Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Smiles35 · 23-11-2015 02:58PM

kettlehead wrote: »

Is your whataboutery Protestant, Catholic or atheist whataboutery?

Think he's playing an imagined prodestant divil today. I know I've rolled around with one in a fever lately.

23-11-2015 03:11PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

Both sides historically had their terrorisms and their political wars.

This argument that it has nothing to do with religion is really ridiculous...it reminds of when Catholics talk about the Christian brothers not being real Catholics...The pope isn't a real Catholic...Vatican one isn't real...

Circumcision has nothing to do with Judaism. Yes it does.

The far right fundamentalists in the US are directly pumping money into Isreal because of an end of days apocolyptic fantasy. And yes that does have something to do with Protestants!!

Come on.... you mean they are not that religion in how YOU want to see that religion.

The denial that this has anything to do with Islam or religion or the supernatural is because people do not want to consider they have any psychological proximity to it. Religion has always been about power.

Your last sentence has contradicted the rest of your post, If it is about power then it is not about religion, It is about using religion to gain and maintain power.

jobbridge4life · 23-11-2015 03:21PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Your last sentence has contradicted the rest of your post, If it is about power then it is not about religion, It is about using religion to gain and maintain power.

People can have multiple motives you know. The world doesn't have to be built up on strict binary choice.

zeffabelli · 23-11-2015 03:24PM

mariaalice wrote: »

Your last sentence has contradicted the rest of your post, If it is about power then it is not about religion, It is about using religion to gain and maintain power.

It's not either/or.

Overheal · 23-11-2015 03:41PM

So nobody will decry 'Christian terrorism' or 'Protestant terrorism' so why decry "Islamic terrorism"?

zeffabelli · 23-11-2015 03:46PM

Overheal wrote: »

So nobody will decry 'Christian terrorism' or 'Protestant terrorism' so why decry "Islamic terrorism"?

Because that is how they self identify? If they called themselves the Protestant state...yes we would call them that...

And in case no one noticed, Home Rule was Rome rule....

Uncle Ben · 23-11-2015 03:57PM

Overheal wrote: »

Were the IRA bombings Christian terrorism or Protestant terrorism?

Fitzgerald wasn't talking about IRA bombers. She was talking about those Islamic terrorists who committed that massacre in Paris. Those Islamists from the organisation Islamic State.

Billy86 · 23-11-2015 04:14PM

kettlehead wrote: »

They are all of recent North African immigrant descent. They are not native Europeans.

Europes crazy immigration policies of the previous few decades are firmly coming home to roost.

Actually, when someone is born in a country they are by definition a native of that country - "a person born in a specified place or associated with a place by birth, whether subsequently resident there or not".

Again I will direct you back to the huge percentage of foreign born people living in Canada, not just now but over many decades.

kunst nugget · 23-11-2015 04:21PM

An interesting article showing how data was manipulating to make it seem that a sizeable minority of British Muslims had sympathy for jihadis when it meant nothing of the sort.

The Sun newspaper’s Monday front page leads with the claim that one in five British Muslims have some sympathy with people travelling abroad to fight on the side of jihadis in Syria.

There are some very big problems with this story and the way it has interpreted a poll.

The poll question the story is based on does not even mention jihadis.
The newspaper’s headline claims that one in five British Muslims have some sympathy for Jihadis. This assertion is based on a polling question whether respondents have “sympathy with young Muslims who leave to UK to join fighters in Syria”.

Respondents were allowed to say whether they had “a lot” “some” or “no” sympathy with such people travelling to Syria. The problem with the Sun’s interpretation of this poll is that people travelling to Syria are not necessarily going to fight on the side of jihadis.

There have been high-profile examples of British people going to fight on the side of, for instance, the Kurds, who are fighting against Isis.

The biggest problem with the poll is that if you ask non-Muslims the same questions, they actually provide very similar responses.

The same poll question, asked for Sky News in March to all GB residents – found that 14 per cent of the general population had some “sympathy” for young Muslims leaving to fight in Syria.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/no-one-in-five-muslims-do-not-support-isis-a6745206.html

jobbridge4life · 23-11-2015 04:25PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

An interesting article showing how data was manipulating to make it seem that a sizeable minority of British Muslims had sympathy for jihadis when it meant nothing of the sort.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/no-one-in-five-muslims-do-not-support-isis-a6745206.html

That poll is obvious trash. I have sympathy for the guys who go and join ISIS. I think to myself how f'd up in the head you have to be, how sad and pathetic and I think of what is going to happen to them. Having sympathy for someone is not the same as supporting them, or identifying with their beliefs.

jackofalltrades · 23-11-2015 04:31PM

Overheal wrote: »

So nobody will decry 'Christian terrorism' or 'Protestant terrorism' so why decry "Islamic terrorism"?

