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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #5552
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Yosef.coen wrote: »
    Short memories(...............)they want no peace.

    Colonialism is wrong. Murders in Paris don't make it right. Trying to hijack anger over it makes your "case" even weaker.


  • #5553
    Sunnyisland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    Shttp://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34858514


    Muslims around the world have been uploading videos and messages to condemn the attacks in the French capital.
    As a clear picture emerged of the multiple attacks in Paris on Friday night, more than 90,000 people, many of them Muslim, revived the hashtag "Not in my name" which first emerged last year to denounce extremism that had been justified in the name of Islam. Hundreds of thousands have also used the tag "Muslims Are Not Terrorists".


  • #5554
    strelok
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭strelok


    Yosef.coen wrote: »
    Everyone knows... Yet no proof offered that I am a shill.
    If I said everyone knows that all Muslims are terrorists would you be so forgiving of the facts?

    no proof offered that you in particular are a shill, no.

    it seems a very reasonable assumption though.


  • #5555
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,997 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    An interesting article from the Mirror a few days ago about the meaning of Daesh and a chilling message from ISIS.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-daesh-mean-isis-threatens-6841468

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • #5556
    The Sun King
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 488 ✭✭The Sun King


    Hate speech.
    Defamation.
    Paid shill.
    Racial profiling.

    All in the space of a few posts. Cyber police will have to backtrace all this.


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  • #5557
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Of course people have complete freedom of religion. I can practice any religion i want in Ireland today. A freedom to practice religion and using religion to refuse to pay taxes is not the same thing. Persecution based on religion is one of the core pillars on which asylum and refugee law is based. It's as core a human right as you can get. Obfuscate all you like with your "absurdisms".

    Oh that is complete nonsense. You do not have complete freedom of religion. The Irish state has repeatedly overridden religious freedom in certain specific cases and rightly so. And to be clear I am not calling for an abolition of the existing freedom of religion I am merely pointing out that like virtually every other right it is limited.


  • #5558
    DubVelo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭DubVelo


    TheLastMohican wrote: »
    There needs to be a unifying presence in Islam to restore law and order. If one guy held the reins (like the Pope or that Guy in Constantinople), then his interpretation of the Koran should be it. But that would take a few centuries and he'd be dead after a few decades.

    Soooo, all the nations get together and ..................... !

    IS would probably say something along the lines of: 'There is NO interpreting the koran. It is the word of god and there is either following it and being muslim, or not.'


  • #5559
    DubVelo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭DubVelo


    Yosef.coen wrote: »
    If the Palestinians loved their children as much as they hate the Israelis there would be peace between us.

    Daaamn... That is nasty.

    I mean, that is some Goebbels / KKK / Apartheid level **** right there.


  • #5560
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Oh that is complete nonsense. You do not have complete freedom of religion. The Irish state has repeatedly overridden religious freedom in certain specific cases and rightly so. And to be clear I am not calling for an abolition of the existing freedom of religion I am merely pointing out that like virtually every other right it is limited.

    I don't think you know what freedom of religion is.

    No one is suggesting that 'freedom of religion' should or does allow people to break other laws. Freedom of religion is the right to practise whatever religion one chooses, but obviously you still have to abide by the law.


  • #5561
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Yosef.coen wrote: »
    Short memories there. You are forgetting Oslo for example. Of course the truth of the matter is that the Palestians are not largely interested in peace. Time and again they have been offered terms. When the people of gaza elect Hamas it is a clear indication they want no peace.

    Again, the thread is not about Hamas, its really rather sad that you are trying to hijack this thread for your own personal Anti-Palestinian agenda.


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  • #5562
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Sorry to disappoint some of you fine gents here

    Eight terror suspects named so far are not refugees and have EU passports


  • #5563
    Boom_Bap
    Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,740 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Yosef.coen wrote: »
    You mentioned I was a paid shill for the IDF with zero evidence or proof to back it up. That is racial profiling at its worst.
    MOD
    This is a thread about the incidents in Paris.
    Please stop trying to derail this thread with discussion with other situations around the globe.


