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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #5642
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97776889&postcount=2341
    Your post is trivialising and dismissing a serious issue.
    To bring it into an Irish conext.
    PROMINENT IRISH MUSLIM cleric Shaykh Dr Muhammad Umar Al-Qadri has called on the Islamic leadership here to denounce and condemn extremism.
    Shaykh Umar earlier told Keelin Shanley on RTE’s Today with Seán O’Rourke that a member of his council was physically assaulted when trying to post anti-extremist flyers at a Dublin mosque.
    He claimed that up to 100 of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland are silent supporters of Islamic State with radical ideologies.
    “These people have not been challenged or isolated. This does not mean they are violent extremists, but they are extremist in their ideology and thinking. We must stand against them,” he said.
    People shouldn't be assaulted for putting up posters.
    There shouldn't be mosques that are against an anti-extremist stance.
    Extremists need to be challenged by their own community.


  • #5643
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Duggy747 wrote: »
    Footage from one of the cafes of the attack, no gore but from around 0:30 onwards you can see just how insanely lucky the 2 women were outside the cafe. The fúcker stood right above them to execute them both but his AK jammed and he ran off.

    A minor point but I object to your use of the word "execute" as it gives a semblance of legitimacy. It's murder.


  • #5644
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Your post is trivialising and dismissing a serious issue.
    To bring it into an Irish conext.

    People shouldn't be assaulted for putting up posters.
    There shouldn't be mosques that are against an anti-extremist stance.
    Extremists need to be challenged by their own community.

    so UP TO 100 out of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland may support extremists?

    Now would you say that % is higher or lower than the number of people who support dissident Republicans?

    How many Irish people are out marching and calling for heads to roll when someone gets murdered by those scum?

    Look if you can find a way to catch/kill/jail/whatever these isis ***** then lets go, I would be behind you all the way but to follow the usual outrage crowd and scream about how De Mooslimz are not doing enough to stop this is uneducated and downright idiotic.


  • #5645
    Darkglasses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUjHb4C7b94


    Here's the documentary I mentioned earlier. It was a real eye-opener. Vice news are very hit and miss I know, but I think this is one of their best.


  • #5646
    Wurzelbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,804 ✭✭✭Wurzelbert


    questionmark? wrote: »
    Those ladies were so lucky that the gun jammed and I have no doubt he would have went into the cafe to finish who was in there. Shocking footage and it makes you wonder what goes through these pigs minds when they start shooting.

    the ladies were damn lucky if they weren’t shot…and there they keep telling us ak47s always work…could have been empty mag of course…


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  • #5647
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    ihatemyfish wrote: »
    According to a poll conducted by Pew Research, 564 million Muslims believe in death for apostasy. That is not a small percentage of fundamentalists.

    I cannot link myself but you find all the data on Muslims and their beliefs on Pews site.

    http://www.islamicperspectives.com/apostasy1.htm


  • #5648
    bajer101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    so UP TO 100 out of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland may support extremists?

    Now would you say that % is higher or lower than the number of people who support dissident Republicans?

    How many Irish people are out marching and calling for heads to roll when someone gets murdered by those scum?

    Look if you can find a way to catch/kill/jail/whatever these isis ***** then lets go, I would be behind you all the way but to follow the usual outrage crowd and scream about how De Mooslimz are not doing enough to stop this is uneducated and downright idiotic.

    I would say that the figure is much higher than 100. If 30-40 Irish Muslims have actually travelled to Syria to fight for ISIS, then it would be safe to assume that the number who tacitly support them would be in the hundreds if not thousands. If you take the figure of 20% of British Muslims sympathising with the 7/7 bombers you realize that whatever the Irish figure, it is undoubtedly a lot higher than the support for dissident republicans.


  • #5649
    hufpc8w3adnk65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,158 ✭✭✭✭hufpc8w3adnk65


    Lads I'm sorry now for the question I'm sure some will call "silly" but I belive theirs no such thing as a silly question

    Who or what is IS or Islamic state and what does their problem with Paris / France stem from?


  • #5650
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    bajer101 wrote: »
    I would say that the figure is much higher than 100. If 30-40 Irish Muslims have actually travelled to Syria to fight for ISIS, then it would be safe to assume that the number who tacitly support them would be in the hundreds if not thousands. If you take the figure of 20% of British Muslims sympathising with the 7/7 bombers you realize that whatever the Irish figure, it is undoubtedly a lot higher than the support for dissident republicans.

    well I think PROMINENT IRISH MUSLIM cleric Shaykh Dr Muhammad Umar Al-Qadri who gave the up 100 figure would be in a better position to say than your guess don't you think?


