Garda hits man with baton NAMA

wexandproud · 16-11-2015 08:14PM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Whoosh. Reread my answer to that. The penny might drop eventually.

dont know what the whoosh is about , no wind where i am

like jj said himself , he wasn't hit with the baton and he said way back that his father told him 'exactly what happened' so why would he have to re watch video

Bongalongherb · 16-11-2015 08:16PM

I have excellent eyesight and from watching that video over and over again I can see the reaction of the man's head wobbling when hit by the baton, it was a hit to the top inner shoulder and the neck. It's clear enough to see this. An unjust over-use of force.

16-11-2015 08:16PM

johann johannson wrote: »

Lovely. I fail to see the relevance to the title of this thread however?

Are you failing to acknowledge the number of strikes you were so adamant was a grand total of one?

Or are you only capable of responding via youtube links?

I saw the Garda strike the bald protester once only.

I thought this video relevant to what the Gardai and Auction organisers had to contend with.

Little CuChulainn · 16-11-2015 08:17PM

johann johannson wrote: »

That, unfortunately, is not my point. It's a retort to people suggesting the gardai should know to expect this sort of behaviour from protesters, which I tried to point out that it's not typical behaviour. If it was normal expected behaviour, as described by yourself and others, I'm pretty sure the garda would have arrived in riot gear.

You greatly overestimate the resources available to those Gardaí.

johann johannson wrote: »

So, if a person were to approach to seek clarity on a situation( hypothetically speaking of course, we daren't approach the gardai for clarity) your response would be to smash them with a baton?

Absolutely not. But that is not what i see happening. I see a man trying to get past a Garda to get to an arrested person.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Oh quit being so cowardly and address the points I put to you.

If that man wanted to get past the Garda why did he not just walk past him? Why engage him in conversation and wait until he and another girl were pushed over and she was hanging off his arm before apparently attempting to push past the Garda? Do you have any idea how illogical what you're suggesting is?

He was trying to get from behind the Garda to the prisoner. The Garda used his arm to prevent the direct route. The large crowd pushing and shoving limited any other route. Eventually the Garda pushed back to give himself more room to take out his baton and use it, which he did. That's what i see happening. You see something different. I doubt we will come to an agreement on the matter. That's why I didn't see the point in discussing it any more.

STB. · 16-11-2015 08:38PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

He was trying to get from behind the Garda to the prisoner. The Garda used his arm to prevent the direct route. The large crowd pushing and shoving limited any other route. Eventually the Garda pushed back to give himself more room to take out his baton and use it, which he did. That's what i see happening. You see something different. I doubt we will come to an agreement on the matter. That's why I didn't see the point in discussing it any more.

A prisoner eh. Ah the guards were escorting prisoners through the auction and protest eh. Ah thats a lot clearer then.

We ALL see something different!

Little CuChulainn · 16-11-2015 08:54PM

STB. wrote: »

A prisoner eh. Ah the guards were escorting prisoners through the auction and protest eh. Ah thats a lot clearer then.

We ALL see something different!

It's not really disputed by anyone that the Gardaí arrested a protester and this is what started the scuffle in the video.

STB. · 16-11-2015 09:35PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's not really disputed by anyone that the Gardaí arrested a protester and this is what started the scuffle in the video.

And they were escorting prisoners through all this mayhem as well eh..... sure that sounds like a recipe for disaster

mynamejeff · 16-11-2015 09:39PM

STB. wrote: »

And they were escorting prisoners through all this mayhem as well eh..... sure that sounds like a recipe for disaster

not sure if you don't understand or are being sarcastic .

did you watch the various vids ?

the guy was arrested in the middle of the mob. the mob was interfering in the arrest . thats when the incident happened .

its not like they went down the station grabbed some lad out of the cell and walked him through the mob

Busted Flat. · 16-11-2015 09:43PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

It's not really disputed by anyone that the Gardaí arrested a protester and this is what started the scuffle in the video.[/QUOTE

It's a few days now no court report of someone being charged he was arrested and should have been charged by now, looks like a bit of a fudge to wait till the air clears.
Get a grip one man went out of control and shocked and embarrassed his Colleagues.EG Fairbrother in Finglas, and Robocop springs to mind.

