Why should a man offer a seat to a woman on train/bus?

BabysCoffee · 21-11-2015 12:01PM

I always offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies (always the risk of offering to a "just fat" lady - but she might be glad of it too) or anyone who looks like they might need it.

Once a young lady asked for my seat as she said she was going to faint (overcrowded train). So it's always a good idea to keep a look out for someone who needs it.

I was brought up to offer my seat. This stems from my parents who kept me on their lap as a baby + toddler (as per condition of free travel) and then made me offer my seat or stand as an older child.

I think learning good manners and social etiquette on the bus is dying out going by the amount of parents who plonk their non fare paying child on to the seat beside them and dont take the kid on to their lap to free up a seat for any adult. They are as bad as the morons who feel the need to occupy a seat with their bag.

Cop on parents! Put your kid on your lap!!

Figbiscuithead · 21-11-2015 12:04PM

snickerpuss wrote: »

Wow all this time I've been sitting on the top deck of the bus unaware of the tense seat situation going on downstairs.

Most of it is completely blown out of proportion on this thread, though. Meanwhile in the real world...

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 12:05PM

snickerpuss wrote:

Wow all this time I've been sitting on the top deck of the bus unaware of the tense seat situation going on downstairs.

What??! You mean that you don't stand on the top deck for every person with a black hair and brown eyes combination?! Have you no manners??!

zeffabelli · 21-11-2015 12:05PM

Azalea wrote: »

Good. You'll retract your lies about all the hardline feminism on this thread and admit you were just trying to be a bit controversial in due course I assume.

Excuse me?

What are you the Internet water boarding warden?

zeffabelli · 21-11-2015 12:08PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I always offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies (always the risk of offering to a "just fat" lady - but she might be glad of it too) or anyone who looks like they might need it.

Once a young lady asked for my seat as she said she was going to faint (overcrowded train). So it's always a good idea to keep a look out for someone who needs it.

I was brought up to offer my seat. This stems from my parents who kept me on their lap as a baby + toddler (as per condition of free travel) and then made me offer my seat or stand as an older child.

I think learning good manners and social etiquette on the bus is dying out going by the amount of parents who plonk their non fare paying child on to the seat beside them and dont take the kid on to their lap to free up a seat for any adult. They are as bad as the morons who feel the need to occupy a seat with their bag.

Cop on parents! Put your kid on your lap!!

I paid a full fair for myself and my three year old on Irish rail for coast to coast train journey, and we ended up sitting for three hours in the space by the toilets that joins two carriages.

For all this talk of courtesy I haven't seen any of it.

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2015 12:11PM

amdublin wrote: »

I think you will find the driver has the same opinion as me. If you don't have a ticket for your child, under the terms and conditions of carriage the child must travel on the lap of a full fare paying adult. If you want your child to have a seat you must buy them a ticket.

Off you go and complain so. I'd be willing to see what the bus driver says though before I'd assume their opinion would agree with yours.

Rabo Karabekian · 21-11-2015 12:11PM

DellyBelly wrote: »

I was raised by my parents to give up my seat to old, disabled or mentally ill people and women. It's something I do now without even thinking. The only issue I do havei s what age is old. I personallyt honk anyone over 45 is old but it's hard to judge ages and I'd be afraid sometimes I might offend someone.

What a lovely grouping for women to be included in: old, disabled, and mentally ill.

And if you're offering people over 45 a seat based on age, I guarantee this won't work out well for you. It's people who are clearly elderly, so a rough ball park would be those eligible for a pension. Even going on this criteria, I have offended a fair few people by offering my seat.

MarkY91 · 21-11-2015 12:13PM

Do perfectly fine younger women actually expect a msn o give them a seat?...why?

This is the first I've ever heard of this.

whatismyname · 21-11-2015 12:16PM

MarkY91 wrote: »

Do perfectly fine younger women actually expect a msn o give them a seat?...why?

This is the first I've ever heard of this.

I'm guessing you haven't read (much of) the thread?

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2015 12:17PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I always offer my seat to older people, pregnant ladies (always the risk of offering to a "just fat" lady - but she might be glad of it too) or anyone who looks like they might need it.

Once a young lady asked for my seat as she said she was going to faint (overcrowded train). So it's always a good idea to keep a look out for someone who needs it.

I was brought up to offer my seat. This stems from my parents who kept me on their lap as a baby + toddler (as per condition of free travel) and then made me offer my seat or stand as an older child.