Why don't you start up a thread about Christian terrorism or Protestant terrorism, then people can condemn it.
Until then it's just more straw-manning and whataboutery.

jmayo · 23-11-2015 04:35PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That poll is obvious trash. I have sympathy for the guys who go and join ISIS. I think to myself how f'd up in the head you have to be, how sad and pathetic and I think of what is going to happen to them. Having sympathy for someone is not the same as supporting them, or identifying with their beliefs.

Personally I find it very hard to have sympathy for anyone that chooses to go join ISIS as it is perfectly obvious to anyone how vicious and evil they are.
And I don't care if someone around here claims evil is some old religious construct, it encapsulates someone who decides to kill others purely on the fact they believe in some other religion, even if only a different version of the same religion, chooses to slaughter people in the most gruesome manner as some sort of gory sideshow or take women and young girls basically as sex slaves based on some medieval text.

Sorry I don't have any sympathy for them, plenty of revulsion yes.

Micky Dolenz · 23-11-2015 04:36PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That poll is obvious trash. I have sympathy for the guys who go and join ISIS. I think to myself how f'd up in the head you have to be, how sad and pathetic and I think of what is going to happen to them. Having sympathy for someone is not the same as supporting them, or identifying with their beliefs.

It couldn't have been more badly worded if they tried and I am sure they tried.

Ash.J.Williams · 23-11-2015 04:36PM

killing joke - New jerusulam

Fragmented communities staring at their screens in silence
All-night surfing till the dawn
Everyone’s hooked on online porn
All the people indifferent to torture
The media gives the thumbs up to the Gaza slaughter
Shallow, no attention span
No empathy for the common man
In Iraq a quarter of a million dead
Howdya feel about being misled?
The number one surveillance state
Zero regulation and there’s no debate
More lies, manufactured enemies
Divided nations need a common foe
A hornet’s nest created by the West
A new world order is the only goal
Look what we’ve become
Brainwashed Britain
Look what we’ve become
New Jerusalem!
New Jerusalem!
Another twat in the Number 10 flat
Dancing to the tune of Goldman Sachs
Another knob got the top job
Selling out to corporations
Culture, adult entertainment, calibrated to dumb down
Big Brother said ‘Strictly Come Dancing’
And everyone was dancing round and round
In Iraq a quarter of a million dead
Howdya feel about being misled?
The number one surveillance state
Zero regulation and there’s no debate
More lies, manufactured enemies
Divided nations need a common foe
A hornet’s nest created by the West
A new world order is the only goal
Look what we’ve become
Brainwashed Britain
Look what we’ve become
New Jerusalem!
New Jerusalem!
New Jerusalem!

fed up sick and tired · 23-11-2015 04:41PM

Overheal wrote: »

Were the IRA bombings Christian terrorism or Protestant terrorism?

Uhhh... Christian or Protestant ?

You have some background reading to do, if this is the level you're operating at.

Rippington · 23-11-2015 04:44PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I have sympathy for the guys who go and join ISIS.

Its when they decide to come back to Ireland ,uk and other parts of Europe after their monthly jaunts to Syria and other places to live ' normal ' lives again that really grinds my gears .If you decide to go over to join Daesh than stay the fcuk over there because if the authorities implemented the plan to keep them out of the country once they go ( no civil liberty rights ) you would soon see the numbers dwindle .

kunst nugget · 23-11-2015 04:48PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That poll is obvious trash. I have sympathy for the guys who go and join ISIS. I think to myself how f'd up in the head you have to be, how sad and pathetic and I think of what is going to happen to them. Having sympathy for someone is not the same as supporting them, or identifying with their beliefs.

I wouldn't have any sympathy for people joining ISIS in Syria but I would have sympathy for fighters helping the Kurds or any freedom fighters in Syria battling against ISIS. The question in that poll doesn't make that distinction and only asks if you have sympathy for people in the UK fighting in Syria.

Overheal · 23-11-2015 04:48PM

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

Uhhh... Christian or Protestant ?

You have some background reading to do, if this is the level you're operating at.

Well it's a bit like saying are we blaming all of Islam or just the Sunnis or the Shi'ites :rolleyes: you've got some background reading to do if that's the comprehension level you're operating at.

Overheal · 23-11-2015 04:51PM

Why don't you start up a thread about Christian terrorism or Protestant terrorism, then people can condemn it.
Until then it's just more straw-manning and whataboutery.

I disagree, it accurately highlights a logical fallacy widely present in this entire incident.

jackofalltrades · 23-11-2015 04:56PM

Overheal wrote: »

I disagree, it accurately highlights a logical fallacy widely present in this entire incident.

