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Why should a man offer a seat to a woman on train/bus?

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Comments

  • #242
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    Candie wrote: »
    I just realised I'm a horrible sexist person. I make pots of tea in the office and I always say I'll be 'mother' (I'm English) and pour it for everyone. I thought I was being nice, but I suppose this is no defence.

    I've just realised that I've been infantalising the men in the office, that I'm implying they can't pour their own tea, that I'm reinforcing traditional outdated gender roles and relegating myself to a menial service role. In future I'm throwing them a teabag and leaving them to fend for themselves.

    It's the egalitarian thing to do.

    Here, here sister.

    I do the same thing! What are we like?! I'll be throwing them a wet teabag, that'll learn them.


  • #243
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    katydid wrote: »
    You don't have to carry on doing something just because you were raised to do it. The type of man who, in this day and age, offers a perfectly healthy woman a seat is being patronising. So maybe you need to reconsider the kind of man you think it's worth being.

    Thats only your opinion. I think it's a random act of kindness and the world needs more of them, not less. I've carried an older colleagues books to his car, though I know he's able to himself. He appreciates the gesture and the chat on the way. Consideration is a social skill.

    You can politely decline a kind offer, you're not compelled to take them up on it. That's what I usually do, but I make a point of being appreciative.


  • #244
    myshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    I'd always give the seat to a lady, a kid, or an older person /anyone who might favour it or need it.

    I suppose just don't mind standing. Never thought it through in 'equality' terms. Maybe a bit over the top? Equality agenda gone mad?


  • #245
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Candie wrote: »
    Thats only your opinion. I think it's a random act of kindness and the world needs more of them, not less. I've carried an older colleagues books to his car, though I know he's able to himself. He appreciates the gesture and the chat on the way. Consideration is a social skill.

    You can politely decline a kind offer, you're not compelled to take them up on it. That's what I usually do, but I make a point of being appreciative.

    No, it's not just my opinion. If you base your act on gender instead of need or randomness, you're being patronising. A woman doesn't automatically need to be given a seat.

    If you want to do random acts of kindness, do it as the mood takes you, for men or women.


  • #246
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    myshirt wrote: »
    I'd always give the seat to a lady, a kid, or an older person /anyone who might favour it or need it.

    I suppose, just don't mind standing. Never thought it through in 'equality' terms. Maybe a bit over the top? Equality agenda gone mad?
    Why would a "lady" or a kid need it more than you?


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  • #247
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If you base your act on gender instead of need or randomness, you're being patronising

    Do you not think that a well intentioned act of consideration is the wrong thing to get upset about?

    I've no idea if the person offering me a seat is doing so just because I'm female, maybe they think I look tired or my bag is heavy. In order to see it as you do, I have to make assumptions, ones that might be wrong. So I'll choose to see it as a random act of kindness that I'm free to decline, not some act of oppression designed to make me feel lesser.


  • #248
    Buona Fortuna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Buona Fortuna


    Azalea wrote: »
    I THINK they mean in self defence (the hitting part).

    I think...

    You would hope so.


  • #249
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    If men and women were created exactly equal, then inequalities wouldn't exist in the first place. Many feminists think they don't need any assistance from us men to make this world a more gender equal environment.

    But this is just deluded thinking. If men didn't concede some ground (by their own volition), then equality would not be possible.

    Ok, perhaps some men go too far sometimes. But they still don't deserve to be heavily criticized for it.

    Gender equality does not mean that men and women are identical creatures. Or that we should even be striving for that end goal.

    It seems to me that some people are living in denial. And if you do or say anything that suggests men and women might have some subtle differences... well you get the angry bitter reactions.

    I can treat women fairly in this world, without treating them like they're identical to men. Getting hugely offended because some well-intentioned person does something that slightly recognizes the subtle differences between men and women... that's just crazy and deluded behavior.

    Women and men are not identical. In certain cases, lifting heavy weights, for example, it makes sense for a man to offer assistance to a woman. But standing on a bus, unless the person is clearly in need of assistance, it makes no sense to offer someone a seat simply because they are female.


  • #250
    myshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    katydid wrote: »
    Why would a "lady" or a kid need it more than you?