  • #5564
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0Y8tAaXuCc


  • #5565
    kupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭kupus


    realies wrote: »
    Shttp://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34858514


    Muslims around the world have been uploading videos and messages to condemn the attacks in the French capital.
    As a clear picture emerged of the multiple attacks in Paris on Friday night, more than 90,000 people, many of them Muslim, revived the hashtag "Not in my name" which first emerged last year to denounce extremism that had been justified in the name of Islam. Hundreds of thousands have also used the tag "Muslims Are Not Terrorists".

    When a million of them walk the streets and say not in my name then i will take it seriously. any gobshote can post anything online, look at this thread.


    "Muslims are not terrorists" ......
    ....ok however "most terrorists are muslim"


  • #5566
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    Sorry to disappoint some of you fine gents here

    Eight terror suspects named so far are not refugees and have EU passports
    You're wasting your breath with some people.

    I can guarantee you some people will claim this is evidence that Muslims should never be allowed immigrate and naturalise lest their children come back and attack us in 30 years time.


  • #5567
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,298 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Hate speech... Get real ya clown
    Oh that's the foot in the door before the big guns of "anti semitism" comes along. Specifically designed to stop debate in its tracks and/or label any opposing position as some sort of "ist". Very common on the interwebs and it often works as they know they're for the most part dealing with ordinary non extreme folks who would take that as an insult and feel guilt. Calling anti semitism on an actual anti semite would do nada. If anything egg them on.
    DubVelo wrote: »
    Daaamn... That is nasty.

    I mean, that is some Goebbels / KKK / Apartheid level **** right there.
    And that's the practised varnished version DV. Private thoughts and opinions can be far darker.

    Personally I'm really pulled between two positions on Israel. Major schizoid tug of war going on in my head and heart. On the one hand I am a big supporter of Israel on so many levels. To the degree that your average student leftie, up the PLO types would take grave issue with me. On the other hand coming from a nation which had its own history of religious violent plantation by a foreign power and the shít that came out of that I have huge sympathies for Palestinians being driven from their lands, to hell or to Connaught, at the point of a Galil and bulldozer, while the Israeli government tries to claim it wants peace? Like the schoolyard bully using a weaker kids own fist to punch him with. Stop hitting yourself. Atomic powered ballsology there and a timeline map of Israel is all the proof one needs. I'm pretty sure if I was born an Arab I'd be at best extremely suspicious of their BS. Much more likely that I'd be a full on anti semite.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #5568
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    kupus wrote: »
    When a million of them walk the streets and say not in my name then i will take it seriously. any gobshote can post anything online, look at this thread.


    "Muslims are not terrorists" ......
    ....ok however "most terrorists are muslim"

    All men are not rapists...
    Most rapists are men.

    See what I did there?


  • #5569
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    kupus wrote: »
    When a million of them walk the streets and say not in my name then i will take it seriously. any gobshote can post anything online, look at this thread.


    "Muslims are not terrorists" ......
    ....ok however "most terrorists are muslim"

    Nonsense, I never went on a march to prove I was against the the IRA as an Irish man and Muslims shouldn't have to do the same now. If they have come out online and said they are against the attacks in Paris, why do you need them to go through any more hoops?


  • #5570
    inforfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,860 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    After less than a week discussing the attack in Paris in the MSM in The Netherlands the following recap can be made.
    I think it is quite to the point for this thread as well. (Translated via Google translate from Dutch)

    Causes of radicalization and / or terrorism

    Apartheid (see: Israel)

    Asylum policy (see: populism, (neo-) kolonialsme)

    Banlieues

    Cuts (see: Islamophobia)

    Whites, excuse me: white people

    Bush, George W.