Pedro K · 16-11-2015 10:07PM

@Busted Flat, he may not have been charged yet... You can be arrested and not charged. It is fact that the Gardai placed a man under arrest there. It is seen early on in the full video, and the Garda is heard to say 'I'm placing you under arrest etc.'

Pedro K · 16-11-2015 10:09PM

STB. wrote: »

And they were escorting prisoners through all this mayhem as well eh..... sure that sounds like a recipe for disaster

Considering the dude being arrested and, consequently, the Garda making the arrest were surrounded by people who were trying to interfere in same arrest, how do you propose the Garda should have escorted the man he arrested out?

Busted Flat. · 16-11-2015 10:13PM

Pedro K wrote: »

@Busted Flat, he may not have been charged yet... You can be arrested and not charged. It is fact that the Gardai placed a man under arrest there. It is seen early on in the full video, and the Garda is heard to say 'I'm placing you under arrest etc.'

If it was a serious crime and the Gardaí were not sure it would be referred to the DPP, but it was an alleged assault so what is the delay. Most international news have picked up on this story so why prolong the circus.

Pedro K · 16-11-2015 10:22PM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

If it was a serious crime and the Gardaí were not sure it would be referred to the DPP, but it was an alleged assault so what is the delay. Most international news have picked up on this story so why prolong the circus.

Do we know that that's not the case, regarding a file being sent to the DPP?

For all we know he may well have been released without charge.

Maybe there wasn't evidence to back up the assault. However, when asked to provide his name and address so the Garda could investigate the allegation the guy refused. As such he was arrested and taken to the station to have his details verified.

Busted Flat. · 16-11-2015 10:37PM

Pedro K wrote: »

Do we know that that's not the case, regarding a file being sent to the DPP?

For all we know he may well have been released without charge.

That is not good for the Garda or the management or the Ashdown Park hotel allowing this sort of cheap rent a room to these outfits trying to sell people's homes. If some in a distressed mortgage were offered a write-down of 80% would they be delighted to accept that. But now the deal is offered to vulture funds who want vacant possession. We had the same in wall street before I am all right jack clowns, till they came knocking on the door of the fools of the clowns that thought they were alright.

Seth Brundle · 17-11-2015 09:20AM

johann johannson wrote: »

May I point out, that this particualr 'gobsh*te was down defending the wexford people.

Who asked him to defend the people of Wexford?
What did they need defending from?

In terms of the still photos, what was your father doing crouching behind the garda?

Busted Flat. wrote: »

That is not good for the Garda or the management or the Ashdown Park hotel allowing this sort of cheap rent a room to these outfits trying to sell people's homes. If some in a distressed mortgage were offered a write-down of 80% would they be delighted to accept that. But now the deal is offered to vulture funds who want vacant possession. We had the same in wall street before I am all right jack clowns, till they came knocking on the door of the fools of the clowns that thought they were alright.

Someone bought a house and couoldn't afford the repayments. Should they be allowed to keep the house?
On the one hand, people moan because they feel NAMA is going to cost the taxpayer money and on the other they want NAMA to let people stay in houses for nothing

So should everyone not pay their mortgage then and get a free home? Or just some people?

17-11-2015 09:53AM

Busted Flat. wrote: »

For all we know he may well have been released without charge.

That is not good for the Garda or the management or the Ashdown Park hotel allowing this sort of cheap rent a room to these outfits trying to sell people's homes. If some in a distressed mortgage were offered a write-down of 80% would they be delighted to accept that. But now the deal is offered to vulture funds who want vacant possession. We had the same in wall street before I am all right jack clowns, till they came knocking on the door of the fools of the clowns that thought they were alright.

The usual form is to release without charge and a file sent to the DPP.

