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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #5882
    Memnoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Here's the bit I have a problem with. Isis are terrorising Syria and turning it into rubble. It's a war zone.

    Isis launch a terrorist attack in Paris.

    The response seems to be. Hey, you know those refugees that are fleeing from Isis? The people who have been terrorised and killed in their thousands? Let's blame them. Let's turn them away and send them back into Isis's clutches to be tortured, raped and murdered.

    Because, clearly, if there wasn't a refugee crisis, there is literally NO OTHER WAY that determined terrorist nutjobs, most of whom seem to be home grown, would find a way to cause such carnage in Europe.

    Someone said something about sticking of heads in sands, I believe.


  • #5883
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    Sick of hearing about it now. Where was the outcry for the innocent Russians, the bomb in Lebanon and Turkey? There was no silence before games for them or changing our Internet avatars to their flags yet they were all targeted by isis. Isis are scum no doubt and so is valuing a persons life from one country over another. All a bunch of hypocrites

    This line of argument is getting tiring. Paris hits a lot closer to home and it's human nature it gets more attention.

    I've been to Paris, my family has been to Paris, a guy I work with has been to Paris only a weeks before the attacks. I've been in Stade de France. I love football, concerts, I go out for coffee.

    It's not that people don't care about it if it's in Lebanon, it's just that people realise it could so easily be themselves or loved ones when it's somewhere like Paris.


  • #5884
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    Sick of hearing about it now. Where was the outcry for the innocent Russians, the bomb in Lebanon and Turkey? There was no silence before games for them or changing our Internet avatars to their flags yet they were all targeted by isis. Isis are scum no doubt and so is valuing a persons life from one country over another. All a bunch of hypocrites

    Perhaps Data from Star Trek can help you understand ?? :pac:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw1zcxq79i4


  • #5885
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    So you've been to Paris so it should get more attention? You love football? It deserves more attention because you've been there? What utter drivel. I love flying does that mean I should care more about the Russian tragedy? You're simply saying French deaths are worse than Russian Lebanese or Turkish deaths thus proving my point. All killed by the same group but it's worse if it happens to certain groups


  • #5886
    questionmark?
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,085 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Flint Fredstone wrote: »
    This line of argument is getting tiring. Paris hits a lot closer to home and it's human nature it gets more attention.

    I've been to Paris, my family has been to Paris, a guy I work with has been to Paris only a weeks before the attacks. I've been in Stade de France. I love football, concerts, I go out for coffee.

    It's not that people don't care about it if it's in Lebanon, it's just that people realise it could so easily be themselves or loved ones when it's somewhere like Paris.

    Couldn't agree more. So sick of hearing that line of oh why are you mourning France and not others. You summed it up just right in that post.


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  • #5887
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Couldn't agree more. So sick of hearing that line of oh why are you mourning France and not others. You summed it up just right in that post.

    It's the over mourning it's been a week and it's dominating everything and in comparison the others didn't even get a snippet of coverage. Most people didn't even know about Lebanon.

    Of course they deserve respect etc but my point is its been non stop for a week while the others get two seconds of coverage. I didn't see anyone change their avatar to their flags.All premiership games playing the French national anthem this week. It's completely ott. It's just total hypocrisy and more stupidity and double standards the complete definition of the modern horrid world


  • #5888
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    So you've been to Paris so it should get more attention? You love football? It deserves more attention because you've been there? What utter drivel. I love flying does that mean I should care more about the Russian tragedy? You're simply saying French deaths are worse than Russian Lebanese or Turkish deaths thus proving my point. All killed by the same group but it's worse if it happens to certain groups

    No, I didn't say anything of the sort. I said it hits closer to home.

    If it happened in Ireland we would take more notice than France. It's human nature. Try reading posts before replying to them.


  • #5889
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    If it happened in America it would be the same and Turkey and Russia is closer. The hypocrisy continues. And the strawman if it happened in Ireland it would be different lol. Try reading your own posts double standards before advising me

    It hits closer to home in your words its because you value French lives over them. And you said you like your coffee and football line what about flying. Look what happened the Russians


  • #5890
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    If it happened in America it would be the same and Turkey and Russia is closer. The hypocrisy continues. And the strawman if it happened in Ireland it would be different lol. Try reading your own posts double standards before advising me

    It hits closer to home in your words its because you value French lives over them. And you said you like your coffee and football line what about flying. Look what happened the Russians

    Culturally closer, not geographically closer.


  • #5891
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    If it happened in America it would be the same and Turkey and Russia is closer. The hypocrisy continues. And the strawman if it happened in Ireland it would be different lol. Try reading your own posts double standards before advising me

    It hits closer to home in your words its because you value French lives over them. And you said you like your coffee and football line what about flying. Look what happened the Russians

    No double standards from me. If you can still see your screen through the foam just read back carefully and you will see that all I'm saying is it hits closer to home, not that any lives are more important than others.