  • #5651
    Pudsy33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,920 ✭✭✭✭Pudsy33


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    Lads I'm sorry now for the question I'm sure some will call "silly" but I belive theirs no such thing as a silly question

    Who or what is IS or Islamic state and what does their problem with Paris / France stem from?

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

    This is a long, but worthwhile, read about what IS are and what their goals are. It was published before Paris but is interesting nonetheless.


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  • #5652
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    well I think PROMINENT IRISH MUSLIM cleric Shaykh Dr Muhammad Umar Al-Qadri who gave the up 100 figure would be in a better position to say than your guess don't you think?

    No, no, no. I've spent many hours imagining the true horror of how many Muslim terrorists there are in Ireland and I believe I'm in the best best position to say. I reckon there's 312,609 Muslim terrorists in Ireland at the moment.


  • #5653
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,860 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    312.608.
    I just told a colleague to stop and he said he would


  • #5654
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    inforfun wrote: »
    312.608.
    I just told a colleague to stop and he said he would

    You better make him march to prove it!


  • #5655
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Aren't they? Anders Behring Breivik, a reportedly self described 'Christian Warrior' gunned down 77! Are all Christians worldwide responsible for his actions? Is Christianity as a religion to blame?
    Lets follow the logic.

    Though their ideology is abhorrent and completely incompatible with liberal western democracy, most followers of the KKK arent violent. The overwhelming majority of them in fact. A large minority dont have much issue with violence against non-whites though and feel it is more or less justified.

    Should we invite them to live here en masse? If not why not?

    Why does Islam get a pass when we wouldnt dream of entertaining other groups with equivalent beliefs?


  • #5656
    bajer101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    well I think PROMINENT IRISH MUSLIM cleric Shaykh Dr Muhammad Umar Al-Qadri who gave the up 100 figure would be in a better position to say than your guess don't you think?

    I think we are talking about two different things here. You said that 100 Irish Muslims support extremists and went on to compare this to the percentage of Irish people who support dissidents. But Al-Qadri said that there could be up to 100 actual extremists. The percentage of Irish Muslims who quietly support them is bound to be a lot higher than 100, and would also be a lot higher than the percentage of Irish people who quietly support dissidents.


  • #5657
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    Lads I'm sorry now for the question I'm sure some will call "silly" but I belive theirs no such thing as a silly question

    Who or what is IS or Islamic state and what does their problem with Paris / France stem from?

    Islamic State or ISIS or ISIL or DAESH are a terrorist al Qaeda dissident group based in Iraq and Syria formerly called al Qaeda in Iraq. They emerged after Bush invaded Iraq as al Qaeda in Iraq and were responsible for the deaths of Kenneth Bigley, Margaret Hassan, etc. Their leader Zarqawi was killed and were lying low until the Arab Spring and Syria's civil war in particular gave them a new cause and a new leader. And a new name. They have fell out with mainstream al Qaeda based in Afghanistan but remain close to African offshoots of al Qaeda like AQIM and Boko Haram.

    Tying in Paris and France: ISIS have become more an idea than a group. The ISIS leadership has urged followers worldwide to rise up against so-called 'infidel' targets. France has the biggest Sunni Muslim population outside of the Middle East so among them has many ISIS followers. They do not regard themselves as belonging to France and are only too happy to join in. France like many countries is perceived as soft and this made attacks here relatively easy.

    ISIS hate every country in the world so potentially every country is at risk. However, ISIS need to have committed people that live in the country they plan to attack and this is not available or is less available in many places. Ex-colonial European powers with large Sunni populations that are relatively poorly guarded seem to be the most vulnerable.


  • #5658
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    so UP TO 100 out of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland may support extremists?

    Now would you say that % is higher or lower than the number of people who support dissident Republicans?

    How many Irish people are out marching and calling for heads to roll when someone gets murdered by those scum?
    That's one man estimate of support for ISIS alone, it's doesn't address support for extremism.
    Which as has already been pointed out, if it was similar to support in the UK it would be a lot higher.
    Can you show me a poll done in the republic that shows significant support for dissident Republican violence?
    Where have I said that people should be out marching against Islamic violence?
    I'm making a valid point that support for extremism exists within the Muslim community and that it will take a community effort to combat it.
    Also some people in the non-Muslim community needs to stop relentlessly making excuses for this extremism.
    Look if you can find a way to catch/kill/jail/whatever these isis ***** then lets go, I would be behind you all the way but to follow the usual outrage crowd and scream about how De Mooslimz are not doing enough to stop this is uneducated and downright idiotic.
    What's idiotic is you ignoring valid points and engaging in Ad hominen attacks.


  • #5659
    take everything
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,858 ✭✭✭take everything


    Tabloid headlines like "Paris massacre Mr Big" fetishising these assholes today.

    The world is so full of morons.