What logical fallacy is that?

jobbridge4life · 23-11-2015 05:01PM

jmayo wrote: »

Personally I find it very hard to have sympathy for anyone that chooses to go join ISIS as it is perfectly obvious to anyone how vicious and evil they are.
And I don't care if someone around here claims evil is some old religious construct, it encapsulates someone who decides to kill others purely on the fact they believe in some other religion, even if only a different version of the same religion, chooses to slaughter people in the most gruesome manner as some sort of gory sideshow or take women and young girls basically as sex slaves based on some medieval text.

Sorry I don't have any sympathy for them, plenty of revulsion yes.

They are not mutually exclusive feelings.

Overheal · 23-11-2015 05:04PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

What logical fallacy is that?

That the actions of a few speak to the beliefs of many.

zeffabelli · 23-11-2015 05:06PM

Overheal wrote: »

That the actions of a few speak to the beliefs of many.

Not so simple.

In any ideology, the extremists make the moderates look good. Without the extremists, the moderates look nuts.

It's like when I hear my religious aunt explain how the pharisees have taken over the Church...complete denial that the Chruch have faciliated and enabled a legacy of cruelties.

Same with feminism...how many times do you hear....oh those are the extreme feminists?

Give me a break... religion is slavery.

fed up sick and tired · 23-11-2015 06:20PM

Overheal wrote: »

Well it's a bit like saying are we blaming all of Islam or just the Sunnis or the Shi'ites :rolleyes: you've got some background reading to do if that's the comprehension level you're operating at.

I thought about pointing out to you that the 'Christian or Protestant' statement of yours is incongruous, since Protestantism is a tradition within Christianity.

I'm now sorry that I overestimated you.

Overheal · 23-11-2015 06:36PM

http://www.live5news.com/story/30582022/muslim-student-in-downtown-greenville-do-you-trust-me-give-me-a-hug#.VlLrKgOtW4Q.twitter?clienttype=generic

GREENVILLE, SC (FOX Carolina) -
An Upstate college student offered hugs in downtown Greenville this weekend as part of a "Hugs for Humanity" social experiment.

Alend Barzenji said he decided to conduct the social experiment after recent terrorist attacks around the world committed in the name of Islam.

"I'm here conducting a social experiment in light of recent events such as the bombing in Paris," Barzenji said in a video posted to Youtube. "A lot of people judged Muslims harshly, thinking that all of us, our entire religious group, are terrorists. I'm here to prove that not all that is true."

Barzenji stood in One City Plaza on North Main Street on Saturday with a blindfold on and his arms spread. Beside him, he had two signs. One said, "I am a Muslim. Humanity has labeled my kind as terrorists. #NotAllMuslimsAreTerrorists."

The other sign said, "I trust you. Do you trust me? Give me a hug. #HugsForHumanity."

Barzenji said hugs, for him, create a unique opportunity to unite people of all backgrounds.

"It's as close to someone as you can get to express your trust, love, and appreciation for their being," he said. "Think about it; from the time we are born, as babies, we are hugged by our parents and we do the same for our children and other loved ones to comfort them. It makes us feel special and raises our self-esteem."

The video shows dozens of people in downtown Greenville stopping to embrace him.

He described the public response to his experiment as "a truly miraculous experience."

"Nothing negative was said to me and, frankly, I was a little surprised," he said. "Everyone either congratulated me for my bravery of standing there so vulnerable, thanked me for expressing what some could not find the courage to express, told me they were proud, and just had nothing but positive things to say."

Barzenji said he is currently working on other clever ways to spread his message of love and acceptance.

Mobile users can watch the video of Barzenji's experiment here.

Copyright 2015 FOX Carolina (Meredith Corporation). All rights reserved.

stunmer · 23-11-2015 06:37PM

Overheal wrote: »

http://www.live5news.com/story/30582022/muslim-student-in-downtown-greenville-do-you-trust-me-give-me-a-hug#.VlLrKgOtW4Q.twitter?clienttype=generic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpDnw4Wevxs

Overheal · 23-11-2015 06:41PM

^ what are we trying to conclude from that?

Nodin · 23-11-2015 06:55PM

Overheal wrote: »

^ what are we trying to conclude from that?

Unsure, but I think I know what this one is saying, and its sadly reflected a lot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqgMmibSXoY

stunmer · 23-11-2015 06:56PM

My video had a statistically insignificant social experiment with interesting results.

Your video was a stupid "#HugsForHumanity" experiment with no real point......

Overheal · 23-11-2015 07:06PM

Offered it not as a proof of anything but just a comment against people thinking about these attacks in a way that tries to vilify 1.6 billion people.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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