Re an 80% write down - Are you for real? Wouldn't every mortgage holder just love this. But - who would pick up the tab for the remainder? Yep, the hard pressed Taxpayer.
The racist abuse handed out to the Auctioneer was nothing short of disgraceful and should be denounced by all.

johann johannson · 17-11-2015 10:02AM

kbannon wrote: »

In terms of the still photos, what was your father doing crouching behind the garda?

Who knows, maybe he was trying to tie the garda's shoelaces together?

From what I can gather from the video, two people were pushed by the garda, my father and a girl. In the subsequent frames, only one person is standing, my father, and is looking towards the ground. A logical reason for this would be if he was looking the girl who 'vanished' from the picture after being pushed? But then again, I'm not logical, as previously commented.

Deleted User wrote: »

The racist abuse handed out to the Auctioneer was nothing short of disgraceful and should be denounced by all.

Fair enough Maryanne84, if that is the case. Maybe you should start another thread on it? And how you can still claim that you only seen one strike is beyond me, even after numerous people pointing it to you and providing stills that there was in fact more than 1 strike?

Are you simply trying to change your approach to justify the garda's actions? May I point out that no gardai were in the building at the time of that auction. So again, I fail to see the relevance of your points.

17-11-2015 10:11AM

johann johannson wrote: »

Who knows, maybe he was trying to tie the garda's shoelaces together?

From what I can gather from the video, two people were pushed by the garda, my father and a girl. In the subsequent frames, only one person is standing, my father, and is looking towards the ground. A logical reason for this would be if he was looking the girl who 'vanished' from the picture after being pushed? But then again, I'm not logical, as previously commented.

Fair enough Maryanne84, if that is the case. Maybe you should start another thread on it? And how you can still claim that you only seen one strike is beyond me, even after numerous people pointing it to you and providing stills that there was in fact more than 3 strike?

Are you simply trying to change your approach to justify the garda's actions? May I point out that no gardai were in the building at the time of that auction. So again, I fail to see the relevance of your points.

Assuming you actually watched the video, just before the Garda flicked his baton to activate it, the girl can be seen walking away. The Garda then hit the man once and went to do so again, but another man had come between them, so he didn't.

Regarding the racist abuse directed to the Auctioneers, it is pertinent to this topic, as it shows that tensions were high from earlier on.

wexandproud · 17-11-2015 10:11AM

johann johannson wrote: »

Who knows, maybe he was trying to tie the garda's shoelaces together?

Are you simply trying to change your approach to justify the garda's actions? May I point out that no gardai were in the building at the time of that auction. So again, I fail to see the relevance of your points.

so now you admit that maby your father was up to no good on the floor.
In all fairness how can you accuse someone of changing their approach , you have gone from one strike to two strikes then three then more than 3

hots · 17-11-2015 10:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

An interesting video taken earlier that day. A lovely bit of Brit bashing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBE0tqqOOIQ

What a bunch of morons.

johann johannson · 17-11-2015 10:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Assuming you actually watched the video, just before the Garda flicked his baton to activate it, the girl can be seen walking away. The Garda then hit the man once and went to do so again, but another man had come between them, so he didn't.

I think that everyone on this thread is pretty sure I have watched the video multiple times. Yes, the garda can be seen activating his baton, well done for spotting this. But I'm talking before this, when the pushing and shoving was going on.
Is it possible the girl was able to get back to her feet? Or maybe you believe she is a magician, magically disappearing and then reappearing.
How can you selectively choose what parts of the video to comment and veiw on is beyond me.

Please do try and keep up.

Deleted User wrote: »

Regarding the racist abuse directed to the Auctioneers, it is pertinent to this topic, as it shows that tensions were high from earlier on.

Maybe so, but tensions weren't high with the gardai as they weren't there, so how can you explain their actions? So again, I fail to see the relevance in this video. It's two different events.

johann johannson · 17-11-2015 10:19AM

wexandproud wrote: »

so now you admit that maby your father was up to no good on the floor.
In all fairness how can you accuse someone of changing their approach , you have gone from one strike to two strikes then three then back to one again

Ha, clearly you have a great difficulty detecting sarcasm. (Hint: that wasn't sarcasm)

Maryanne84 is that you? ( Hint: that was sarcasm)

Wait, was he on the floor or was he crouched? Make up your mind.

