Steamed/Frothed milk.. Does it change with the seasons?

space2ground1 · 22-11-2015 9:39pm #1

Hi all,

I've a burning question and I think the experts I need are in this forum.
My nespresso machine was happily joined this summer by an aerocino and we had many happy times together up til now. In the last few weeks I've notice that the milk starts to fizz and bubble a lot more. It's happened gradually and varies with the brand of milk I use. Up til now I could tell which brands it would happen with but now its happening across the board.

Could this be something to do with the change in nutrients/food at the farm during the winter months? I'm curious!

Thanks!

glynf · 22-11-2015 10:07pm

I find milk tends to be harder to froth in the winter months. Did some research on it and read somewhere that as cows are being fed hay/silage etc. it's not as nutritional and certain enzymes are missing from the milk. This is apparently is why, will give a look about for source and post it here if found.

Mr Magnolia · 22-11-2015 10:11pm

Sure. Cows are grass fed from mid/late spring and on other stuff at this time of year.

You might have gathered that I ain't a farmer but a significant effect on the milk is accepted and noticeable.

alec76 · 23-11-2015 9:00am

I think organic, full fat milk is the way to go. I prefer organic Lidl milk ( 1L cartons)
Easy to create microfoam even in winter time IMO.

ecomac · 23-11-2015 12:03pm

I'm facing the same problem, something bad happened to the milk recently. I tried already Supervalue (plastic bottle & cardboard versions) and Lidl milk. It's nothing more than a water with some white paint in it. They used to be very good and thick, and now it's just white water. I'm going to try other brands shortly. If anybody knows what brand is still good, please let us know here.

PPC · 23-11-2015 2:46pm

I normally only use Avonmore milk as it was giving me consistent results and I think it tastes the best too.

glynf · 23-11-2015 6:30pm

Avonmore used here as well, decent full fat gives the most consistent foam. From reading around, its more to do with lower protien levels in the milk due to not being fed fresh grass.

BTW I can just about tell the front from the back of a cow...

cuculainn · 23-11-2015 6:40pm

Yeah,

No proper froth for me this week. same happened last winter, definitely full fat milk is better for froth

maisiedaisy · 23-11-2015 6:42pm

Dairy farmers daughter here! Milk at this time generally comes from two sources, 'fresh' cows that have calved maybe since August/Sept/Oct, and 'stale' cows that calved some time last spring. With the disappearance of milk quota, farmers who calve their cows in the spring may be milking them for longer now. (With quotas in place, you couldn't increase your production because you would be fined). These spring calving cows would normally be dried off by this time. Milk from 'stale' cows is generally higher in lactose, so that could have something to do with it.

Also, there are less and less farmers calving cows at this time of year, because it's becoming less and less economic to do so. Farmers that do this are called winter suppliers, and their milk generally supplies only our domestic liquid milk market. (Fun fact:if all winter suppliers vanish-there's only 2000 or so in Ireland-our milk will have to be imported in the winter months) So, with farmers switching to spring calving because it's cheaper, and spring calvers milking longer to fill the gap, there's a definite change the in profile of the milk. And that's before you get into the effects the changed diet at this time of year will have on milk.

Long story short, try a brand that traditionally has a good base of winter suppliers. Winter suppliers are generally close to cities for the increased population. So in Dublin, Premier Dairies milk could be worth a try, and Clona if you're in the Cork area. Not sure about other areas!!

space2ground1 · 23-11-2015 9:38pm

Isn't boards just amazing altogether

Thank you!!

maisiedaisy wrote: »

Dairy farmers daughter here! Milk at this time generally comes from two sources, 'fresh' cows that have calved maybe since August/Sept/Oct, and 'stale' cows that calved some time last spring. With the disappearance of milk quota, farmers who calve their cows in the spring may be milking them for longer now. (With quotas in place, you couldn't increase your production because you would be fined). These spring calving cows would normally be dried off by this time. Milk from 'stale' cows is generally higher in lactose, so that could have something to do with it.

