up and not touching their neighbours on either side. You could also store some in houses you are not using for a while, calving pens or calf houses.

whelan2 · 25-11-2015 10:44PM

frazzledhome wrote: »

Yes you are being smart. I'd rather have that problem than be the hero with the big shed and nothing only pigeons roosting

to find out on the day of housing you havent enough space is not being smart

the_blue_oval · 25-11-2015 10:56PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I have a bit of problem lads.
It's a good one to have though.
I gave 12 autumn born heifers born last sept/Oct.
I wasn't going to breed these until May because I don't want any more autumn calvers but need more spring calvers.
But there massive. Easily 350 kgs. One girl not far off 400. And I wouldn't class out herd as big. Av cow 550 kgs.
Secondly I've no where to put my spring born heifers - 25 of them.
Brought them to out farm today thinking there would be loads of room in shed there but it will be way too cramped with 37 heifers in one side so I let them into a paddock for tonight till we think of something.

Any ideas?
We have a big 35ft by 60ft hay shed here but it's full up with straw

Any one nearby with an empty shed that you could rent from them or do b&b?

caseman · 25-11-2015 11:18PM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Looks like an option BP. Will cost 600 bob in plastic.
Will they sweat?
Be a hoor to bed with them then

Stack them and 100 euro silage cover pulled over them.

frazzledhome · 25-11-2015 11:22PM

whelan2 wrote: »

to find out on the day of housing you havent enough space is not being smart

He looked for advise as opposed to a lecture

Brown Podzol · 25-11-2015 11:45PM

caseman wrote: »

Stack them and 100 euro silage cover pulled over them.

Trouble here is that it will have to be very well secured and every time he takes out a bale he will have to secure it again. Takes a lot of time.

Damo810 · 26-11-2015 12:16AM

Brown Podzol wrote: »

Trouble here is that it will have to be very well secured and every time he takes out a bale he will have to secure it again. Takes a lot of time.

If he doesn't need the whole shed for the heifers he could easily pull out 10 or 20 at a time when theres no rush on. Did it here before, worked well, doing it again this year, left up on a few pallets and plastic over them by the bale pit. Easier and cheaper than wrapping and unwrapping a bale every time he wants one.

keep going · 26-11-2015 12:39AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I have a bit of problem lads.
It's a good one to have though.
I gave 12 autumn born heifers born last sept/Oct.
I wasn't going to breed these until May because I don't want any more autumn calvers but need more spring calvers.
But there massive. Easily 350 kgs. One girl not far off 400. And I wouldn't class out herd as big. Av cow 550 kgs.
Secondly I've no where to put my spring born heifers - 25 of them.
Brought them to out farm today thinking there would be loads of room in shed there but it will be way too cramped with 37 heifers in one side so I let them into a paddock for tonight till we think of something.

Any ideas?
We have a big 35ft by 60ft hay shed here but it's full up with straw

If you are at a relatively low stocking rate could you out winter on a sheltered dry field or I seem to remember theres a good bit of beet around you could you get access to tops or alternatively stubbles.you could also make up a temporary pad with would chips near the yard or dump a couple of loads in the corner of a suitable field for a dry lie.the trick with a lot of these plans is to shorten your winter period as much as possible.dont worry about negative opinions on this, these are all the sort of speed bumps you have to deal with when you ard expanding and paying off debt.also could separate them into a weaker and stronger group and use two different wintering solutions

Milked out · 26-11-2015 01:17AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I have a bit of problem lads.
It's a good one to have though.
I gave 12 autumn born heifers born last sept/Oct.
I wasn't going to breed these until May because I don't want any more autumn calvers but need more spring calvers.
But there massive. Easily 350 kgs. One girl not far off 400. And I wouldn't class out herd as big. Av cow 550 kgs.
Secondly I've no where to put my spring born heifers - 25 of them.
Brought them to out farm today thinking there would be loads of room in shed there but it will be way too cramped with 37 heifers in one side so I let them into a paddock for tonight till we think of something.