    Cartoons (of Mohammed cartoons of Anne Frank are subject expression)

    Criminalization of Muslims

    Europhobia

    Facts (see: criticism of Islam)

    Mental health (see cuts)

    Borders, closed

    Criticism of Islam (see: Islamophobia)

    Islamophobia (see: Islamophobia)

    Israel (see: Apartheid)

    Jews (according honest anti-Semites, see: Zionists)

    Climate Change

    Colonialism (see also: neo-colonialism)

    Marginalization of Muslims

    Media, social

    Media, traditional

    Military intervention in Iraq

    Military intervention in Syria (see: no military intervention in Syria)

    Muslim hatred (see: Islamophobia and criticism of Islam)

    Neo-Colonialism (in countries that never colonized)

    Not military intervention in Syria

    Education (see: racism)

    Insecurity, sexual

    Putin, Vladimir (see: Geenstijl)

    Police (see: racism)

    Populism (see Wilders, right)

    Privilege, white

    Racism, whether or not the institutional

    Right (dip, guur-, or otherwise)

    Togetherness, lack (see cuts)

    Slavery (by whites, excuse me: white people)

    Internships, lack of (see: Islamophobia)

    Subsidies, lack (see cuts)

    Telegraph,

    Exclusion of Muslims

    Lighting, (see: islamkrititiek, Islamophobia, Islamophobia, racism)

    Arms supplies (to dictators supported by the West)

    Arms supplies, lack of (secular, moderate and pro-Western freedom fighters)

    We

    White people (see: whites, slavery and the rest of this list)

    Xenophobia (see criticism of Islam, etc.)

    Wilders, Geert

    Zionists (as unfair anti-Semites)

    Zwarte Piet (see: racism)

     

     

    Not cause of radicalization and / or terrorism

    Islam


  • #5571
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    kupus wrote: »
    When a million of them walk the streets and say not in my name then i will take it seriously. any gobshote can post anything online, look at this thread.


    "Muslims are not terrorists" ......
    ....ok however "most terrorists are muslim"
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    All men are not rapists...
    Most rapists are men.

    See what I did there?

    Not all Christians murder medical staff who perform/assist with abortions.
    Most of those who murder medical staff who perform/assist with abortions are Christians.


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  • #5572
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,421 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    Kiwi in IE wrote: »
    Not all Christians murder medical staff who perform/assist with abortions.
    Most of those who murder medical staff who perform/assist with abortions are Christians.
    I was raised a christian (catholic), while I no longer practise, Im still quantified catholic in the stats. These so called christians (I would argue they have left christianity behind) do not murder medical staff in my name. No more than average muslim population supports the terrorist actions.


  • #5573
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Oryx wrote: »
    I was raised a christian (catholic), while I no longer practise, Im still quantified catholic in the stats. These so called christians (I would argue they have left christianity behind) do not murder medical staff in my name. No more than average muslim population supports the terrorist actions.

    Exactly the point I was making!


  • #5574
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    seamus wrote: »
    You're wasting your breath with some people.

    I can guarantee you some people will claim this is evidence that Muslims should never be allowed immigrate and naturalise lest their children come back and attack us in 30 years time.

    Well it is isnt it?

    If those who voluntarily came to Europe cant integrate after 30 years and have a significant minority who oppose European liberal democracy, what hope have we with these refugees?

    What will it take for people to realise this is an ideological issue stemming from the teachings of Islam


  • #5575
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    "Can't integrate" presumes the opportunity was afforded to them in the first place.

    The argument is basically an argument against all immigration, not just muslim.


  • #5576
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »
    I don't think you know what freedom of religion is.

    No one is suggesting that 'freedom of religion' should or does allow people to break other laws. Freedom of religion is the right to practise whatever religion one chooses, but obviously you still have to abide by the law.

    NO I do and that is literally the point I was making I was responding to a commenter who appeared to be rejecting the notion that freedom of religion like any other right is constrained. One does not have the right to 'practise whatever religion one chooses' one has the right to practice whatever religion one chooses as permitted by law. And if the laws of a country reject my religious beliefs for instance lets take ritual female genital mutilation my freedom of religion is to that extent limited.


  • #5577
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭weisses


    seamus wrote: »
    "Can't integrate" presumes the opportunity was afforded to them in the first place.