Also, there are less and less farmers calving cows at this time of year, because it's becoming less and less economic to do so. Farmers that do this are called winter suppliers, and their milk generally supplies only our domestic liquid milk market. (Fun fact:if all winter suppliers vanish-there's only 2000 or so in Ireland-our milk will have to be imported in the winter months) So, with farmers switching to spring calving because it's cheaper, and spring calvers milking longer to fill the gap, there's a definite change the in profile of the milk. And that's before you get into the effects the changed diet at this time of year will have on milk.

Long story short, try a brand that traditionally has a good base of winter suppliers. Winter suppliers are generally close to cities for the increased population. So in Dublin, Premier Dairies milk could be worth a try, and Clona if you're in the Cork area. Not sure about other areas!!

jdburkedjburke · 24-11-2015 10:03am

Avonmore is another good one

donnacha · 25-11-2015 12:17am

Organic for us in this house.

James Hoffman blog is an interesting read:http://www.jimseven.com/2006/12/16/why-wont-my-milk-foam/

alec76 · 29-11-2015 11:55am

Have tried Organic for us , easy to froth milk, great taste too.

brianomc · 29-11-2015 12:00pm

I was beginning to wonder was it my aerocino, so I'm glad (in a way) to see others are having the same trouble.

The full fat Spar milk used to be perfect but now only bubbles. I had found the Marks and Spencer milk in the pink container was always another safe bet, so I must try it again.

I never got proper froth with Avonmore despite it working for others.

fleet · 29-11-2015 12:07pm

Weird!

I bought an Aerochino type machine (Graef actually) recently and finally settled on a brand and type of milk that worked best in it (fat and protein content differ I presume).

Then, if you'll excuse the hyperbole, last week all hell broke loose. All I get is huge bubbles and about a third of the foam, and no microfoam.

I though my machine was broken, but it seems to operate fine.

So I went and bought a coffee in the coffee shop, and it was the same!

Glad to see this is a common issue!

space2ground1 · 29-11-2015 1:18pm

Avanmore working best for me this week so far. I haven't tried organic yet but will give it a go later. Interesting!!

wonderfulname · 29-11-2015 1:49pm

Ex barista here - Completely agree with the opinions here, it's the change in seasons and cows diets, something we would have been warned about in training. I found milk needed to be fresher at this time of year than others, so try buying local from the back of the fridge, and not leaving milk out of the fridge too long, or stocking up a weeks supply in the house. It should help, used to for me anyway.

rubadub · 29-11-2015 5:32pm

I have seen & used "cappuccino" milk before, it was one of the main irish brands like avonmore or premier, not some UHT muck. I have never seen it in shops though.

Protein content is meant to effect frothing, there is avonmore protein milk now, and I think Lidl or Aldi have their own version, much cheaper. You might have to mix protein milk & regular milk to get an optimal amount.

Many skim or low fat milks will have added protein too. I remember drinking skim milk in the 80s and it really was like water, very thin tasting, it was rare to see it back then. Nowadays they add proteins to make it thicken up and not be watery. I have read some say it froths better because of this.

You could also get protein whey supplements, like what athletes use.

The_fever · 01-12-2015 1:28am

To answer the question yes it does change with the seasons. This time of year is the worst for frothing milk, alot of the cream is taken out of the mix as there is an upsurge of cream sales at Christmas . Glenisk confirmed this to me last year around this time as I was livid that the milk would not froth.

BoatMad · 03-12-2015 3:19am

The_fever wrote: »

To answer the question yes it does change with the seasons. This time of year is the worst for frothing milk, alot of the cream is taken out of the mix as there is an upsurge of cream sales at Christmas . Glenisk confirmed this to me last year around this time as I was livid that the milk would not froth.

The makeup of milk is fixed. a consistent amount of cream is removed in all seasons,

but yes milk changes with the seasons, unless the cows follow a strictly controlled diet, several quality ice cream providers I know, have to very strictly regulate their cows diets to ensure ice cream consistently , in Ireland as cows normally go from grass fed to silage, the milk changes considerably

Ernest · 05-12-2015 7:53pm

Is it acceptable to whatever food standards body might be involved that the milk quality changes every year around this time?
It doesn't seem acceptable to me just to say that the cows are fed differently or that different calving time are involved and that milk quality varies as a result. Surely retail milk should be of a consistent quality year round? Don't the dairy companies actually test the milk from farms as received and blend it appropriately to produce a consistent mixture in the packages? I would have expected them to do so.