Any ideas?
We have a big 35ft by 60ft hay shed here but it's full up with straw

Gg just a thought on the heifers you're planning on rolling to spring ai, would it not be better to serve them for the autumn and leave a few of the cows roll over as they will then be sending milk out the gate faster and the cows you roll over could milk away for the extra month or two. You will still be reducing autumn calving but will have less dry animals and more milk output.
On the housing keep going has given a few options there given you're dry farm and the lads with the straw being wrapped. If you did decide to serve the large heifers would there be space with milkers for them? Good diet and all the ones bulling in one area could lead to better submission and conception rates.

Milked out · 26-11-2015 01:31AM

Last fr calf of 2015 born while ago, bull , nearly as handy as last heifer was born 2.5 weeks ago. Only 13 heifers but had a few late spring heifers this year which may not do for spring ai so they can add on. A bb due in 2.5 weeks and sin e till mid jan. Shortening aut calving period seems to have paid off, all bar these two have calved outside and Nov milk up 40% as not many dry for the month in total, may take a slight hit in jan supply with more spring cows dry but plan for this year is start ai 1 jan get all heifers served and serve cows for 4 weeks. Any cow after that can roll over or out depending on the cow in question. Must read this post again in mid Feb to remind me just in case. ..

Injuryprone · 26-11-2015 01:45AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Certainly do. 130 cubicles lagoon and 18 unit parlour in the pipeline

Just a quick note on this and I know it probably doesn't apply, but just in case it does if you're stretching things for the short term, you won't get grants on the new buildings if your existing yard hasn't got the storage capacity for the stock you currently have. Came up at a recent teagasc meeting

Deepsouthwest · 26-11-2015 09:04AM

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I have a bit of problem lads.
It's a good one to have though.
I gave 12 autumn born heifers born last sept/Oct.
I wasn't going to breed these until May because I don't want any more autumn calvers but need more spring calvers.
But there massive. Easily 350 kgs. One girl not far off 400. And I wouldn't class out herd as big. Av cow 550 kgs.
Secondly I've no where to put my spring born heifers - 25 of them.
Brought them to out farm today thinking there would be loads of room in shed there but it will be way too cramped with 37 heifers in one side so I let them into a paddock for tonight till we think of something.

Any ideas?
We have a big 35ft by 60ft hay shed here but it's full up with straw

First world problem here I think! It's only 12 yearlings who need their thrive restricted a bit for the nxt few months. Ull squeeze them in somewhere, maybe with the cows. If it was me, I'd winter the 12 smallest Spring born calves outside on grass and meal, and maybe a bit of silage if grass is tight, and shove the 12 yearlings in in their place.
No point in renting sheds, beet tops, extra ground for 12 yearlings.

freedominacup · 26-11-2015 09:08AM

Injuryprone wrote: »

Just a quick note on this and I know it probably doesn't apply, but just in case it does if you're stretching things for the short term, you won't get grants on the new buildings if your existing yard hasn't got the storage capacity for the stock you currently have. Came up at a recent teagasc meeting

I have big questions about these grants. Neighbour saved 35k by not building during the last grant scheme. Between the ridiculously high spec for grant buildings, contractors overpricing because of demand, concrete through the roof, running the job himself and doing a good bit directly etc he was that much better off by waiting net of the grant. Add in that ridiculous stipulation about having to already be speced up to the nines and I'd say a lot of people would be better off ploughing their own furrow.

whelan2 · 26-11-2015 09:34AM

Doing second shot of salmonella in next few days, how long do I wait before going in with rotavec?

st1979 · 26-11-2015 09:46AM

freedominacup wrote:

I have big questions about these grants. Neighbour saved 35k by not building during the last grant scheme. Between the ridiculously high spec for grant buildings, contractors overpricing because of demand, concrete through the roof, running the job himself and doing a good bit directly etc he was that much better off by waiting net of the grant. Add in that ridiculous stipulation about having to already be speced up to the nines and I'd say a lot of people would be better off ploughing their own furrow.