    I say 'need' in respect of the people not able to stand for a bus journey, or who would have a better time sitting down. So an older person, a child with small legs who does twice the walking, a pregnant lady or so on.

    The rest of people I just ask politely if they'd like the seat. I hope they don't take it as patronising. Christ, I must rethink. Never hit me that the equality agenda stretched this far. I'd just do it and think no more about it. Don't want a high five or anything. My god lads, this thread is mad.


  • #251
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    Candie wrote: »
    Do you not think that a well intentioned act of consideration is the wrong thing to get upset about?

    I've no idea if the person offering me a seat is doing so just because I'm female, maybe they think I look tired or my bag is heavy. In order to see it as you do, I have to make assumptions, ones that might be wrong. So I'll choose to see it as a random act of kindness that I'm free to decline, not some act of oppression designed to make me feel lesser.

    An act can be well intentioned but wrongly judged.

    The question is if a man would offer another man who looked tired a seat...


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  • #252
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Folks, don't forget to tune in next week for AH's special hot thread topic of the week:

    "Women: Allow them access to lifeboats before men? Or should they really just man-up and drown!".


  • #253
    ThinkProgress
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭ThinkProgress


    katydid wrote: »
    There is no reason for an able bodied man to offer an able bodiedwoman a seat. Why would they?

    I was taking a bus to college one morning and it was pouring rain. There was a young girl who we'd normally see when waiting at the bus stop... this particular morning she was late, so she had to run (in the rain) to the next stop.

    When she got on the bus, she was drowned. She was standing in the aisle freezing cold and there was no seats... a middle-aged man who she was standing next to her offered his seat and she accepted.

    She looked really relieved too.

    Would that same man have offered his seat to a strong healthy male in the same situation? Perhaps... (Imo most guys wouldn't - I know I wouldn't)

    She was much younger than him and very fit/healthy. Was he acting sexist? Or just being a decent human being?

    Was he trying to make her look weak and feeble? I don't think so. And I don't think it did anything to damage the image of any other females on that bus either!


  • #254
    myshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    I also believe that if a woman can give a punch, she can take one. Let's get it all out in the open here.


  • #255
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    myshirt wrote: »
    I say 'need' in respect of the people not able to stand for a bus journey, or who would have a better time sitting down. So an older person, a child with small legs who does twice the walking, a pregnant lady or so on.

    The rest of people I just ask politely if they'd like the seat. I hope they don't take it as patronising. Christ, I must rethink. Never hit me that the equality agenda stretched this far. I'd just do it and think no more about it. Don't want a high five or anything. My god lads, this thread is mad.

    Why would a child with small legs need to sit on a bus? They're not walking. They're standing.

    It's not an "equality agenda". It's just a fact of life that men and women are equal, and able bodied women don't require or wish special treatment. Save it for those that need it...


  • #256
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,495 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    katydid wrote: »
    Women and men are not identical. In certain cases, lifting heavy weights, for example, it makes sense for a man to offer assistance to a woman. But standing on a bus, unless the person is clearly in need of assistance, it makes no sense to offer someone a seat simply because they are female.

    Jesus...you're over analysing this. If someone does something nice like offer a seat they're doing just that..being nice. I personally don't do it on buses but if out with group of friends will always offer my seat in pub to one of the girls if there aren't enough. They must think I am a bigger arsehole than usual.

    As for Candie's earlier post about making tea...disgusting behaviour excluding people like me who only drink coffee


  • #257
    katydid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,351 ✭✭✭katydid


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    I was taking a bus to college one morning and it was pouring rain. There was a young girl who we'd normally see when waiting at the bus stop... this particular morning she was late, so she had to run (in the rain) to the next stop.

    When she got on the bus, she was drowned. She was standing in the aisle freezing cold and there was no seats... a middle-aged man who she was standing next to her offered his seat and she accepted.

    She looked really relieved too.

    Would that same man have offered his seat to a strong healthy male in the same situation? Perhaps... (Imo most guys wouldn't - I know I wouldn't)

    She was much younger than him and very fit/healthy. Was he acting sexist? Or just being a decent human being?