    Isn't that something one should do out of his own when moving to another country ?

    There are many schemes supporting people who move to another country


  • #5578
    StewartGriffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,284 ✭✭✭StewartGriffin


    inforfun wrote: »
    After less than a week discussing the attack in Paris in the MSM in The Netherlands the following recap can be made.
    I think it is quite to the point for this thread as well. (Translated via Google translate from Dutch)

    Causes of radicalization and / or terrorism

    Apartheid (see: Israel)

    Asylum policy (see: populism, (neo-) kolonialsme)

    Banlieues

    Cuts (see: Islamophobia)

    Whites, excuse me: white people

    Bush, George W.

    Cartoons (of Mohammed cartoons of Anne Frank are subject expression)

    Criminalization of Muslims

    Europhobia

    Facts (see: criticism of Islam)

    Mental health (see cuts)

    Borders, closed

    Criticism of Islam (see: Islamophobia)

    Islamophobia (see: Islamophobia)

    Israel (see: Apartheid)

    Jews (according honest anti-Semites, see: Zionists)

    Climate Change

    Colonialism (see also: neo-colonialism)

    Marginalization of Muslims

    Media, social

    Media, traditional

    Military intervention in Iraq

    Military intervention in Syria (see: no military intervention in Syria)

    Muslim hatred (see: Islamophobia and criticism of Islam)

    Neo-Colonialism (in countries that never colonized)

    Not military intervention in Syria

    Education (see: racism)

    Insecurity, sexual

    Putin, Vladimir (see: Geenstijl)

    Police (see: racism)

    Populism (see Wilders, right)

    Privilege, white

    Racism, whether or not the institutional

    Right (dip, guur-, or otherwise)

    Togetherness, lack (see cuts)

    Slavery (by whites, excuse me: white people)

    Internships, lack of (see: Islamophobia)

    Subsidies, lack (see cuts)

    Telegraph,

    Exclusion of Muslims

    Lighting, (see: islamkrititiek, Islamophobia, Islamophobia, racism)

    Arms supplies (to dictators supported by the West)

    Arms supplies, lack of (secular, moderate and pro-Western freedom fighters)

    We

    White people (see: whites, slavery and the rest of this list)

    Xenophobia (see criticism of Islam, etc.)

    Wilders, Geert

    Zionists (as unfair anti-Semites)

    Zwarte Piet (see: racism)

     

     

    Not cause of radicalization and / or terrorism

    Islam

    This is just Western countries trying to figure out why "foreigners" are attacking them. How do these theories hold up to answer why the same group is attacking and oppressing their own people, e.g. Yazidis, the population of Syria, Iraq, etc.
    It's caused by religious extremism.


  • #5579
    testaccount123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭testaccount123


    seamus wrote: »
    "Can't integrate" presumes the opportunity was afforded to them in the first place.

    What?

    They moved from war torn, illiterate hellholes and were provided with housing, welfare, education and healthcare. What do people want, someone assigned to every Muslim to look after their every need perhaps?


  • #5580
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    If we are going to continue along these lines of blaming all Muslims for the actions of their religiously insane homicidal extremists, can we make it a free for all, where we can blame all religious people of every religion, for the actions of their religiously insane extremists? It's only fair I think, and it's not like there is a religion that is free from religiously motivated, homicidal extremists.

    Why is it that it is only Islam that is subjected to this blame? If I were to suggest that all Irish Catholics are responsible for the deaths in 'mother and baby homes' in Ireland, or that all Christians worldwide, no matter what denomination, were responsible for same, there would be an uproar (I don't believe any of the above just for the record). Why is it OK to apply this general blame to Muslims, but Christianity should be exempt from the same treatment?


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  • #5581
    Kiwi in IE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭Kiwi in IE


    Or put it this way;

    If I were to say that every Christian worldwide, is responsible for every murderous act that has ever been committed in the name of Christianity, I would sound like an ignorant, bigoted fool. I'm sure pretty much everyone would agree?

    So those who are saying the similar things about all Muslims sound like...?


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