Windows 10 November update 1511 - DO NOT INSTALL

CatInABox wrote: »

Working fine here.

Sounds like your hard drive is failing, tbh.

Nothing wrong with the HDD, or the hardware, Microsoft are the people saying that the issue is with 1511,

And if it was hardware, how do you explain a completely different machine that was running 8.1 and updated to 10 today that did exactly the same except no BSOD crashes, due to different video card and processor. That in theory also installed 1511, but the system information has the wrong version number in it, which according to the tech rep is because it wasn't supposed to be installed on an "Irish" machine.

Fortunately, because it was moving from 8.1, it could be returned to 8.1, the killer with the 1511 update on 10 system is that it destroys ALl the previous system restore points, so if it fails for ANY reason after the update, there is NO way back to the earlier version of 10, other than restore a backup, or rebuild from ISO media.

That's NOT friendly, very few users I know do a complete back up of their HDD before updating, it takes too long to do, they might back up their personal data, and maybe their mail files if you are lucky, but the entire disc of maybe 400 Gb? Doesn't happen with many of the machines I see on a regular basis, if for no other reason than that it takes too darn long to do on a regular basis, and the other risk is that if they've only one external drive, and the backup crashes while it's running, where does that leave you?

I will be on the phone to M$ tomorrow morning to get this sorted one way or another, at minimum, I want a version of 10 that allows me to have control of MY computer again, so I can prevent it from updating things that are not stable. That is supposedly one of the things that is available with 1511 for "business" use, we'll see how that conversation goes.

I suspect, based on some background comments from the rep I was dealing with the other day, there are too many users having BSOD issues after the install, which is preventing the M$ techs from getting in to the machine to even find out what's broken.

I also suspect that the problem that's causing this is that the earlier version of Windows update is not correctly handling the third party drivers that were assumed to be in place for 1511, which then causes problems.

I think it goes something like this. If you install 1511 as a new install, it goes through all the devices and puts the right drivers into place, so there won't be too many issues as such. However, my suspicion is that if you upgrade, it sees the device and that it's got the drivers installed, so doesn't do an update driver cycle in the same way as a new install, and the result is that 1511 is then trying to use the 10240 drivers, and the drivers that should have been previously installed by update during the 10240 cycle have not been installed, and that then borks 1511.

When the rep checked this laptop, there were at least 9 drivers that should have been installed, but were not, we were able to force update some of them, but the process is far from automatic, we had to go into device manager and force a driver update check, which solved some of the issues, but there's no way to force the system to update drivers for a network attached printer, and we spent some time trying to find out how to get round that, one program told us there was a driver update pending, and when we then went in to the device driver in print spooler, which was the only way to get at it, that told us the driver was up to date. He was VERY worried when he found that, in that while a missing printer driver won't take a system down very often, if at all, a missing video driver, or a missing chip set driver most definitely can and does cause problems.

The fall out for M$ from this could be significant, as it was being touted as "the release for corporate users", there are some new facilities in this release (for Pro upwards) to be able to defer or delay updates, which is important for corporates to ensure they don't end up with a dead system.

Clearly there are more issues with this release that could be tolerated, and it will have to have been a very high level decision to pull it, and that IS going to yet again do damage to M$ reputation.

I have worked with (and cursed) every version of Windows since it started, and the early version came on 11 floppy discs, so rebuilding it wasn't a hassle if it went up it's hole. I've just has to spend longer than I care to admit to getting an Acer Laptop on Vista back into stable condition, which meant a factory restore, followed by a nightmare number of updates, which took a LONG time, even on a fast fibre connection, and it was not a clean process, several times it's not done what it should have, and the end result, while it works, has cost a lot more time than it was probably worth, but an upgrade wasn't an option right now.

I didn't want to have to try and deal with the hassles of getting to grips with Linux, but I have to admit that I am wondering if I am going to have to bite the bullet on doing it, I'm seeing and hearing increasing levels of resistance and reluctance to move to W10 from a significant number of users, for all sorts of reasons, and this latest faux pas by M$ will not help at all.

The biggest complaint I am hearing is "It's MY computer, but I no longer have control over what's being done to it", and there are times and situations where forcing a user to upgrade is not convenient, especially for a business use laptop that can be moving all over the place, and discovering that it's starting a 3 hour upgrade 20 minutes before a flight is due to depart from a foreign location is not going to endear the user to M$, even more so if when it eventually does finish it then goes up it's hole and can't be quickly or easily recovered.

What we can be sure of is that there is a large team of people being told in very blunt terms "FIX IT, NOW", with the emphasis very much on the "NOW". It will be interesting to see how long it takes to do that, and to see what has changed when it does re emerge into the cold light of day

Thanks for that link, it is indeed VERY important to check some of the things that Microsoft are doing behind our backs.

The more I see of their arrogance and incompetence, the less I like them, and I've not been a fan of Microsoft for some time now, the total cost of ownership is becoming increasingly unacceptable.

YMMV, but the revised update is still causing huge problems on some machines, I reinstalled it on the Acer a few days ago, and had to remove it for a second time within 24 hours, as the updated version had even more issues than the original release.

BSOD issues, which are almost certainly driver related, and there's no easy way to find out which driver it is that's causing the problem

Microsoft Bluetooth mouse is not working, it has to be re connected after each boot, and even then, it won't always connect correctly. If you go to the web page for the device, the link given is for Win 8.1, which is not a lot of help for W10, and if you download the latest driver to reinstall it that fails with an error message that it's older than the driver that's in use.

The Broadcomm WiFi is unstable, and loses the connection on a regular basis, almost certainly driver related, as it's completely stable on the previous version.

The support team at Microsoft had no ideas on why, or how to resolve the problems, other than to revert to the earlier release again.
For a release that is supposedly the corporate user version going forward, this is a pretty damning indictment of just how arrogant, and bad, the management and developers at Microsoft have become.

Given that some of my users are mobile, and can't be waiting for their machines to update at Microsoft's whim, W10 is a non starter for them, imagine trying to get through Airport Security with an open Laptop that's displaying the "updating, do not power off" message. Not going to happen, and for Microsoft to even think that such an attitude is acceptable to the business community is an arrogance that defies commercial logic and understanding.

The result for me is that I will be looking very closely at alternatives to Windows as a specific project, not because I want to, but because Microsoft have made it clear that their "flagship" offering is not stable, reliable or safe to be used in a corporate environment, so some sort of alternative has to be found, as there's no indication that there will be any significant change in attitude from Microsoft any time soon.