I think learning good manners and social etiquette on the bus is dying out going by the amount of parents who plonk their non fare paying child on to the seat beside them and dont take the kid on to their lap to free up a seat for any adult. They are as bad as the morons who feel the need to occupy a seat with their bag.

Cop on parents! Put your kid on your lap!!

I'd have no problem putting my child on my lap even before someone asked would I do so if I saw them in need of a seat, but if someone were to rock up to me and demand that I put my child on my lap or demand to see his ticket, I'd be telling them to go talk to the bus driver.

amdublin · 21-11-2015 12:17PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Off you go and complain so. I'd be willing to see what the bus driver says though before I'd assume their opinion would agree with yours.

Why are you so against following the terms of carriage?

If you paid for 5 stops for yourself would you stay on for 10?
Why is this one rule for your child causing you so much problems?

Just put your child on your lap. They are not entitled to a seat. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

Is this the example you want to set for your child "Now mary, don't ever bother following rules/buying correct tickets on the bus just do what you want and fk anybody who wants you do the right thing".

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 12:17PM

MarkY91 wrote:

Do perfectly fine younger women actually expect a msn o give them a seat?...why?

In real life, no. On this thread, it seems to be not that women expect it, you're just a mannerless feminazi if you don't... or if you do.... I lost track of what a feminist was half way through to be honest... it's just a buzzword for "this person doesn't agree with me".

BabysCoffee · 21-11-2015 12:19PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

I paid a full fair for myself and my three year old on Irish rail for coast to coast train journey, and we ended up sitting for three hours in the space by the toilets that joins two carriages.

For all this talk of courtesy I haven't seen any of it.

Aw, sorry to hear this. If I was travelling on this train with my husband, one of us would have offered you a seat that you could have sat on with your young 'un on your lap.

Did you complain to Irish Rail? Do they sell more tickets then seats? How do they get away with this? Maybe they are selling you the passage to your destination but not a seat....???

Whitewinged · 21-11-2015 12:20PM

sup_dude wrote: »

If you read the thread, those who do had it drilled into them by their parents. They're essentially just doing something because they were told to, not because it makes sense to.

I've never seen it either.

To some people it is not pointless though.

Some of our male friends greet me with a kiss and a hug. They don't kiss and hug my husband. They do this just because I am a woman. You could say this is pointless gesture but it's just their way of showing a warm greeting. They are happy to see me and I am grateful for the kind gesture. It's just how we interact. It's not something we think about or analyse or anything.

It's the same for the bus seat. Some people just see it as a nice thing to do as with holding the door open for someone. If a man offers me his seat, I probably won't accept but I just see it as a kind gesture and nothing more. I would usually think that it was nice of him to take the time to offer.

Nobody really needs to have a problem with it because if you don't agree, you just don't offer/accept the seat.

whatismyname · 21-11-2015 12:22PM

Rabo Karabekian wrote: »

And if you're offering people over 45 a seat based on age, I guarantee this won't work out well for you.

Even more odd is the 'offering someone a seat based on them being mentally ill'.

The vast majority of the time it's not possible to tell someone is mentally ill from looking at them.

I have what is described medically as a 'severe and enduring mental illness' and people could almost never tell I'm mentally unwell without telling them*. So I'm not sure now if this means I'm now supposed to walk up to people on a full bus or train and tell them I'm mentally ill and ask to take their seat (even more perplexing since what I experience in my head usually has no major impact on my ability to stand in such a situation).

* Same applies to pretty much all of the many people I know with a mental illness, and I work in mental health also so I'd definitely love to understand more on this one

BabysCoffee · 21-11-2015 12:23PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'd have no problem putting my child on my lap even before someone asked would I do so if I saw them in need of a seat, but if someone were to rock up to me and demand that I put my child on my lap or demand to see his ticket, I'd be telling them to go talk to the bus driver.

I'd prefer if you were just a bit sound and had your kid on your lap so anyone could sit down if they so wished. It's nice to be considerate of other people on the bus.

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2015 12:26PM

amdublin wrote: »

Why are you so against following the terms of carriage?

If you paid for 5 stops for yourself would you stay on for 10?
Why is this one rule for your child causing you so much problems?

Just put your child on your lap. They are not entitled to a seat. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

Is this the example you want to set for your child "Now mary, don't ever bother following rules/buying correct tickets on the bus just do what you want and fk anybody who wants you do the right thing".

Nope, nothing like that at all. I think you're reading far too much into it there tbh. It's the fact that you think I should have to do it because you demand that I do it, is why I'd make you go get your little rule book or whatever. If you're trying to make my life difficult, I'll treat you with the same contempt.