    Was he trying to make her look weak and feeble? I don't think so. And I don't think it did anything to damage the image of any other females on that bus either!
    He may not have been trying to patronise her, but he was. I'm sure she wasn't the only cold, wet person standing.


  • #258
    Canterelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭Canterelle


    myshirt wrote: »
    I also believe that if a woman can give a punch, she can take one. Let's get it all out in the open here.

    Yup it's at that stage...


  • #259
    Buona Fortuna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Buona Fortuna


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Folks, don't forget to tune in next week for AH's special hot thread topic of the week:

    "Women: Allow them access to lifeboats before men? Or should they really just man-up and drown!".

    Now you're talking. The good old Birkenhead drill.



  • #260
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,495 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    Canterelle wrote: »
    Yup it's at that stage...

    Well it took me about a decade to realise it but the fact this thread has 260 posts proves we'll argue about anything in here


  • #261
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    discus wrote: »
    Why though? Apparently women and men are similar. Apparently we all have the same capabilities.... eg - Female soldiers get paid the same, for the "same" work (but easier fitness tests). Let them skip a queue? Is their time more valuable than yours?



    Women don't see you as an equal, even though you see them as an equal. They see the likes of you as an easy opportunity to make their life easier. Males like you are a pushover.

    It seems that feminism means "bending over backwards for women" to you, and they no doubt love you for it ;)


    I dunno, its one of those bred into me pretty much growing up. Never hit a girl. Always say please and thank you, always let a woman sit down first, etc. My parents were old school so to speak, so maybe thats it.


    I also have 13 sisters, so I have nothing but the highest respect for women and their abilities/achievements/just in general.


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  • #262
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    always let a woman sit down first


    This is actually something else that would annoy me. Again because I would find it a stupid and pointless waste of time and energy. Same with standing up if a woman enters the room.


  • #263
    Fat Christy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,866 ✭✭✭Fat Christy


    I, personally, wouldn't offer my seat to either an able bodied man or woman but at the same time, I wouldn't get irked if a man offered me a seat.

    I used to work in an office with all male managers and one female manager. The female manager made a point of never making coffee for anyway because she was a manager and the only female manager. The girls who worked under her were below her and her fellow managers were men, so she wasn't making coffee for them either. It was a real dominance thing with her. I just thought it was simply bizarre. Where I work now we all make tea and coffee for each other, regardless of gender or status. It's a nice thing to do, there's nothing better than getting a cup of tea handed to you and that's the way I was brought up. It's not all one sided either, if you make people tea or coffee they will return the favour.

    I'm an awful ol' one. I'd be leaving dinner and cakes and making tea for everyone in my house. My housemates had 2 girls home one night. The following morning I was making tea for everyone and one of the girls told me 'oh he can make his own tea, you shouldn't be running after him'. Sorry what?! I find for all the nice things you do, it's returned 10 times over. My housemates cleaned the entire house for me when I was having people over. They gave me tablets and brought me bucket loads of tea when I was sick. The same with the people in the office I do favours for, they're returned ten fold! And my friends, the amount of times when I ended up down sh*t street and they've been there for me. It's not a gender thing, it's just being a nice person.

    Don't be a dick to people in the name of equality. If you don't appreciate the gesture, just politely decline, there's no need to get offended and there's no need to be an ass. And hold the door people, hold the fecking door open!


  • #264
    myshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    I dunno, its one of those bred into me pretty much growing up. Never hit a girl. Always say please and thank you, always let a woman sit down first, etc. My parents were old school so to speak, so maybe thats it.


    I also have 13 sisters, so I have nothing but the highest respect for women and their abilities/achievements/just in general.

    Christ. 13 sisters? I'd say hand me downs were interesting in your house if you were the youngest. I thought I had it bad with 4 sisters and hard economic times.


  • #265
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fat Christy wrote: »
    I, personally, wouldn't offer my seat to either an able bodied man or woman but at the same time, I wouldn't get irked if a man offered me a seat.

