Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

eviltwin · 25-11-2015 09:20PM

Candie wrote: »

No, but a victim nonetheless, and so are the 17 year old boys thinking they're off to fight a holy war and find themselves being strapped with bombs and told to blow themselves up or have their families rejected by their god. They may not be innocent, but they're still lives wasted in thrall to a cult. I'm sure when they were being indoctrinated that they were told the atrocities were Western propaganda designed to keep them away from their Muslim brothers.

Not an innocent victim, but still a pregnant teenager beaten to death. I don't think gang rape jokes are necessary on top of that.

I do have sympathy to some extent but very little. Its not like she was in an abusive relationship. She made a decision to join Isis, she would have have some idea what life would be like when she went. She still decided to go. Her pregnancy and age is irrelevant really as far as I'm concerned. People can and do get mixed up in dangerous situations through stupidity, bad luck but I don't think this is one of those situations. She sought out a group known for their barbarism and lack of respect for women and the West. Sh!t happens.

Benteke · 25-11-2015 09:22PM

Candie wrote: »

It takes a genuine badass to say this about a pregnant 17 year old who was beaten to death.

I have no sympathy for someone who wants to join that scum, I hope she suffered like all of their victims

10000maniacs · 25-11-2015 09:23PM

Evolution in action.
And now for the next Darwin award, play Russian roulette with a semi automatic pistol. or invite a million unchecked Syrians to live in your country.

Fleawuss · 25-11-2015 09:31PM

Candie wrote: »

No, but a victim nonetheless, and so are the 17 year old boys thinking they're off to fight a holy war and find themselves being strapped with bombs and told to blow themselves up or have their families rejected by their god. They may not be innocent, but they're still lives wasted in thrall to a cult. I'm sure when they were being indoctrinated that they were told the atrocities were Western propaganda designed to keep them away from their Muslim brothers.

Not an innocent victim, but still a pregnant teenager beaten to death. I don't think gang rape jokes are necessary on top of that.

A very balanced, charitable and completely useless perspective. The full description of her would have to include her membership, voluntary and achieved with some difficulty, of an appalling anti-human religious extremist group. She embraced their values and she died from them. On a technical note a gang bang needn't be rape and the poster was obviously pointing out the absurdity of the IS obsession with martyrdom and sexual excess in "heaven". Of course making a mockery of idiocy like that isn't necessary but neither is a thread on the fool and her death.

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 09:32PM

I really don't understand why some people on here expect others to have 'sympathy' for these terrorists. Not condoning gloating / celebrating their death is one thing, but expecting sympathy for them is going too far.

wakka12 · 25-11-2015 09:32PM

opiniated wrote: »

Ah, c'mon. They were 16 and 17 year old kids.
The jerk who recruited them probably made all sorts of promises. It's sad that they believed him/her, and when they discovered the truth, they couldn't get out.

Do you not have even a tiny bit of sympathy for their families?

That's just it. They weren't thinking, they were being fed a load of lies, and they fell for them.

Do you honestly think that any girl reared in the West would willingly switch to a society where the freedom they are accustomed to is so severely curtailed, if they had actually stopped to think about it?

Ask any Irish 16 year old what they think will happen if they go to join ISIS. Her youth is no excuse for her stupid decision , I can't feel any sympathy for somebody who joins the side of a murderous cult. It wasnt as if ISIS were secretive about their mass murder and violence so what did she expect.

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 09:34PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Evolution in action.
And now for the next Darwin award, play Russian roulette with a semi automatic pistol. or invite a million unchecked Syrians to live your country.

I guess Merkel wanted to up the stakes even further.

kettlehead · 25-11-2015 09:44PM

Candie wrote: »

It takes a genuine badass to say this about a pregnant 17 year old who was beaten to death.

Ah, yeah. The poor oul craytur. Sure she was just running around with an AK with ISIS. Make no mistake here, she would have had you, me and everyone else here, in an orange jumpsuit,on our knees, pissing ourselves about to get our heads carved off.

She does not deserve your defence of her nor your sympathy.

25-11-2015 09:46PM

kettlehead wrote: »

Ah, yeah. The poor oul craytur. Sure she was just running around with an AK with ISIS. Make no mistake here, she would have had you, me and everyone else here, in an orange jumpsuit,on our knees, pissing ourselves about to get our heads carved off.

I'm just not okay with anyone getting their head carved off or beaten to death. I'm against barbarism, full stop.

Just like I'm against the death penalty, regardless of the crime. I don't think beating someone to death is ever justified.

Hemerodrome · 25-11-2015 09:56PM

kettlehead wrote: »

She does not deserve your defence of her nor your sympathy.

Who are you to tell anyone who to sympathise with? A young girl died as a result of barbaric views and her own stupidity, little different to young men dying in car crashes or taking their own lives or being conscripted. Lose sympathy for them and you might as well give in to barbarity because you're less human already.