I INITIALLY said it was two strikes, and then, having reviewed the video again, I changed my opinion that it was 3 strikes. I've already been called out on this, it's a bit pointless to call me out again, even considering I called myself out on it too.

17-11-2015 10:27AM

johann johannson wrote: »

I think that everyone on this thread is pretty sure I have watched the video multiple times. Yes, the garda can be seen activating his baton, well done for spotting this. But I'm talking before this, when the pushing and shoving was going on.
Is it possible the girl was able to get back to her feet? Or maybe you believe she is a magician, magically disappearing and then reappearing.
How can you selectively choose what parts of the video to comment and veiw on is beyond me.

Please do try and keep up.

Maybe so, but tensions weren't high with the gardai as they weren't there, so how can you explain their actions? So again, I fail to see the relevance in this video. It's two different events.

The girl is plainly seen walking towards the camera!!! Here, I'll help you out. Watch video at 3.30. No magic. http://www.joe.ie/news/video-garda-produces-baton-and-strikes-elderly-man-at-nama-protest-in-gorey/519357

Two different events? Not really. Both same event, same day.

wexandproud · 17-11-2015 10:28AM

j j and in post 652 above you admit it was more than 3 so i really have doubts about your ability to watch the video or believe you father as your 'facts 'keep changing.
im off to work now and you and i will differ on what happened but i do hope your father is ok

johann johannson · 17-11-2015 10:35AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The girl is plainly seen walking towards the camera!!! Here, I'll help you out. Watch video at 3.30. No magic. http://www.joe.ie/news/video-garda-produces-baton-and-strikes-elderly-man-at-nama-protest-in-gorey/519357

Two different events? Not really. Both same event, same day.

So the girl is capable of being in two places at once is what you're saying, as it's the same event?

Ok ok I'll break it down for you:

3:27 - The pushing begins.
3:28 - The girl falls to the ground, can be clearly seen. She grabs my father's arm to regain balance, who in turn grabs the garda's arm to regain balance.
3:30 - My father looks down at the girl, having failed to regain balance, as she is on the ground.
3:36 - she is back to her feet and walks by the camera
3:40 - she pushes her way through. Actually, she pushed here, should she have gotten a strike of the baton too?
3:42 - Garda WX152 calmly puts his notepad away, which was stolen by the man with two left hands. (HINT: Sarcasm)
3:44 - the baton is out
3:46 - strike number 1
3:47 - strike number 2
3:48 - strike number 3

Any clearer?

wexandproud wrote: »

j j and in post 652 above you admit it was more than 3 so i really have doubts about your ability to watch the video or believe you father as your 'facts 'keep changing.
im off to work now and you and i will differ on what happened but i do hope your father is ok

I said more than one. Unfortunately we will differ, and thank you for your concern.

*** EDIT: Unfortunately, I cannot provide stills for you as i don't have enough posts, but I'm sure you are capable of following this simple sequence. It's in chronological order, if that helps.

17-11-2015 10:42AM

johann johannson wrote: »

So the girl is capable of being in two places at once is what you're saying, as it's the same event?

Ok ok I'll break it down for you:

3:27 - The pushing begins.
3:28 - The girl falls to the ground, can be clearly seen. She grabs my father's arm to regain balance, who in turn grabs the garda's arm to regain balance.
3:30 - My father looks down at the girl, having failed to regain balance, as she is on the ground.
3:36 - she is back to her feet and walks by the camera Magic
3:40 - she pushes her way through. Actually, she pushed here, should she have gotten a strike of the baton too?
3:42 - Garda WX152 calmly puts his notepad away, which was stolen by the man with two left hands. (HINT: Sarcasm)
3:44 - the baton is out
3:46 - strike number 1 Flicks to activate
3:47 - strike number 2 Hits man
3:48 - strike number 3 Stops from hitting second time when another man comes between them

Any clearer?

