Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

opiniated · 20-11-2015 01:05PM

long range shooter wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnMSCPHxLNA

That video is horrifying - although I note the speaker didn't ask how many of the audience would participate in stoning. It does, however, pose some questions about how "moderate" Sunni moslems are, and whether a larger audience, or a different audience, would have given the same response.

However, in answer to his "Now, what they gonna do?", I would answer

"They're gonna try you for murder, and apply the maximum sentence, according to the laws of the Country, because that is a particularly barbaric, disgusting, form of murder".

Peist2007 · 20-11-2015 01:15PM

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Media wise, this is true. The very first thing the news channels look for is how many westerners are staying at said hotel.

People can say that they don't follow the likes of Sky News etc, but people can only absorb the news and information they are fed and that feed is controlled by Media organisations.

Sky news last night, presenter said it seemed the wanted terrorist on the run "bottled it" during the Paris attack and didn't go through with it. What the hell kind of a thing is that to say?

A lot of the post-Paris reaction has been really unhelpful. Look at that gimp john Kerry yesterday talking about how the US had taken out Al Quaeda eventually and was confident of taking out ISIS even faster. It's almost as if they want more attacks when you see them fanning the flames like that. Now a would-be bomber who doesnt go through with it "bottles it". You couldnt make it up. Will have to have a read of 1984 again

Orangebrigade · 20-11-2015 01:16PM

bajer101 wrote: »

Bombing them won't make any difference. While part of me thinks that there is an argument to be made for nuking Raqqa and all the the other Daesh strongholds and accepting the civilian casualties (as in Hiroshima and Nagasaki), that won't work here. There are 1.4 billion Muslims on this planet and they are spread out. Contrary to what our leftist friends would have us believe, these lads are just rearing to go. Nuke Raqqa and that will just radicaise them quicker.

Most of the Islamist apolgists I have encountered here haven't a notion. They haven't studied the Quran. They are typical idealists. Their severed heads would be sitting on their chests before they even copped on that the people who did it were the people they were defending.

Most of the liberals I know who have a serious problem with Islam are the ones who have studied it. None of the apologists on these threads have studied Islam. None!

Where are the rigorous Islam scholars? Why don't they dip in to these threads to correct us? They don't give a fúck about us. They are too busy arguing about whether Muhammed said we should be accommodated, killed, or taxed. The likes of this thread is of no interest to them. We're kafir - they don't give a toss about us.

I agree. I know it isn't every Muslim, we know that. It is still an issue within that religion.

Many people don't understand the origins of Islam and how it was founded and spread.

jobbridge4life · 20-11-2015 01:25PM

THe foundations of Islam and even the actual religious texts are not that relevant. The spread of the particularly noxious interpretation of Islam known as Wahhabism funded by the Saudi's is a component in the increasingly fundamentalist approach taken by some Moslems.

And to avoid confusion I am not suggesting that this is the only cause/source of problems/terrorism. It is a component though.

Red King · 20-11-2015 01:26PM

DubVelo wrote: »

Do you remember the Russians shooting down a plane full of 298 innocent mostly Europeans over Ukraine?

No the Russians didn't do anything of the sort as per the investigative report.

It was a Russian made Buk missile, which is in the Ukrainian arsenal and possibly separatists hands, fired from rebel territory in eastern Ukraine.

No group has been found responsible, but the most likely culprits are Ukrainian separatists.

jobbridge4life · 20-11-2015 01:28PM

Red King wrote: »

No the Russians didn't do anything of the sort as per the investigative report.

It was a Russian made Buk missile, which is in the Ukrainian arsenal and possibly separatists hands, fired from rebel territory in eastern Ukraine.

No group has been found responsible, but the most likely culprits are Ukrainian separatists.

Who wouldn't exist if it weren't for their great benefactor the New-Tsar of Russia Putin.

Oryx · 20-11-2015 01:28PM

Apologies if this has been dealt with before in the thread, and I am not posting this to start some kind of conspiracy theory can of worms, I'm genuinely curious.

Any concert I've ever been to in the last half dozen years has been a sea of mobile phones in the crowd. We cant go to anything without filming it for facebook. Yet in the Bataclan, just one video has hit youtube, as far as I can see. No footage at all during the attack apart from outside the building. Is there a blackout on this footage because of the graphic nature of it? (Trust me, I'm not a ghoul, and I don't want to see stuff like that, but it just strikes me as odd that none has leaked and I wondered how the powers that be have managed to control the flow of stuff like that to social media). Or maybe it is out there, and as Ive not been looking for it, I havent come across it?