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  • #5892
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    170 people taken hostage in Mali, Radisson Hotel.

    gunfire and explosions heard on the 7th floor, so i think we can safely say theres another attack under way :(


  • #5893
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    Flint Fredstone wrote: »
    No double standards from me. If you can still see your screen through the foam just read back carefully and you will see that all I'm saying is it hits closer to home, not that any lives are more important than others.

    Hits closer to home because you value their lives more. No foam here just hard facts


  • #5894
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    bajer101 wrote: »
    What? This is a serious conversation for serious people. I'm not there beside you, so could you just slap yourself in the face for me and cop the fúck on.
    Depp wrote: »
    If you're going to resort to trolling you might aswell not bother posting here anymore. Grow up like.

    Ah get over yourselves. You're in After Hours, on Boards.ie, not the U.N. Think-Tank for Multi-Cultural Relations. And to be blunt, you're regurgitating the same stuff over and over and over again in long winded pseudo intellectual posts.
    Don't know if you have noticed but there's no real contender from the other side here so its not much more than a rant thread. You make some good points but I suspect you enjoy reading your own posts far more than anyone else does.


  • #5895
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    Hits closer to home because you value their lives more. No foam here just hard facts

    You don't know me. You have no idea of my values so I'd appreciate if you stopped trotting out that nonsense.


  • #5896
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    Flint Fredstone wrote: »
    You don't know me. You have no idea of my values so I'd appreciate if you stopped trotting out that nonsense.

    Truth hurts


  • #5897
    bilston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,058 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    170 hostages taken in a Radisson hotel in Mali by up to 10 gunmen

    Mali is a former French colony


  • #5898
    StringerBell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,401 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    170 people taken hostage in Mali, Radisson Hotel.

    gunfire and explosions heard on the 7th floor, so i think we can safely say theres another attack under way :(

    From reports there are two attackers, 140 guests, 30 staff.

    I hope this ends quickly and as well as possible for all concerned (barring the attackers, who I do hope get taken alive and don't get the martyr death they crave)

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #5899
    MRnotlob606
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,642 ✭✭✭MRnotlob606


    I am sick to death people telling me on Facebook that people don't care what's going on in Syria. People on their moral pedestal telling me how I view the lives of French people more than Syrians. Totally fallacious and out of context.

    The reason it is broadcast by the media more is because the media is overwhelmingly Western. France is a Western country with Western values so an attack on Western values would be seen also an attack on Irish values. No offence , but bombings are all too frequent in the middle east. Just as mass shootings in the America are. Sure obviously my heart goes out to everybody died in these countries , but I have a more visceral response towards people who died in France due it's proximity to my country and how incongruous it seems that a mass slaughter took place there. The First of it's kind since the Second World War.


  • #5900
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    170 people taken hostage in Mali, Radisson Hotel.

    gunfire and explosions heard on the 7th floor, so i think we can safely say theres another attack under way :(

    Ah hells..

    For the argument going on about "Why is Paris more important", no, it's not more -important-, but yes, it does hit closer to home to a lot of us for a number of reasons.

    1. It's somewhere that we Westerners are likely to have travelled to, formed a connection to. We can imagine it more easily than we can...well, in Bamako, Mali, or Abuja, Nigeria. It's a pretty common weekend getaway or romantic break. Hell, even school tours - I went to Paris on a school tour, come to think of it.

    2. It's somewhere we Westerners consider "safe", a "world city" where things like this just don't happen, so there's the shock factor too.

    3. It's physically, culturally and socially closer to "home", part of the EU, we feel it as an attack on us as part of Europe too. It gives rise to the whole feeling of where's next? London? Dublin?

    4. Many of us know French students from college or uni, or French workmates. Lot of us learned French in school, if it comes to that. There's the element of "oh god, isn't that where Marie lives? Is she okay?" or "****, my neightbour's son John's staying with his friend there, I hope he's not caught up in it.. Justine must be so worried.." -humanising it further, making a connection, a face in your mind, something to connect to.

    5. We know that Paris, as a big, relatively safe, western city has certain methods of security and ways of going about things that are similar to "ours". So if something so awful can happen there, we can imagine it unfolding in a similar way -here-. (Probably more London than Dublin, but I hope you can see how we might draw the parallels). You only have to look at how Boards has been discussing it to see the fears cropping up over and over about how we'd deal with it in comparison to the French police.

    Aaand 6. (I'll stop adding points soon, promise) - many of us might work in companies that have offices or even HQs in France, including Paris. Paris is a close part of our global trade network, and many of us might have been sent to X office there (roughly similar to points 1 and 4).

    It's not that Paris is more important than Bamako. Of course it's not. But we humans are a tribal species trying to work out where our tribe lines are anymore in this world of 24/7 rolling news and horrific acts and situations every day around the world. It's natural that we identify with the situations closer to home first. Right and wrong don't come into it, it's human nature.

    TL;DR (first, you lazy person!), - We have closer ties to France, it's natural we identify and are shocked when something awful happens there compared to a place we've never been and don't know anyone from.


  • #5901
    Yosef.coen
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34 ✭Yosef.coen


    Let's hope the situation in Mali is not too serious. Obviously it is not the Amish that is behind it.