So you do agree that she wasn't on the ground. Good.

wexandproud · 17-11-2015 10:50AM

jj . you went back and changed post 652 after i questioned you on it.. now i really have to be off to work and will not be back on here later

johann johannson · 17-11-2015 10:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So you do agree that she wasn't on the ground. Good.

Actually no, no I don't. Maryanne84, I'm sorry, you're losing all credibility here with these ludicrous claims, or can you see something that no one else on this thread has? Or are you not seeing something that everyone else has?

Do you know what, I can't be ars*d with you anymore. A discussion unfortunately needs both sides to have valid and articulate points, fully backed up. You fail to recognise what others can see.

NachoBusiness · 17-11-2015 11:02AM

kbannon wrote: »

In terms of the still photos, what was your father doing crouching behind the garda?

Why do people keep going on about this? Do you not realize that this all happened mere seconds after he had almost been pushed over and has had a woman hanging off his arm? A woman who has pulled herself up off the floor using that arm? What the hell could he be doing with all that going on? Look at the photos I posted again and you'll see that in in photo 5 the man is almost on the floor himself with the woman's weight and in photo 7 he is first seen in the crouch position (as the woman starts to pull herself up using his arm for support) BEFORE he is behind the Garda's back.

At that point, without the woman's weight on the man's arm the Garda then finally manages to push the man backwards and he remains crouched, but sure who knows why and why should it matter anyway. Could be a number of innocent reasons, why look for a nefarious one? You can clearly see in photos 13 and 14 that is hands are in full view and so what the hell are people thinking he could be at. Tbh, anyone that is still wondering what he is doing is just looking for something to excuse the batoning that he went on to receive.

It's time to stop focusing on this man and start focusing on the actions of the Garda. The man didn't approach the Garda from behind, he is not a notebook thief, or a sexual deviant or any other of the bizarre nonsense which people have leveled at him, in an clear and concerted attempt to discredit him. You may hate this crowd and what they stand for but the man deserves to be judged on his actions, not that of the people he is associated with. Being a Garda is a tough job, granted, but that does not mean that it's members are above the law and can take their frustrations out on members of the public. The man was unjustly and undeservedly beaten with a baton. There can be no excusing that. The Garda was not under threat at time. It was his pushing that caused a situation to go from being reasonably calm, thanks to the other Gardai, to one of chaos where people were falling over and needing to hang off each other. At the very least this man should receive an apology from the state.

johann johannson · 17-11-2015 11:05AM

NachoBusiness wrote: »

Why do people keep going on about this? Do you not realize that this all happened mere seconds after he had almost been pushed over and has had a woman hanging off his arm? A woman who has pulled herself up off the floor using that arm? What the hell could he be doing with all that going on? Look at the photos I posted again and you'll see that in in photo 5 the man is almost on the floor himself with the woman's weight and in photo 7 he is first seen in the crouch position (as the woman starts to pull herself up using his arm for support)BEFORE he is behind the Garda's back.

Without the woman's weight on the man's arm the Garda then finally manages to push the man backwards and he remains crouched, but sure who knows why and why should it matter anyway. Could be a number of innocent reasons, why look for a nefarious one? You can clearly see in photos 13 and 14 that is hands are in full view and so what the hell are people thinking he could be at. Tbh, anyone that is still wondering what he is doing is just looking for something to excuse the batoning that he went on to receive.

It's time to stop focusing on this man and start focusing on the actions of the Garda. The man didn't approach the Garda from behind, he is not a notebook thief, or a sexual deviant or any other of the bizarre nonsense which people have leveled at him, in an clear and concerted attempt to discredit him. You may hate this crowd and what they stand for but the man deserves to be judged on his actions, not that of the people he is associated with. Being a Garda is a tough job, granted, but that does not mean that it's members are above the law and can take their frustrations out on members of the public. The man was unjustly and undeservedly beaten with a baton. There can be no excusing that. The Garda was not under threat at time. It was his pushing that caused a situation to go from being reasonably calm, thanks to the other Gardai, to one of chaos where people were falling over and needing to hang off each other. At the very least this man should receive an apology from the state.

Thank you. The most sense I've seen in this thread.

Garda hits man with baton NAMA

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