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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)
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Dinosurs were also around at the time that Genesis was written.They would have known nothing about dinosaurs 10,000, or 20,000 years ago or even 100,000 years ago. So it is highly unlikely they were referring to dinosaurs. Much much more likely to have being referring to elephants, rhinos or hippos. They were around at the time Genesis was written.
Here is a description of a Brachiosaurus type of large land dwelling dinosaur in Job 40:15-24 New International Version (NIV)
15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?
"Behemoth" cannot be a Hippo or an Elephant because of Job 40:17 "He bends his tail like a cedar". A hippo and an Elephant both have short tiny tails. Behemoth, had a large tail shaped like a cedar tree (large and tapered). Behemoth is clearly a Brachiosaurus type Dinosaur. It fits the description perfectly.
It only makes sense if the Creation was done over 6 literal days ... and that is why Theistic Evolution and trying to fit in billions of years into the Genesis Account of Creation makes no sense.We've covered this before. The creation story, as told, is wrong. Plants can't grow without the sun, day and night can't happen without the sun. The moon is not a light source. So, if he created the sun first, then all the other follow on consequences, it may be a tiny bit more believable (only a tiny, tiny bit)
... and this is what can happen when churches teach that a biblical week is millions of years long ... many people may wait a very long time for 'Sunday' to come around again!!!:)
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Why would God have to take responsibility for our sin? ... He could atone for it, though ... and that is what He did on the cross.indioblack wrote: »Quote:-
"The main points of the Creation narrative are that God created everything, that He has a good plan for our life, that we've screwed that up by our choices, and that He decided to fix that problem."
A problem that an omnipotent God would have to take responsibility for.
... and BTW, He didn't 'fix' the problem of sin and death in this world ... only in the next world.
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An expanding Universe (following an inflationary period of practically instantaneous expansion) doesn't place limits on when God Created it.steamengine wrote: »Another quote from his book appears to show that Hawking does at least entertain the possibility that God had a hand in the creation of the universe.
Quote:-
One could still imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose it had been created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation_(cosmology)
... and here is something to bear in mind, next time you see somebody proclaiming that the 'end is nigh' and/or the universe is very old !!:-
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Treating Adam and Eve as allegorical isn't confined to Atheists !!(Btw, it's a common mistake among atheists to think that treating Adam and Eve as an allegory is a modern invention. Try reading Augustine.)
Anyway, here is the Bad News about the First Adam ... and the Good News about the Second Adam ... both of whom were men, who actually lived on Earth.
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God Created Mankind with the freedom to do good or evil, to love or hate, to sin or be virtuous.indioblack wrote: »Why? He could "fix" anything. So, if he doesn't, it's for a purpose.
And, having created all the elements of existence, if he chooses to let "this" world run it's course, [for a purpose], the final responsibility would be his.
The purpose of God you have referred to, is for each person to have the opportunity to freely love God ... and be Saved for eternity, as a result.
That is all true and part and parcel of a world that operates in accordance with the principles of freewill and to each action there is an opposite and equal reaction.indioblack wrote: »I find it insufficient that mistakes, errors, sins committed long ago should result in a changed world. The Fall as described leaves us in a world where we are inclined to error.
It is for the purpose of limiting the excesses of evil that sin can produce, while still not interfering with freewill.indioblack wrote: »Jesus in the New Testament is part of the desire for salvation.
Yet God could bypass the necessity for all of this in an instant.
He chooses not to.
And the existence mankind has had continues.
Therefore if you put forward the Christian God in this world, tolerating this world, it has to be for a purpose.
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A common mistake is reading it as if it refers to the tail being like a cedar tree.We really don't know what Job was actually talking about. We can speculate all night long. It is a very slim piece of text to extrapolate that because of a reference to a tail resembling a cedar, that dinosaurs were actually still roaming the Earth less than 10,000 years ago.
It makes no such claim. It refers to the movement. A slim branch of a cedar would move similar to a tail of a rhino. A branch swishing back and forth in the wind would look similar to the hairy tail of a rhino moving back and forth. Makes far more sense.
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The whole passage is praising the giant size and great power of this beast ... and the giant size of its tail is what is referred to when comparing it to tapered a Cedar.Michael OBrien wrote: »A common mistake is reading it as if it refers to the tail being like a cedar tree.
It makes no such claim. It refers to the movement. A slim branch of a cedar would move similar to a tail of a rhino. A branch swishing back and forth in the wind would look similar to the hairy tail of a rhino moving back and forth. Makes far more sense.
Please tell me how the Cedar branch in your photo below looks anything like the Rhino tail. 0 -
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So another light source, a star, came and disappeared just as quickly, without trace. While here it gave us morning and evening, day and night and allowed plants to grow, just until the sun came along a couple of days later. All of this you believe just because the bible says it?
I don't understand why you are finding this so difficult. Basically the universe was a building site. He was dependent on various contractor, stuff probably did not arrive on time, or in the right order, so he had to improvise a bit.
Now, I don't have a biblical reference for this (not that this stops most people) but I genuinely believe that what definitely happened is god simply popped down to his local Hirestore and picked up a few of these:
He then cracked on and once his helium supplier actually delivered the helium, which he was supposed to do on the Monday, he got the sun sorted and dropped the lights back on his way home. Job done.
Seriously Safehands, you generally come across as fairly switched on, I don't understand how you can't work this stuff out.
MrP0 -
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What 'giant' size? It refers to how strong it is, not the huge size of it.The whole passage is praising the giant size and great power of this beast ... and the giant size of its tail is what is referred to when comparing it to tapered a Cedar.
Please tell me how the Cedar branch in your photo below looks anything like the Rhino tail.
As mentioned I am referring to the movement of the tail, hence the reference to how it SWAYS. Like a branch sways in the wind. NOT that the tail looks like a cedar branch itself. The tail is thin and the hair on the end would move when it sways, similar to how the cedar branch would sway in the wind.
The passage makes no claim to it being a huge beast (any more so than an elephant or rhino would be considered anyway). The rest of the passage shows that clearly enough. A strong beast certainly, hard to control, but there is nothing in the passage that refers to anything mega-size and certainly no evidence for dinosaurs or other mega-fauna of that type.0 -
Seriously Mr. P, are you honestly suggesting that he used these lights before electricity was invented? How would they have worked without electricity? They are clearly not Gas powered, and gas was around before electricity, so your suggestion can't be correct.I don't understand why you are finding this so difficult. Basically the universe was a building site. He was dependent on various contractor, stuff probably did not arrive on time, or in the right order, so he had to improvise a bit.
Now, I don't have a biblical reference for this (not that this stops most people) but I genuinely believe that what definitely happened is god simply popped down to his local Hirestore and picked up a few of these:
He then cracked on and once his helium supplier actually delivered the helium, which he was supposed to do on the Monday, he got the sun sorted and dropped the lights back on his way home. Job done.
MrP
You need to study the book entitled "Putting Light on the Subject" by T. E. Dison.0 -
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