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  • #5902
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Samaris wrote: »
    It's natural that we identify with the situations closer to home first. Right and wrong don't come into it, it's human nature.

    Exactly. I think of the analogy using road crashes deaths. Just because the news report on one that happened in Ireland, doesn't mean we don't give a fuk about the rest of the world.

    The attack was still ongoing when people on Twitter etc were hand-wringing about focusing on "white people". Presumably they had some insider info on the victims skin colour...


  • #5903
    Flint Fredstone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,519 ✭✭✭Flint Fredstone


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    I am sick to death people telling me on Facebook that people don't care what's going on in Syria. People on their moral pedestal telling me how I view the lives of French people more than Syrians. Totally fallacious and out of context.

    The reason it is broadcast by the media more is because the media is overwhelmingly Western. France is a Western country with Western values so an attack on Western values would be seen also an attack on Irish values. No offence , but bombings are all too frequent in the middle east. Just as mass shootings in the America are. Sure obviously my heart goes out to everybody died in these countries , but I have a more visceral response towards people who died in France due it's proximity to my country and how incongruous it seems that a mass slaughter took place there. The First of it's kind since the Second World War.

    Yeah but Lebanon and brown people :rolleyes:


  • #5904
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    starting to look bad though Sky could be sensationalising this -


    number of French people staying in hotel.
    number of Air France staff involved.
    people who could recite the Koran released.


    all of the above could be complete rubbish by the way, thats what they are saying however.


  • #5905
    Anachrony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Memnoch wrote: »
    Because, clearly, if there wasn't a refugee crisis, there is literally NO OTHER WAY that determined terrorist nutjobs, most of whom seem to be home grown, would find a way to cause such carnage in Europe.

    No, the easier way would be to be born there, from parents who were peaceful refugees. The homegrown Muslim terrorists are actually more worrying. Because it means screening out the extremists from the refugees is insufficient. For every new Muslim living in Europe, no matter how peaceful, some small but significant percentage of their children and grandchildren will be radicalized, leading to instability for generations to come. Once they have citizenship there's no turning back.

    Islam isn't a race it's an ideology, and not all of those are equal or compatible.


  • #5906
    Samaris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Anachrony wrote: »
    Once they have citizenship there's no turning back.

    Except the current method of removing citizenship from people who go off on their journey to Syria for jihad training.


    Also, since when have we punished people for acts that they might commit in the future (when there is not the slightest shred of proof it's being considered now) or the potential crimes of their children? Wasn't there a film about that, come to think of it..?


  • #5907
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    Hits closer to home because you value their lives more. No foam here just hard facts

    Ah, feck off with this type of nonsense.

    Here's some good articles on the whole notion of the 'tragedy hipster' and relay their points way more accurately than I could hope to.

    https://storify.com/JamilesLartey/on-fff

    https://medium.com/@martinbelam/you-won-t-read-about-this-in-the-media-but-b275d46fd51f

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/deaths-paris-beirut-media?CMP=fb_gu
    It is undeniable that the western media is hardwired to care more and cover western stories more, and from a western point of view. Of course, western media outlets tend to have the benefit of greater resources. They broadcast in English, a global lingua franca, and they take advantage of a global cultural hegemony that amplifies their concerns far more widely than is reasonable. But CNN has the right to focus on material from its originating culture, as much as al-Jazeera does from an Arab or Middle Eastern point of view.

    But we can all do better, as journalists and as news consumers, to project global events, broadcast information and make victims feel less alone. This means paying attention to more high-impact events that are out of our comfort zones, rather than cherrypicking those that make the disparity of care point best, and guilt-tripping others for not paying equal attention all the time. Otherwise we just undermine the sense of solidarity that we claim to be seeking.


  • #5908
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,744 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Weatherproof79 wrote: »
    Sick of hearing about it now. Where was the outcry for the innocent Russians, the bomb in Lebanon and Turkey? There was no silence before games for them or changing our Internet avatars to their flags yet they were all targeted by isis. Isis are scum no doubt and so is valuing a persons life from one country over another. All a bunch of hypocrites
    huh, weird. I must have missed all the threads you started about Russia, the Lebanon, and Turkey. Y'know, since you're so incensed that they didn't get as much airtime.


  • #5909
    thomasj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Guardian reporting that a second female body has been found at the flat where the raid and explosion took place.

    Neighbours were quoted as saying there was a blonde female spotted in the facinity


  • #5910
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    MOD
    Please note that there is a seperate thread for the situation ongoign in Mali.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057525155#


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  • #5911
    Weatherproof79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 174 ✭✭Weatherproof79


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Ah, feck off with this type of nonsense.

    Here's some good articles on the whole notion of the 'tragedy hipster' and relay their points way more accurately than I could hope to.

    Thanks I won't f off but thanks for the offer. Oh the first one is calling me a hipster left wing activist from a right whinger article. Absolutely riveting I won't bother checking the others I'm neither thank god. Let me guess you have the French avatar too and I hurt your feelings


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