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 10:00PM

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Who are you to tell anyone who to sympathise with? A young girl died as a result of barbaric views and her own stupidity, little different to young men dying in car crashes or taking their own lives or being conscripted. Lose sympathy for them and you might as well give in to barbarity because you're less human already.

How can you compare her situation with conscription. That is ridiculous.

25-11-2015 10:00PM

kettlehead wrote: »

She does not deserve your defence of her nor your sympathy.

There's a huge difference between trying to understand the motivation of something, and defending it. I did not defend her actions.

Read the posts again if you're confused, but do not put words in my mouth.

smash · 25-11-2015 10:00PM

Hemerodrome wrote: »

A young girl died as a result of barbaric views that she herself believed and and participated in, and her own stupidity

fyp

Sand · 25-11-2015 10:03PM

Candie wrote: »

I'm against barbarism, full stop.

I don't think beating someone to death is ever justified.

Problem is, ISIS are in favour of barbarism. They have burnt people to death, filmed it, released it to the media and held public celebrations. Now, a member of that group who willing left home and travelled by themself to join that group so they could live a barbaric life has met a barbaric end.

I have more sympathy for the victims of ISIS than I have for the members of ISIS. I do not count these girls as being victims of ISIS.

On the wider point, people describing them as ill informed or clueless children. They were, as others pointed out, teenagers. That's an age group, not a intellectual disability. They were far better informed than anyone else reading this thread was on ISIS or what they were about. No one here would have the first clue about how to join ISIS. Not the first clue - where do you fly to? What routes will attract police and intelligence services? What area is the safest to cross the border? Which towns or areas are held by ISIS so you approach the right group once you are in Syria.

These girls did some serious research and planning to accomplish their exit from their homes and journey across Europe and across the frontlines of a war to join ISIS. They were a lot of things, but they were not stupid or ill-informed about ISIS or what they do to their victims. ISIS recruiters practically revel in the brutality and it is a big selling point to people who join them. The girls happily lent themselves to further propaganda efforts to recruit more for ISIS who will meet a similar fate.

FortySeven · 25-11-2015 10:04PM

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Who are you to tell anyone who to sympathise with? A young girl died as a result of barbaric views and her own stupidity, little different to young men dying in car crashes or taking their own lives or being conscripted. Lose sympathy for them and you might as well give in to barbarity because you're less human already.

It's nothing like any of those things. One less scumbag in the world. Good riddance, one less useless eater.

eviltwin · 25-11-2015 10:04PM

Candie wrote: »

There's a huge difference between trying to understand the motivation of something, and defending it. I did not defend her actions.

Read the posts again if you're confused, but do not put words in my mouth.

And there is a huge difference between not having sympathy for her and taking pleasure in her death. I think its a terrible end for someone so young but I don't feel sad for her. You live by the sword yada yada.

Eugene Norman · 25-11-2015 10:06PM

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Who are you to tell anyone who to sympathise with? A young girl died as a result of barbaric views and her own stupidity, little different to young men dying in car crashes or taking their own lives or being conscripted. Lose sympathy for them and you might as well give in to barbarity because you're less human already.

Do you feel less human for calling people less human?

The self righteousness is strong in this thread. But it's not "idealistic" to join ISIS no more than it was idealistic to join the waffen SS. And many teenagers who joined the latter were indoctrinated in the Nazi anti-humanist philosophy for years.

Anybody who left the west to join a group known to rape, ethnic cleanse, to behead prisoners, to crucify infidels, to hold and trade slaves and more very much deserves their fate. Teenager or not.

This isn't some high jinks excusable by the fact of their age, it's psychopathy.

StewartGriffin · 25-11-2015 10:09PM

opiniated wrote: »

On the other hand, it does make it harder to understand how these young girls became radicalised. It's not like they were heading into a womens Utopia, so why join?

That's a good point. How do these girls allow themselves to look past the fact they are treated like **** by the people running these groups? The human mind is a peculiar thing.

For boys its more of an inbuilt desire for adventure, to go to war. I remember when I was about 15/16 I wanted to go to fight the war in Bosnia. I think if it was easier to travel I actually might have gone. That's how dumb I was as a teenage boy. Hadn't a clue what the war was about, just wanted some "action." If I had got there I would most likely have died crying for my mammy. Think of the recruitment drives during WW1, entire communities of young lads heading off for a bit of adventure.

Eugene Norman · 25-11-2015 10:17PM

Hemerodrome wrote: »

Who are you to tell anyone who to sympathise with? A young girl died as a result of barbaric views and her own stupidity, little different to young men dying in car crashes or taking their own lives or being conscripted. Lose sympathy for them and you might as well give in to barbarity because you're less human already.

Oh, and by the way (since I missed this boldified bit the first time) what kind of moral imbecile would equate joining a death cult known to rape, enslave and grotesquely kill others people to suicide? or compare a deliberate freely made choice to being conscripted?

Azalea · 25-11-2015 10:44PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

most people think women aren't fully capable of thinking for themselves or looking after themselves, bless them.

Ah most people do not.