  • #5660
    Darkglasses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,527 ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    MrMac84 wrote: »
    Lads I'm sorry now for the question I'm sure some will call "silly" but I belive theirs no such thing as a silly question

    Who or what is IS or Islamic state and what does their problem with Paris / France stem from?

    A very large militant group who's stated aim is to establish a global Caliphate through violence, with Abu-Bakr Al-Baghdadi as the Caliph. They control a large area on the border between Syria and Iraq. They impose a brutal Sharia law on the area. They instruct their followers outside of their Islamic state that they can compensate for living outside of the state by making violent attacks, such as the one in Paris.

    Somewhat simplified but I think that's fairly accurate.


  • #5661
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    bajer101 wrote: »
    I think we are talking about two different things here. You said that 100 Irish Muslims support extremists and went on to compare this to the percentage of Irish people who support dissidents. But Al-Qadri said that there could be up to 100 actual extremists. The percentage of Irish Muslims who quietly support them is bound to be a lot higher than 100, and would also be a lot higher than the percentage of Irish people who quietly support dissidents.

    from the link
    He claimed that up to 100 of the 50,000 Muslims in Ireland are silent supporters of Islamic State with radical ideologies.

    So there are UP TO 100 silent supporters (Not extremists as you claimed) of IS in Ireland, And now you're saying that there just has to be THOUSANDS of even more silent supporters of this 100 becaaaaaaaaause.......stuff. :rolleyes:


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  • #5662
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Apparently this 'mastermind' or Organiser of the Attacks I'd rather say -- had left for Syria but there was no record/evidence of his return to Europe. That's worrying.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34867615

    According to the link, they got word from 'outside the EU' that Abaaoud was in Greece (i imagine the implication is a fake passport/refugee status) on Monday before the attack.

    His cousin was also killed, so possibility of a radicalised family.


  • #5663
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 22,499 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    Apparently this 'mastermind' or Organiser of the Attacks I'd rather say -- had left for Syria but there was no record/evidence of his return to Europe. That's worrying.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34867615

    According to the link, they got word from 'outside the EU' that Abaaoud was in Greece (i imagine the implication is a fake passport/refugee status) on Monday before the attack.

    His cousin was also killed, so possibility of a radicalised family.
    his cousin is a spineless cretin


  • #5664
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    That's one man estimate of support for ISIS alone, it's doesn't address support for extremism.
    Which as has already been pointed out, if it was similar to support in the UK it would be a lot higher.
    Can you show me a poll done in the republic that shows significant support for dissident Republican violence?
    Where have I said that people should be out marching against Islamic violence?
    I'm making a valid point that support for extremism exists within the Muslim community and that it will take a community effort to combat it.
    Also some people in the non-Muslim community needs to stop relentlessly making excuses for this extremism.


    What's idiotic is you ignoring valid points and engaging in Ad hominen attacks.


    Support for all extremists exist in communities, that's how they exist. I'm not making excuses for them I'm pointing out the stupidity these threads always go down to when something like this happens. Has this one descended into the "NUKE EM" stage yet?


  • #5665
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Has this one descended into the "NUKE EM" stage yet?

    Ah, that's old hat at this stage.


  • #5666
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Ah, that's old hat at this stage.

    Yeah the first 30 or 40 pages are usually the internet warriors who think we should kill millions of innocent people to save a few hundred innocent people followed by the usual "we need boots on the ground" warriors who break down crying when you ask them if they will be one of the first pair of boots on the ground.


  • #5667
    bajer101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,178 ✭✭✭bajer101


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    from the link



    So there are UP TO 100 silent supporters (Not extremists as you claimed) of IS in Ireland, And now you're saying that there just has to be THOUSANDS of even more silent supporters of this 100 becaaaaaaaaause.......stuff. :rolleyes:

    I recall hearing him on the right hook mentioning the 100 figure and there was mention of "silent support".

    "The Imam of the Al-Mustafa mosque in Blanchardstown also claims that there are now up to 100 extremists in Ireland."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-hate-westerners-we-are-isis-chilling-words-of-irish-muslim-teens-to-cleric-31425033.html

    My claim that the amount of Irish Muslims who would silently support extremism is not based on "stuff", it is based on the available poll figures from our nearest neighbours, where over 20% of British Muslims would support violence against civilians in certain circumstances. To suggest that only 100 Irish Muslims (0.002%) would support extremism is laughable. That would mean that their British counterparts are 10,000 times more extreme!


  • #5668
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    bajer101 wrote: »
    I recall hearing him on the right hook mentioning the 100 figure and there was mention of "silent support".

    "The Imam of the Al-Mustafa mosque in Blanchardstown also claims that there are now up to 100 extremists in Ireland."

