Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

irish coldplayer wrote: »

For IS they were they wrong type of muslim, and therefore as bad as infidels in their eyes.

This is what a lot of people don't seem to understand.

ISIS is very much an Islamic organisation, it's just that they are vastly worse and more cruel than your average Muslim.

Just because they kill other Muslims doesn't mean they don't follow their own twisted brand of the same faith.

Saying that it's not an Islam problem is denying the truth.

Another suspect arrested in Molenbeek in Belgium.

I find it odd that 2 days after the attacks they managed to round up 8 people already. Surely this information would have been known earlier ?

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I agree ISIS need to be eliminated.
I disagree that the way to do that is through yet more violence for the precise reason that violence is their language.

Where did I advocate appeasing ISIS? Or negotiating with them?

I haven't. Not once. Because I don't think we can.
I also don't think upping the violence will be anything but counter productive and play into their hands so we need to find a radical new approach.

I call it 'Don't feed the trolls'

I am advocating not turning moderate Muslims into extremists by bombing what is left of their homes and killing their families.

I am advocating that we stand firm in our principles and ethics of Western Liberal Democracy but not killing or imprisoning innocent people.

I am advocating not playing the bogieman role ISIS want us to play and showing moderate Muslims that Europe stands with them against extremism.

Offer refugees Sanctuary and when the Crazy Boys have all blown each other up for not being 'Muslimist' enough we aid people to return home and rebuild a la the Marshall Plan in the 1940s.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You'll not get an apology from me because it is the impression I have gotten from reading your posts over the past few hours. Therefore I don't need to quote anything. From reading your posts I believe that you are an appeaser or justifier of Islamic fundamentalism. If that's wrong then your posts haven't been clear enough.

In one of your posts, you mentioned you are a lesbian. Is that correct? Or was it another poster?

I get the impression that you are a warmongering islamphobic white supremacist fascist - not based on anything you have actually said. Just an impression based on reading over your posts where you accuse anyone who says 'not all Muslims are terrorists' of being ISIS supporters and justifiers for atrocity.

Wurzelbert wrote: »

actually it has a lot to do with islam

If it has we would have billions blowing up themselves all over the place. Islam is just a recruitment tool for them to brain wash few. Same as Christianity was used as a tool to recruit crusaders and kill in the name of God.

halkar wrote: »

If it has we would have billions blowing up themselves all over the place. Islam is just a recruitment tool for them to brain wash few. Same as Christianity was used as a tool to recruit crusaders and kill in the name of God.

It has everything to do with Islam, they may be rejected by the majority of Muslims but to say they don't follow and recreate faithfully from the time of the prophet would be wrong.

Its what the entire thing is based on.

Fundamentalists in any religion are generally dangerous.

halkar wrote: »

If it has we would have billions blowing up themselves all over the place. Islam is just a recruitment tool for them to brain wash few. Same as Christianity was used as a tool to recruit crusaders and kill in the name of God.

Not exactly.

The Koran is full of open ended verses about violence and what to do with unbelievers. These are verses for all Muslims. Some choose to follow them, some dont. The difference with the Crusades is that nowhere in the bible will you find Christians instructed to kill those who dont believe.

fed up sick and tired wrote: »

But you did say 'Muslims launch...', not 'Muslims launched...'.

Words mean specific things you know.

It is really too dambusters to wiggle out of it now, just to suit your own highjinks.

Oh dear, I made a typo. Actually I made quite a few - care to point them all out? That would be frabjous.


Fact remains - a campaign was launched and that seems to be upsetting some people as it doesn't fit into the 'Muslims aren't speaking out' narrative.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find Christians instructed to kill those who don't believe?

This has already been posted

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »

Is this another one of those special bibles that excludes the entire old testament?

Read my comment again. CHRISTians were not around in the Old Testament (I capitalized the Christ part of the word to give you a clue as to why).

The violence of the OT has to be taken in context. God is speaking directly to the Israelites, who were constantly under attack. He guided them and asked them to had the battle over to Him.

Nowhere in scripture (as far as I can see) are Christians told to kill in the name of God. If you disagree, feel free to share some passages.

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

This is what happens when you have mass immigration from cultures who will never intergrate.

One dare not mention the fact that a certain group of a particular religion have problems integrating into modern secular western culture.

In fact the kicker is, some are actually using these attrocities as an excuse to welcome in even greater numbers who are "supposedly" fleeing these barbarians.

The reason I say supposedly is because a huge number of the migrants/refugees have been proven to not even come from Syria or Iraq where this group have set up their so called state.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Yes.

All this talk of 'expel the scum', 'drop a nuke on Mecca', and the frankly bizarre blaming of 'liberal extremists' seems to me to be the real threat to 'our way of life'.

A Fortress Europe built on fear and hatred of those we deem 'other' is not a place I want to live - plus as a continent we have been there and done that killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people along the way from the Cathars to the Jews.

During the years of Christian fundamentalism in Europe is was the Muslims in the Caliphate of Cordoba who keep the light of civilization burning while Christendom was busy burning people and anything that look pagan.

Without Islam we wouldn't have a modern European democratic 'civilization' in the first place as they were the ones who saved the works of Ancient Greece from destruction by Christians.