DubVelo · 20-11-2015 01:33PM

TommyKnocker wrote: »

Is it though? Dylan Thomas who Killed those black people in a church in South Carolina was not charged with terrorism. If however it had of been Mohammed in a christian church, he most likely would have been charged with Terrorism. Any act of aggression by Arabs or followers of Islam and the perpetrators are instantly branded as "Terrorists". this is not the case when the perpetrators are "white" and the victims of color.

I think you are imagining things.
As an example the link I posted up about a Brit muslim being attacked for converting to christianity - religious hate crime, not terrorism, which is what your above example would be charged as.
And apparently it was debated whether he should be charged with terrorism or not. Presumably he wasn't because his actions weren't a plot as part of a broader subversive organisation or movement.

Paramite Pie · 20-11-2015 01:45PM

Weatherproof79 wrote: »

Hits closer to home because you value their lives more. No foam here just hard facts

I'm sure Nigerians and Ugandans find the Mali attacks hit closer to home because of cultural similarities & knowing people from these places. If I had been to Syria (I had planned a trip around Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon & Syria a few years back before things broke out) it would've hit harder.

I knew someone who was teaching English in Aleppo and it seemed like a fun party city. I don't think the world realises what it lost with the destruction of such an ancient & cultural city. With all the attacks in the Middle East I think we're numbed to it somewhat -- it's expected.

I'm sure the world media focused more on IRA bombings in London than in Belfast. And when Dublin was bombed it probably didn't surprise the world as much, the borders and situations weren't well understood by many.

Duggy747 · 20-11-2015 01:49PM

Oryx wrote: »

Apologies if this has been dealt with before in the thread, and I am not posting this to start some kind of conspiracy theory can of worms, I'm genuinely curious.

Any concert I've ever been to in the last half dozen years has been a sea of mobile phones in the crowd. We cant go to anything without filming it for facebook. Yet in the Bataclan, just one video has hit youtube, as far as I can see. No footage at all during the attack apart from outside the building. Is there a blackout on this footage because of the graphic nature of it? (Trust me, I'm not a ghoul, and I don't want to see stuff like that, but it just strikes me as odd that none has leaked and I wondered how the powers that be have managed to control the flow of stuff like that to social media). Or maybe it is out there, and as Ive not been looking for it, I havent come across it?

If I was inside the Bataclan, the absolute last thing I'd be doing during the shooting would be recording with my phone. There's more than likely CCTV footage of the entire siege but that'll never be released, unless leaked or they show snapshots of the shooters. There's a video a girl put up on Periscope with some footage from the concert before the shootings.

There has been other videos from outside, one in particular is a guy walking around the front entrance after just escaping where there were dead bodies along the path and a guy moaning and crying in pain. It's a grim video as you can also hear people screaming inside after every shot and explosion.

Orangebrigade · 20-11-2015 01:51PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

THe foundations of Islam and even the actual religious texts are not that relevant. The spread of the particularly noxious interpretation of Islam known as Wahhabism funded by the Saudi's is a component in the increasingly fundamentalist approach taken by some Moslems.

And to avoid confusion I am not suggesting that this is the only cause/source of problems/terrorism. It is a component though.

Although I do not like people making soft excuses for these Islamist terrorists, I do think the likes of Bush and Blair should be arrested just for the Iraq war. They had no right to launch that war as what they said was just a pack of lies.

They knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction.

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2015 01:55PM

Hollande might be declaring 'war' on Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL but apparently it;s still tickitty boo to sell arms to the Saudi's http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/francois-hollandes-war-with-isis-wont-stand-in-the-way-of-frances-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia-a6738546.html.

K - so if I am up to speed the narrative is refugees must be prevented from entering Europe as some of them might be refugees but it's ok to sell weapons to the promulgators of Wahabi Islam and known source of funding for Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL because...

Why because?

Suggestions?

kunst nugget · 20-11-2015 01:57PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hollande might be declaring 'war' on Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL but apparently it;s still tickitty boo to sell arms to the Saudi's http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/francois-hollandes-war-with-isis-wont-stand-in-the-way-of-frances-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia-a6738546.html.

K - so if I am up to speed the narrative is refugees must be prevented from entering Europe as some of them might be refugees but it's ok to sell weapons to the promulgators of Wahabi Islam and known source of funding for Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL because...