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/we-hate-westerners-we-are-isis-chilling-words-of-irish-muslim-teens-to-cleric-31425033.html

    My claim that the amount of Irish Muslims who would silently support extremism is not based on "stuff", it is based on the available poll figures from our nearest neighbours, where over 20% of British Muslims would support violence against civilians in certain circumstances. To suggest that only 100 Irish Muslims (0.002%) would support extremism is laughable. That would mean that their British counterparts are 10,000 times more extreme!

    But without definitive evidence your guess is exactly that.....a guess! Using another countries polls to make claim is idiotic beyond belief.


  • #5669
    Depp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Depp


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    And not too bothered about religion either i would imagine.

    Religion is the forefront of their motivations, I believe personally Islam and the qu'ran is a huge part of the problem and to say that the fact they're Muslims is irrelevant is a ridiculous viewpoint, this whole apologist ''Islam hasn't got anything to do with it'' argument is proper loony bin stuff, the qu'ran is a fatally flawed text and as long as its followed religiously by large numbers in its current form these groups will keep popping up, they'll keep growing huge followings, they'll keep brainwashing kids, and they'll keep killing those that stand in their way.

    Its all tickedy boo when its third world countries engulfed in their madness and they kill a few here a few there, but what happens when a proper global superpower is taken over by these evil madmen, what happens then? And I'm not suggesting there will be headlines of 'Daesh Invade USA' or 'Daesh Invade the UK', I'm suggesting what if their tactics they brag about, taunt us with, work, that is political takeover once they infiltrate the populous, and vote in Islamic candidates into government, and then what do we do? This might seem ridiculous and I'm not saying it'll happen next year or the year after, but mark my words, if things continue the way they are, and the idiotic, 'ah we cant be racist they're only poor refugees' attitude keeps gaining traction,and the shengen agreement isn't completely rethought, this will become a reality, sharia law will be our day to day life. This is their stated aim and this is how they've stated they plan to do it.

    True, not all refugees are crack Daesh soldiers in disguise, and they don't pose the danger of blowing up football stadiums, put they pose danger in a different manner, and this may seem silly to you now but they creep us all closer to the moment where the muslims are the majority. Sure they tell us 80% of muslims are ''moderate muslims'', if thats the case, whats the problem having a few more of them around, but if thats true then let me ask you this, if most muslims in the world are not radical, why do Daesh have the power they have in syria and iraq, muslim countries where the majority are supposedly so called 'moderate' muslims? why do they have such a wide spread following in Islamic communities around the world? Why do young men and women from Islamic communities around the world, some recent converts even, flock to syria in their droves, the word ''Jihad'' proudly stamped in their passports under reason for travel?

    If you dont see Islam and the qu'ran in their current forms as HUMONGOUS problems you need to open your eyes, read the qu'ran, read the hateful message it gives, see whats being relayed to these people from early childhood as ''The unchanging word of GOD as revealed to Muhammad.'' Then argue that I'm wrong and Islam is not at fault at all here. You can mention the IRA and the crusades and the westboro baptist church and Anders Breivikand any use other apologist tactics all you wan't they have no relevance to the problem that is the Islamic organization Daesh and their quest for global domination, which is what this is the start of. Worrying amount of people refusing to speak out due to fear of being branded with the big ''R word,'' there are bigger things afoot to be afraid of.

    This is my viewpoint and I don't apologize for nor hide from it. No doubt there are people that will demonize me as ''racist'' and ''islamaphobe'' for holding these views, and quite frankly I could care less, I am not a racist, Islam is not a race, its a fanatical ideology based around the flawed teachings of an evil, Illiterate, bearded Pedophile, and I am not Islamaphobic, a phobia is defined as an irrational fear, which fear of Islam is not, its completely rational to fear something that teaches to kill you for having a differing set of beliefs. This is my passionate plea to people to open their eyes to the unadulterated evil we are allowing, even encouraging, to creep into our society. Don't have me proven right.

    what a racist bigot huh?

    Edit: Fixed for anyone who had difficulty before


  • #5670
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,955 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    ^^^^^^^^Paragraphs by any chance???


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  • #5671
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    Comparing Islam to other religions is not comparing like to like. Islam is much more than that.

    "Islam is a “total way of life.” It has provided guidance in every sphere of life, from individual cleanliness, rules of trade, to the structure and politics of the society. Islam can never be separated from social, political, or economic life, since religion provides moral guidance for every action that a person takes. The primary act of faith is to strive to implement God's will in both private and public life. Muslims see that they, themselves, as well as the world around them, must be in total submission to God and his Will. Moreover, they know that this concept of His rule must be established on earth in order to create a just society."

    Thus by it's very nature Islam is in conflict with how modern secular democracies work. Thankfully, most Muslims do not aspire this standard.


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