It doesn't cause me any problems at all to have manners and consideration and respect for other people. Seems to cause you quite a bit of difficulty though - you're a healthy, able-bodied woman who wouldn't want a man to give up his seat for you, but you'd demand that a child stand instead because they haven't paid for a ticket so have no right to seat on the bus?

I'd be laughing at you on the inside tbh, but it's not something I'd be teaching my child to do as that would be setting a bad example, IMO of course.

zeffabelli · 21-11-2015 12:26PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

Aw, sorry to hear this. If I was travelling on this train with my husband, one of us would have offered you a seat that you could have sat on with your young 'un on your lap.

Did you complain to Irish Rail? Do they sell more tickets then seats? How do they get away with this? Maybe they are selling you the passage to your destination but not a seat....???

I don't know what they do. You know how they have this reserve system they don't enforce and there's no extra staff on board to help you out?

There were non English speakers in our seats and I had my toddler, a buggy and luggage because I was going to or from the airport and I just couldn't negotiate with them because they didn't have the language so we ended up sitting on our luggage by the toilets for three hours.

I just don't travel Irish rail any more. Those tickets are expensive, I paid for two and this was the treatment we got.

I know myself I would have offered someone else in my position a seat, but everybody is not me. They probably paid alot for their tickets too and and no one wants to or should stand at those prices.

ThinkProgress · 21-11-2015 12:28PM

anewme wrote: »

I've just celebrated my 46th birthday last week. Now I must apply for my hidden hearing aid and Zimmer frame.

But if a man offered you their seat, its not part of some agenda to oppress women and paint you as a weak helpless woman...

It's a slippery slope in society. Some people think it's just about the seat... It's more complex than that.

If we lived in a society where everyone was thrown to the wolves, without any consideration given for differences... Just let the strongest survive.... The brutal truth is that most women would struggle in that environment.

And I'm not just talking about physical differences here. Men are often a lot more harsh and aggressive and insensitive to each other than they are to women. (Because most men can handle it - and even expect it)

If we suddenly started treating everybody exactly the same, regardless differences... It would be a very ugly harsh world.

Beware what you wish for... I think some women could benefit from witnessing the harsh realities of how some men treat each other when there's no women around. lol (it would be a massive eye opener)

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 12:29PM

Whitewinged wrote:

To some people it is not pointless though.

But my point is that to me it is, and that is the reason I get annoyed. What you quoted is in a conversation discussing why disagreeing with with men getting up for woman doesn't make you a crazy feminazi. I don't go getting angry at the person, I would always politely refuse if the situation arose (which is hasn't suggesting that those who believe it is basic manners don't actually carry it out very often). I would be annoyed at society for continuing to drill in useless actions that just stink of mindlessness. To me, it would be no different to insisting that people with a freckle on their left cheek should sit. Yet one is accepted (and almost hysterically defended), and the other would be ridiculed. Both are completely pointless.

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 12:32PM

ThinkProgress wrote:

If we suddenly started treating everybody exactly the same, regardless differences... It would be a very ugly harsh world.

But as I said earlier, this argument makes absolutely no sense in this thread. There is no difference between men and women with regard to their ability to stand or sit.

BabysCoffee · 21-11-2015 12:33PM

zeffabelli wrote: »

I don't know what they do. You know how they have this reserve system they don't enforce and there's no extra staff on board to help you out?

There were non English speakers in our seats and I had my toddler, a buggy and luggage because I was going to or from the airport and I just couldn't negotiate with them because they didn't have the language so we ended up sitting on our luggage by the toilets for three hours.

I just don't travel Irish rail any more. Those tickets are expensive, I paid for two and this was the treatment we got.

I know myself I would have offered someone else in my position a seat, but everybody is not me. They probably paid alot for their tickets too and and no one wants to or should stand at those prices.

All sounds so messed up

But I am glad to hear that you had the buggy with you - I hope you had the space to have the toddler in it.

Whitewinged · 21-11-2015 12:34PM

sup_dude wrote: »

But my point is that to me it is, and that is the reason I get annoyed. What you quoted is in a conversation discussing why disagreeing with with men getting up for woman doesn't make you a crazy feminazi. I don't go getting angry at the person, I would always politely refuse if the situation arose (which is hasn't suggesting that those who believe it is basic manners don't actually carry it out very often). I would be annoyed at society for continuing to drill in useless actions that just stink of mindlessness. To me, it would be no different to insisting that people with a freckle on their left cheek should sit. Yet one is accepted (and almost hysterically defended), and the other would be ridiculed. Both are completely pointless.