She was a daft bint for doing it, but she then tried to escape. I don't understand people condemning Isis's methods but then being "Meh" about them carrying out one of their executions on someone who was trying to escape them and was pregnant.

And I would definitely think the same way if this story was about a teenage guy.

Sunflower 27 · 25-11-2015 10:45PM

end of the road wrote: »

anyone who would justify or condone the beating to death of a woman, specially someone who may be pregnant is as far as i'm concerned, one of the dregs of society

Huh? So she can kill but should not be killed? She was also a dreg of society.

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 10:45PM

Azalea wrote: »

Ah most people do not.

She was a daft bint for doing it, but she then tried to escape. I don't understand people condemning Isis's methods but then being "Meh" about them carrying out one of their executions on someone who was trying to escape them and was pregnant.

And I would definitely think the same way if this story was about a teenage guy.

She was one of them - she wasn't just trying to escape as an innocent bystander.

And realistically, how much of a role model would she be for a child? That child is better off never having been born.

Ave Sodalis · 25-11-2015 10:47PM

sonny.knowles wrote:

She was one of them - she wasn't just trying to escape as an innocent bystander.

But surely this is something we should be encouraging, not condemning? I get that emotions play very high here but if you think about it logically, surely encouraging the exact opposite to what ISIS is trying to do is a positive way forward?

The_Kew_Tour · 25-11-2015 10:49PM

LDN_Irish wrote: »

This will please plenty of posters here. Loads of people were gleeful at the prospect of yer wan being unable to successfully defect from IS without being killed. Some weird "enemy of my enemy"type thinking involved when both the enemy and friend is IS.

Yes I am pleased she is dead.

She could have killed innocent people on a street, our at an event.

She deserved everything she got. Good riddance hope she gets her 57 Virgins at gates of hell.

Badly Drunk Boy · 25-11-2015 10:51PM

smash wrote: »

There's a lot of defending the girls age here. While I accept that she was brainwashed young, 17yr olds can join the US marines and people aren't up in arms over that.

From Depressing Comic Week 10:

http://explosm.net/comics/4128/

jeremymurphy · 25-11-2015 10:54PM

There are a lot of horrible people posting here.

sonny.knowles · 25-11-2015 10:54PM

sup_dude wrote: »

But surely this is something we should be encouraging, not condemning? I get that emotions play very high here but if you think about it logically, surely encouraging the exact opposite to what ISIS is trying to do is a positive way forward?

Not sure the point you are making. She has been radicalised, she could never safely be part of western society again.

We should not take these people back because they claim to have changed their minds.

They made their decision, they need to see it through to the end, whatever that end is. Death in battle, a drone strike or otherwise.

Obviously ISIS will make an example of these cases to discourage deserters. That was a risk she took.

the_syco · 25-11-2015 11:01PM

Benteke wrote: »

I'm sure she is enjoying her 72 man gang bang in heaven

If reports that came out around the time of their disappearance, I'd say she's gone through several hundred at this stage!

opiniated wrote: »

If they were 16, fair enough. They should have known better, though I would still argue that they didn't have the same level of sense as someone who was, say, 22 or 23.

Seems there are laws against Muslims in Austria, so I'm wondering if perhaps the girls saw ISIS as a place that would allow them to practise their religion in peace?

Oh, and two years ago ISIS were telling people that they would treat women as equals, that they needed nurses, blah blah blah. I'd say they also told virgin men that they'd get their 72 virgins, and maybe a few more before they died.

Hemerodrome wrote: »

A young girl died as a result of barbaric views and her own stupidity, little different to young men dying in car crashes

A girl dying as a result of barbaric views is equal to a young man dying after skulling excess drink beforehand.

Sand wrote: »

These girls did some serious research and planning to accomplish their exit from their homes and journey across Europe and across the frontlines of a war to join ISIS.

Depending on how they did their research, they may have been contacted off-line and led to believe that the news are all lies. If you target someone that is anti-establishment, who doesn't believe in what the government says, it's not much of a leap to have them believe that the government is a conspiracy to stop "true believers" from being a "proper muslim.

Like any recruitment agency, they won't be around when you find out that they lied to get you into the job.

Ave Sodalis · 25-11-2015 11:02PM

sonny.knowles wrote:

Not sure the point you are making. She has been radicalised, she could never safely be part of western society again.

You don't know that...

My point is that it's very clear that ISIS is making massive efforts to recruit members. In fact, that's basically their entire aim. Why would anyone be encouraged to leave it if they're going to be killed or condemned for doing so anyway?

Of course, it would be different if she was killed committing the act you speak of, or as a consequence of them. She wasn't though. She was killed running from them. To me, that makes a huge amount of difference. It doesn't excuse what she has done, but it does shed some new light on the situation.

whatdoyouknow · 25-11-2015 11:05PM

It's kind of strange that people are delighted these girls are dead. Young people join armies all the time, they make stupid decisions. Sure many Irish people joined the British army over the years, doesn't mean we should be delighted when they die.

Austrian ISIS 'poster girl' reportedly beaten to death after trying to escape Syria

Comments