Most of those reasons will not be valid going forward with grants available. Demand for builders and concrete is rising now with or without grants due to building getting going again in towns. So prices are rising. Steel is down due to China. And he can do a lot of work himself and still get paid the grant. On shed specs I found them not to over the top. Small bit extra for " grant approved" cladding but 40% grant more than covers that.

So in summary your friend was able to save a lot comparing prices from peak demand to waiting a year or 2 and building in the worst recession ever. But how much would he save today by being cute and clever and buying well. I would reckon a lot less than 40%.
My dad had me scared stiff of grants but I found it actually easy enough and inspectors were gentlemen which makes a big difference

RightTurnClyde · 26-11-2015 10:33AM

st1979 wrote: »

Most of those reasons will not be valid going forward with grants available. Demand for builders and concrete is rising now with or without grants due to building getting going again in towns. So prices are rising. Steel is down due to China. And he can do a lot of work himself and still get paid the grant. On shed specs I found them not to over the top. Small bit extra for " grant approved" cladding but 40% grant more than covers that.

So in summary your friend was able to save a lot comparing prices from peak demand to waiting a year or 2 and building in the worst recession ever. But how much would he save today by being cute and clever and buying well. I would reckon a lot less than 40%.
My dad had me scared stiff of grants but I found it actually easy enough and inspectors were gentlemen which makes a big difference

Very true, you have to remember that at the tail end of the 60% grant scheme came a major recession, everything halved in price overnight so it was easy to do the work then cheaper than with the grant. The curve is moving in the opposite direction now. Not going for the grant, you could get caught on the double.
(That 60% grant was a brilliant grant when done with own labour. I got up enough housing (straw shed)for 120 cows and an outdoor 300k gal concrete tank for €38k. There's 160 cubicles in the shed now.)

mahoney_j · 26-11-2015 10:34AM

frazzledhome wrote: »

He looked for advise as opposed to a lecture

Don't see it as a lecture frazzled ,I've posed solutions and asked very relevant questions which need to be asked .gg is playing a blinder building stock but housing ,slurry storage and parlour seem to be a big issue.grsnts are there but he could be playing himself out of contention now as when grant is applied for it is taken that you are nitrate complient for slurry storage for current nos.if you've 200 stock but only accommodation and storage for 130 your goosed for grant and WILL be inspected and penalised for non complient years .

Buford T. Justice XIX · 26-11-2015 10:59AM

whelan2 wrote: »

we sit down each year and work out were everything goes, no use realising on day of housing you dont have enough room. ye all must have fantastic county council inspectors that let ye wait until last minute to worry about housing

Round here, they only seem to inspect those close to a water extraction point for the council.

And any pollution that shows up on rivers. We only ever had one inspection from the council when a neighbour let a couple of thousand gallons into the river when a wall cracked.

Greengrass1 · 26-11-2015 11:07AM

Dad has the problem sorted

We'll bring home the 12 the the 25 bullets can go in where they were.
Put the 12 in padock beside the yard and they can go in and out as they please and eat away at the feeding barrier.
One will be bred because she is far too big

Buford T. Justice XIX · 26-11-2015 11:08AM

Injuryprone wrote: »

Just a quick note on this and I know it probably doesn't apply, but just in case it does if you're stretching things for the short term, you won't get grants on the new buildings if your existing yard hasn't got the storage capacity for the stock you currently have. Came up at a recent teagasc meeting

Straw bedding area is a get of of jail free clause for the grant. You can have storage for a lot of cattle once you have straw bedding. I have used it for the current grant scheme along with outwintering young stock and I have a lot of extra cattle from being locked up with TB.

Timmaay · 26-11-2015 11:23AM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Straw bedding area is a get of of jail free clause for the grant. You can have storage for a lot of cattle once you have straw bedding. I have used it for the current grant scheme along with outwintering young stock and I have a lot of extra cattle from being locked up with TB.

If you've recently done a derogation plan then your over the line, which GG has.

kowtow · 26-11-2015 11:40AM

Timmaay wrote: »

If you've recently done a derogation plan then your over the line, which GG has.

Can you not straw bed with the derogation?

Dairy Chit Chat- Please read Mod note in post #1

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