You feel it's pointless and other people enjoy those small interactions. There is no issue in that.

One eyed Jack · 21-11-2015 12:35PM

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I'd prefer if you were just a bit sound and had your kid on your lap so anyone could sit down if they so wished. It's nice to be considerate of other people on the bus.

For sure, I'd be sound about it, of course, but demanding to see a child's ticket? You say it's nice to be considerate of other people on the bus, are children not people too just as worthy of your consideration?

I'd offer if I saw you standing, I'd have no problem if you asked, that's just manners and treating people with respect and civility, but if you were to demand anything of me or a child, I'd make you work for it. It's not just because they're my child, I'd feel the same about any healthy, able-bodied adult who demanded that a child give up a seat so they could sit down. I've never experienced it as most adults have more cop-on.

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 12:38PM

Whitewinged wrote:

You feel it's pointless and other people enjoy those small interactions. There is no issue in that.

I think, with all due respect, the point of that post you quoted went completely over you head.

zeffabelli · 21-11-2015 12:43PM

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But if a man offered you their seat, its not part of some agenda to oppress women and paint you as a weak helpless woman...

It's a slippery slope in society. Some people think it's just about the seat... It's more complex than that.

If we lived in a society where everyone was thrown to the wolves, without any consideration given for differences... Just let the strongest survive.... The brutal truth is that most women would struggle in that environment.

And I'm not just talking about physical differences here. Men are often a lot more harsh and aggressive and insensitive to each other than they are to women. (Because most men can handle it - and even expect it)

If we suddenly started treating everybody exactly the same, regardless differences... It would be a very ugly harsh world.

Beware what you wish for... I think some women could benefit from witnessing the harsh realities of how some men treat each other when there's no women around. lol (it would be a massive eye opener)

This is very very true. I don't think most women have any idea how boys and men can treat each other.... Because they/we are protected from seeing that.

And like it not, whatever people say, especially as the link closes from stranger to friend to lover to spouse.... These codes are read...they matter more..does he help with the luggage...does she present well in front of peers....is she a potty mouthed harpee...who doesn't shave her legs...

A fool thinks these things don't matter...

Canterelle · 21-11-2015 12:43PM

sup_dude wrote: »

This post just furthers the concept that those who believe men should stand up for women are being far more hysterical on the whole than those who believe they shouldn't.

Huh? I don't believe men should give up their seats for women. Actually try and find one poster here that does. The point is that to get offended by it and start bringing in gender equality IS hysterical.

BabysCoffee · 21-11-2015 12:45PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

For sure, I'd be sound about it, of course, but demanding to see a child's ticket? You say it's nice to be considerate of other people on the bus, are children not people too just as worthy of your consideration?

I'd offer if I saw you standing, I'd have no problem if you asked, that's just manners and treating people with respect and civility, but if you were to demand anything of me or a child, I'd make you work for it. It's not just because they're my child, I'd feel the same about any healthy, able-bodied adult who demanded that a child give up a seat so they could sit down. I've never experienced it as most adults have more cop-on.

You don't appear to be sound about taking your child on your lap. Just do it when you get on the bus like anybody else would do.

You are making a non issue an issue.

Child on lap = You get a seat. Your child gets a seat on your lap. And someone else gets a seat. Happiness all round.

Making others ask you to take your child on to your lap is not sound (you'd make them "work for it"????!!!!)......it's kind of clueless. No need for selfishness, let's just be kind to others.

Whitewinged · 21-11-2015 12:47PM

sup_dude wrote: »

I think, with all due respect, the point of that post you quoted went completely over you head.

No I have seen all your posts. I quoted that one but your main point that I am talking about is that you said that you feel it is that it is a pointless gesture.

It's your opinion though and not everyone shares that.

If you see it as pointless then don't worry about what other people find as small enjoyable interactions as that really would be pointless.

Ave Sodalis · 21-11-2015 12:49PM

zeffabelli wrote:

A fool thinks these things don't matter...

Thus far I'm a feminazi and fool according to you...

Canterelle wrote:

Huh? I don't believe men should give up their seats for women. Actually try and find one poster here that does. The point is that to get offended by it and start bringing in gender equality IS hysterical.

There's plenty? Have you not read the thread? Is there not ample posters saying about how they always taught that it is manners to stand for women?

Why should a man offer a seat to a woman on train/bus?

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