Why because?

Suggestions?

Because it looks bad to blow up three people and a goat but if you blow up three people with a rocket launcher and a goat, you'll be grand…

the evasion_kid · 20-11-2015 02:04PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hollande might be declaring 'war' on Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL but apparently it;s still tickitty boo to sell arms to the Saudi's http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/francois-hollandes-war-with-isis-wont-stand-in-the-way-of-frances-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia-a6738546.html.

K - so if I am up to speed the narrative is refugees must be prevented from entering Europe as some of them might be refugees but it's ok to sell weapons to the promulgators of Wahabi Islam and known source of funding for Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL because...

Why because?

Suggestions?

Some government's need to get their priorities right..... Not looking at america at all on this one

conorhal · 20-11-2015 02:05PM

Nodin wrote: »

You're telling that to the wrong fella.

....if that's the case then why isn't France, with its very large muslim population, a war zone 365 days a year?

Ho hum, the tiny minority of lone wolves are at it again.....

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/africa/mali-hostage-siege-at-least-three-hostages-killed-80-freed-in-ongoing-mali-hotel-siege-34218798.html

20-11-2015 02:14PM

Good ol' BBC News about yer one who blew herself up asking if money or drugs were involved in her radicalisation. :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe · 20-11-2015 02:15PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Good ol' BBC News about yer one who blew herself up asking if money or drugs were involved in her radicalisation. :rolleyes:

Obviously it was 'video games' !

m@cc@ · 20-11-2015 02:16PM

jobbridge4life wrote: »

THe foundations of Islam and even the actual religious texts are not that relevant. The spread of the particularly noxious interpretation of Islam known as Wahhabism funded by the Saudi's is a component in the increasingly fundamentalist approach taken by some Moslems.

And to avoid confusion I am not suggesting that this is the only cause/source of problems/terrorism. It is a component though.

Thank you. Thought I was on my own there.

There are parts of the Qu'ran that are questionable, I'll give you that. But to pass that as a subtantiantial reason for terrorism is to let these assholes off the hook. Do you blame Basque separatism for ETA? No, you blame ETA for ETA. Do you blame a belief in 'weapons of mass destruction' for the Iraq invasion? No, you blame the invaders. It follows the same lines. These clowns are as much a threat to moderate Muslims as they are to the Western world.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hollande might be declaring 'war' on Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL but apparently it;s still tickitty boo to sell arms to the Saudi's http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/francois-hollandes-war-with-isis-wont-stand-in-the-way-of-frances-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia-a6738546.html.

K - so if I am up to speed the narrative is refugees must be prevented from entering Europe as some of them might be refugees but it's ok to sell weapons to the promulgators of Wahabi Islam and known source of funding for Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL because...

Why because?

Suggestions?

Declaring war on ISIS was reactionary and unnecessary. Islamic State is not actually a state. Why give them the prestige they so clearly crave?

Nodin · 20-11-2015 02:17PM

conorhal wrote: »

Ho hum, the tiny minority of lone wolves are at it again.....

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/africa/mali-hostage-siege-at-least-three-hostages-killed-80-freed-in-ongoing-mali-hotel-siege-34218798.html

...in Mali.

Harry Palmr · 20-11-2015 02:17PM

Andrew Neil in less than two minutes speaks for most of us I think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muuka8KBd7Y

Wurzelbert · 20-11-2015 02:17PM

Orangebrigade wrote: »

[...]I do think the likes of Bush and Blair should be arrested just for the Iraq war. They had no right to launch that war as what they said was just a pack of lies.

They knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction.

not so sure, saddam certainly did have a long history of owning and using wmd…all the rest is politics and media brainwash…

DubVelo · 20-11-2015 02:18PM

Nodin wrote: »

....if that's the case then why isn't France, with its very large muslim population, a war zone 365 days a year?