These atrocities are carried out by fundamentalist extremists who claim they are doing this for Islam (as the Inquisition claimed to be acting for Christianity) but do not represent all Muslims. They want to destroy our liberal democratic way of life and those who want to see a right-wing fascist response want exactly the same thing.
They want ordinary Muslims to feel the West is their enemy - what better PR could we give them then to allow dead Muslim children to wash up on our shores while we concentrate on bombing the very places those children are fleeing from?

An extremist response to extremism will destroy Europe.

Ahh FFS.
Here we go again.

Yes muslim scholars actually kept ancient Greek manuscripts and teachings.
Hell they developed branches of astronomy and mathematics whilst the christian world were just figuring out how to build castles and siege machines.

But why don't you bother putting bloody dates on it ?

This was over a thousand odd years ago.
And while you are at it why don't you elaborate on the contributions to civilisation made by the muslim world over the last few hundred years.

Your post stinks of whataboutery.

Some others here hint at fact that Irish had terrorists so how can we speak out.
Sure didn't the British, French, etc do bad things so how can they speak out.

And before anyone starts trying to say this is just a few thousand crackpots why not comment on the reaction of muslims to cartoons or the reaction of ordinary muslims over the last couple of decades to fact that their mosques have been turned into recruiting grounds for jihadists.

Then perhaps someone can also square the fact that so many muslims in western countries want to implement sharia law which would be in direct conflict with the secular law of the lands in which they live.

It is laughable to claim that this problem is not a muslim problem.
These guys believe in a version of islam that would be more at home in 8th century Arabia, but it is still a version of islam.
These guys didn't just appear out of nowhere.

For too long the muslim world has kept it mouth shut and tolerated extremists.

And yes the west has stuck it's nose in and screwed up the place.
I am of the opinion that we in the western world and actually the countries themselves were better off with the likes of Hussein and Gaddafi.
What they have now is inter tribal inter sect civil wars which knows no end to the bloodshed.
And the West are still squawking about getting Sadat out when the bigger problem is what they replace him with.

The idea that these people can take on-board our version of democracy is pie in the sky.
We saw what happened in Egypt.
The hardline bigots won the elections and tried to reverse the country a haundred odd years.

What beggars believe is how many normal liberal minded people in Europe stand up for morons who would actually see them as their worse enemy.

If you are to take stuff from the Bible in context why not stuff from the Koran?

jmayo wrote: »

One dare not mention the fact that a certain group of a particular religion have problems integrating into modern secular western culture.

In fact the kicker is, some are actually using these attrocities as an excuse to welcome in even greater numbers who are "supposedly" fleeing these barbarians.

The reason I say supposedly is because a huge number of the migrants/refugees have been proven to not even come from Syria or Iraq where this group have set up their so called state.



Ahh FFS.
Here we go again.

Yes muslim scholars actually kept ancient Greek manuscripts and teachings.
Hell they developed branches of astronomy and mathematics whilst the christian world were just figuring out how to build castles and siege machines.

But why don't you bother putting bloody dates on it ?

This was over a thousand odd years ago.
And while you are at it why don't you elaborate on the contributions to civilisation made by the muslim world over the last few hundred years.

Your post stinks of whataboutery.

Some others here hint at fact that Irish had terrorists so how can we speak out.
Sure didn't the British, French, etc do bad things so how can they speak out.

And before anyone starts trying to say this is just a few thousand crackpots why not comment on the reaction of muslims to cartoons or the reaction of ordinary muslims over the last couple of decades to fact that their mosques have been turned into recruiting grounds for jihadists.

Then perhaps someone can also square the fact that so many muslims in western countries want to implement sharia law which would be in direct conflict with the secular law of the lands in which they live.

It is laughable to claim that this problem is not a muslim problem.
These guys believe in a version of islam that would be more at home in 8th century Arabia, but it is still a version of islam.
These guys didn't just appear out of nowhere.

For too long the muslim world has kept it mouth shut and tolerated extremists.

And yes the west has stuck it's nose in and screwed up the place.
I am of the opinion that we in the western world and actually the countries themselves were better off with the likes of Hussein and Gaddafi.
What they have now is inter tribal inter sect civil wars which knows no end to the bloodshed.
And the West are still squawking about getting Sadat out when the bigger problem is what they replace him with.

The idea that these people can take on-board our version of democracy is pie in the sky.
We saw what happened in Egypt.
The hardline bigots won the elections and tried to reverse the country a haundred odd years.

What beggars believe is how many normal liberal minded people in Europe stand up for morons who would actually see them as their worse enemy.

I see the point of what I wrote which is that extremism begets extremism and if we abandon the liberal democratic principles which are the foundation of post-WWII Europe (that would be from 1945) ISIS will have won because our way of life will be destroyed sailed completely over your head.

The extremists select choice quotes from the Quran to justify their murder sprees. If you ever have read the Quran you will know its needs to read in its entirety to understand Allah's teachings.
Ask any normal Muslim they will tell you the Quran and Islam is a message of peace.
You also have to remember this book was written 1400 years ago, messages of killing are related to the battlefield not justification to murder people today.

ISIS are jealous of our freedom and liberties, that is why they want our destruction.