PS:
I use different brands of low-fat organic milk which froths perfectly - up to about a week ago. I note that some people here recommend full fat milk which I have avoided on health grounds but I might now have to try it as it seems to be impossible to get the micro-bubbles necessary for cappuccino froth from the normal low fat organic milk at the moment.

lazeedaisy · 05-12-2015 8:02pm

We found this milk locally,

https://www.facebook.com/Fairfield-Farm-Fresh-Milk-311378459014284/

It's the best milk ever, I think it's because is not homogenized

maisiedaisy · 05-12-2015 8:17pm

Ernest wrote: »

Don't the dairy companies actually test the milk from farms as received and blend it appropriately to produce a consistent mixture in the packages? I would have expected them to do so.

As far as I know, retail milk is homogenized to have a certain % of fat and pr in it at all times. Whatever level is on the label for each nutrient is what it's blended to, I've something in my head that pr is 3.4% and bf is 3.7% in general. Someone who has more food science knowledge than I do may be able to explain this more scientifically, but at a chemical level the fat/protein composition changes due to diet, while the actual level in the milk is the same. I know when cows go out to grass, the level of Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA, good for your heart/cancer fighting and all that) increases in their milk, which has a denser, shorter fat acid chain. I'm not sure what the reverse of it is when they're housed. So it could be a change in the chemical make up of the fat and protein that is causing the milk to not froth, as opposed to a lower level.

BoatMad · 10-12-2015 12:09pm

lazeedaisy wrote: »

We found this milk locally,

https://www.facebook.com/Fairfield-Farm-Fresh-Milk-311378459014284/

It's the best milk ever, I think it's because is not homogenized

Im not sure why you think non homogenised milk is better, ?

no for taste non pasteurised milk is the dees bees but for safety not a great idea in general

BoatMad · 10-12-2015 12:32pm

maisiedaisy wrote: »

As far as I know, retail milk is homogenized to have a certain % of fat and pr in it at all times. Whatever level is on the label for each nutrient is what it's blended to, I've something in my head that pr is 3.4% and bf is 3.7% in general. Someone who has more food science knowledge than I do may be able to explain this more scientifically, but at a chemical level the fat/protein composition changes due to diet, while the actual level in the milk is the same. I know when cows go out to grass, the level of Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA, good for your heart/cancer fighting and all that) increases in their milk, which has a denser, shorter fat acid chain. I'm not sure what the reverse of it is when they're housed. So it could be a change in the chemical make up of the fat and protein that is causing the milk to not froth, as opposed to a lower level.

There are very few standards for milk , primarily fat content and protein content as a percentage of fat content, milk has to be heat treated and can have a fat content above or below the standard 3,5% as long as its labelled so, fat content can be modified from raw milk by the addition or removal of cream,

The boiling point cant be modified beyond a certain limit as well,

There are specific definitions of skimmed and semi-skimmed milk as well. certain additives, ( enhanced milks) are allowed as long as labelled so

Other then that its a natural product with natural variations. There would be no incentive for producers to " blend " milks

space2ground1 · 26-03-2016 7:50pm

Happy Easter lads 'n ladies.. I bring you news of great joy. The frothy milky goodness is back. I'm having success again with all kinds of milk. The cows must be back in good form.

J_E · 27-03-2016 12:11pm

Hope so! Been having real trouble getting smooth microfoam for weeks now.

coylemj · 28-03-2016 12:32am

space2ground1 wrote: »

Happy Easter lads 'n ladies.. I bring you news of great joy. The frothy milky goodness is back. I'm having success again with all kinds of milk. The cows must be back in good form.

+1 Noticed it for the past week or so, lots more bubbles and froth.

cuculainn · 30-03-2016 12:47pm

coylemj wrote: »

+1 Noticed it for the past week or so, lots more bubbles and froth.

Same as....frothing away again after a long winter......no more americanos for a while!!

Steamed/Frothed milk.. Does it change with the seasons?

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