It is may not be a warzone but it's hardly a blissfully peaceful multicultural utopia:

11-22 March 2012 Shooting 7 5 Toulouse and Montauban shootings, murdering three French paratroopers, a French Rabbi and three French schoolchildren (aged eight, six and three) carried out over a period of 11 days by Mohammed Merah.[1]
23 May 2013 Stabbing 0 1 2013 La Défense attack by an Islamist knifeman against a French soldier in the Paris suburb of La Défense.
20 December 2014 Stabbing 0 3 2014 Tours stabbing attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" attacked a police office in Joué-lès-Tours with a knife. He was killed and 3 police officers were injured.
21 December 2014 Vehicle ramming 0 11 2014 Dijon attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 11 pedestrians with his vehicle.
22 December 2014 Vehicle ramming 1 10 2014 Nantes attack. A man yelling "Allahu Akbar" ran over 10 pedestrians with his vehicle, killing one, then attempted suicide.
7-9 January 2015 Shooting 20 22 January 2015 Île-de-France attacks, a mass shooting at the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo office in Paris, carried out by Saïd and Chérif Kouachi, two Islamist gunmen who identified themselves as belonging to Al-Qaeda in Yemen.[1] During this period, a third Islamist gunmen and close friend of the Kouachi brothers, Amedy Coulibaly was responsible for two shootings and an hostage taking at a Hypercacher kosher market. He said he synchronized his attacks with the Kouachi brothers. Coulibaly had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
3 February 2015 Stabbing 0 3 3 military men, guarding a Jewish community center in Nice, are attacked by Moussa Coulibaly (not related to the January Coulibaly attacks).
19 April 2015 Shooting 1 0 Unsuccessful attack against 2 churches in Villejuif by an Algerian jihadist. He killed a woman probably when trying to steal her car but accidentally shot himself in the leg, putting an end to his plans.[20]
26 June 2015 Beheading 1 2 Saint-Quentin-Fallavier attack. An Islamist delivery driver probably linked to ISIS decapitated a man and rammed a company van into gas cylinders at the Air Products gas factory in an attempt to blow up the building.
21 August 2015 Shooting and stabbing 0 4 2015 Thalys train attack. An attempted mass shooting occurred on a train traveling from Amsterdam to Paris. Four people were injured, including the assailant who was subdued by other passengers.[21]

long range shooter · 20-11-2015 02:21PM

Nodin wrote: »

...in Mali.

yap,thats one more on the list.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015

IvyTheTerrible · 20-11-2015 02:23PM

DubVelo wrote: »

It is may not be a warzone but it's hardly a blissfully peaceful multicultural utopia:

Some of the car rammings were by people who had no terrorist links but had psychiatric issues.
Most of the other ones were masterminded by Omar le Belge, who was killed on Wednesday.

conorhal · 20-11-2015 02:23PM

Nodin wrote: »

...in Mali.

Is that another one of those places that terrorism has nothing to do with the relligion of peace?

Nodin · 20-11-2015 02:24PM

DubVelo wrote: »

It is may not be a warzone .............

...but according to the logic of some here it should be. Why isn't it?

conorhal wrote: »

Is that another one of those places that terrorism has nothing to do with the relligion of peace?

You're going to have to put your back intro it a bit more if you want to shift those goalposts. Why isn't France a warzone? Why isn't Paris like Belfast in the 1970's/80's/90's 365 days a year?

seamus · 20-11-2015 02:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Good ol' BBC News about yer one who blew herself up asking if money or drugs were involved in her radicalisation. :rolleyes:

Didn't watch the BBC thing, but it is surprisingly common to find "reformed" drug or alcohol abusers among the ranks of religious extremists.

seamus · 20-11-2015 02:27PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Hollande might be declaring 'war' on Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL but apparently it;s still tickitty boo to sell arms to the Saudi's http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/francois-hollandes-war-with-isis-wont-stand-in-the-way-of-frances-arms-deals-with-saudi-arabia-a6738546.html.

K - so if I am up to speed the narrative is refugees must be prevented from entering Europe as some of them might be refugees but it's ok to sell weapons to the promulgators of Wahabi Islam and known source of funding for Daesh/ISIS/IS/ISIL because...

Why because?

Suggestions?

Because the Saudis are the good guys. They have loads of oil and they don't try to attack Israel. Don't worry about the human rights abuses, they were bad men anyway.

Plus, the made a pinkie promise that none of those arms would end up in the hands of terrorists. And a pinkie promise is unbreakable.

DubVelo · 20-11-2015 02:34PM

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

Some of the car rammings were by people who had no terrorist links but had psychiatric issues.
Most of the other ones were masterminded by Omar le Belge, who was killed on Wednesday.

The three attacks over three consecutive days running up to Christmas? Yeah, right.

Peist2007 · 20-11-2015 02:39PM

Wurzelbert wrote: »

not so sure, saddam certainly did have a long history of owning and using wmd…all the rest is politics and media brainwash…

They were following the roadmap set out in Project for a New American Century. And still are.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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