    I used to work in an office with all male managers and one female manager. The female manager made a point of never making coffee for anyway because she was a manager and the only female manager. The girls who worked under her were below her and her fellow managers were men, so she wasn't making coffee for them either. It was a real dominance thing with her. I just thought it was simply bizarre. Where I work now we all make tea and coffee for each other, regardless of gender or status. It's a nice thing to do, there's nothing better than getting a cup of tea handed to you and that's the way I was brought up. It's not all one sided either, if you make people tea or coffee they will return the favour.

    I'm an awful ol' one. I'd be leaving dinner and cakes and making tea for everyone in my house. My housemates had 2 girls home one night. The following morning I was making tea for everyone and one of the girls told me 'oh he can make his own tea, you shouldn't be running after him'. Sorry what?! I find for all the nice things you do, it's returned 10 times over. My housemates cleaned the entire house for me when I was having people over. They gave me tablets and brought me bucket loads of tea when I was sick. The same with the people in the office I do favours for, they're returned ten fold! And my friends, the amount of times when I ended up down sh*t street and they've been there for me. It's not a gender thing, it's just being a nice person.

    Don't be a dick to people in the name of equality. If you don't appreciate the gesture, just politely decline, there's no need to get offended and there's no need to be an ass. And hold the door people, hold the fecking door open!


    Hear, hear. When someone does something nice for you, you pay it forward. You get out what you put in, as far as kindness or consideration is concerned.

    The world is a nicer place when you choose to see it as a nice place and not some minefield of unpleasant subtexts.


  • #266
    sunshine and showers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭sunshine and showers


    myshirt wrote: »
    I also believe that if a woman can give a punch, she can take one. Let's get it all out in the open here.

    I'd be more inclined to believe that there should be no punching, tbh.


  • #267
    Canterelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 176 ✭✭Canterelle


    sunshine and showers wrote: »
    I'd be more inclined to believe that there should be no punching, tbh.

    Think s/he was being sarcastic/funny tbh


  • #268
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,118 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    amdublin wrote: »
    Everytime I see a seat that is vacated on a bus/train and a man taking it and leaving a woman standing it irks me. Or not offering it to the woman and just sitting it irks me.

    This morning that happened amd something clicked with me. Why am I irked? I want equality in every other male/female scenario so why not this???

    Does anyone else feel this way or have any thoughts on this?? On why men should or shouldn't offer seat ton women




    Ps. It also annoys me when parents have a toddler on a seat and leaving an adult standing - it's in the terms and conditions of carriage that they are free so you should put them on your lap.
    Also with older children I think it is a good thing to teach civic duty to a child and have them stand and offer an adult a seat.


    For me it's nothing to do with 'equality', it's just basic manners that I offer up my seat to someone whom I feel needs it more than I do. It's not because I feel I'm obligated to, but because I want to.

    Seriously, overthinking this stuff will hurt your brain.


  • #269
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    For the purpose of this thread, what is feminism?

    The word has been thrown around on this thread like a hooker's knickers and yet there has been no clear definition of it, even within the context of the sentence it's in. I'm starting to think (okay, I lie. I've thought this for a while) that people just like using the word in order to undermine an argument without actually presenting an argument. It's like a buzzword that has no real meaning, or has lost it's meaning.


  • #270
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,495 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    I've decided that the next time I give up my seat in the bus it's going to be somebody really smelly. That way I'll look like I am doing a good deed while my true agenda of inflicting bad smells on the person sitting on the inside shall remain secret


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  • #271
    Azalea
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,796 ✭✭✭Azalea


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    For me it's nothing to do with 'equality', it's just basic mammers that I offer up my seat to someone whom I feel needs it more than I do. It's not because I feel I'm obligated to, but because I want to.

    Seriously, overthinking this stuff will hurt your brain.
    "Mammers" - Freudian slip? :pac:

    The OP doesn't mean the offering of your seat in general though, she means specifically the offering of your seat to a woman just because she is a woman. The OP said she secretly got really annoyed that a seat wasn't offered to her based on her femaleness, and then it occurred to her that there's no real reason for this gesture, as healthy, able-bodied, non pregnant, non elderly women don't need someone else's seat, so she's wondering why she got so annoyed? Bit of self reflection in the form of thread.


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