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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Isaiah wrote: »
    There are many faults within organised Christian religions but there is nothing wrong with people having different beliefs. If you think there are then you are no better than the religious fundementalists that believe everyone who doesnt believe exactly what they do is wrong and dangerous.

    Now, the issue at hand here is not religion, it's Islamic fundementalists.

    Exactly. People who get their sick kicks from murdering other people and terrorism will try to hide behind and twist the most convenient cause they can find. I remember in London after the numerous murders carried by Irish terrorists, a lot of sectarian bandwagoners trying using it as mask to push their anti-Irish agenda. They also thought their attempts were opaque, but they were also pretty see through.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭long range shooter


    Looks like Donald Trump just came up with what could have been done to prevent it from happening.
    Sometimes you wonder if you live on another planet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3318748/Donald-Trump-says-Paris-attack-different-situation-victims-armed-guns.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Isaiah wrote: »
    I agree that we need some way of recieving Syrians. We should set up a large camp on an island somewhere, where they can be safe and fed until this war is over. We can ask the Saudis to help fund it all.

    Sure - ask the Saudis... they can divert some of the funds they are giving ISIS or perhaps some of the money they are paying Western countries for arms.

    Concentrate all the refugees on an island you say? Should we get them all to wear some symbol on their clothes too so we can easily recognise them? A Crescent perhaps?

    What island do you suggest?
    Isle of Man?
    Skye?
    Inishbofin?
    Iceland?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    Looks like Donald Trump just came up with what could have been done to prevent it from happening.
    Sometimes you wonder if you live on another planet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3318748/Donald-Trump-says-Paris-attack-different-situation-victims-armed-guns.html

    That saddest thing is Trump is the other side of the extremist coin, and has a very good chance of getting elected. So the killing is going to be perpetuated, and Trump and his cronies will make billions out of it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Isaiah wrote: »
    There are many faults within organised Christian religions but there is nothing wrong with people having different beliefs. If you think there are then you are no better than the religious fundementalists that believe everyone who doesnt believe exactly what they do is wrong and dangerous.

    Now, the issue at hand here is not religion, it's Islamic fundementalists.

    The issue at hand is fundamentalists and extremists of all or any religious or political ideology.

    As for 'nothing wrong with people having different beliefs' - I'm not the one suggesting refugees who have a specific religion be concentrated on an island...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Sure - ask the Saudis... they can divert some of the funds they are giving ISIS or perhaps some of the money they are paying Western countries for arms.

    Concentrate all the refugees on an island you say? Should we get them all to wear some symbol on their clothes too so we can easily recognise them? A Crescent perhaps?

    What island do you suggest?
    Isle of Man?
    Skye?
    Inishbofin?
    Iceland?

    The Australians do it and it's working for them. Just because I suggest housing them in a safe location but not allowing them to have carte blanche access to Europe you compare me with a Nazi?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    K - so people complain that Muhammad married a child. It is pointed out - with historically verifiable examples - that this was actually quite common among the Christian ruling elites.

    Then it becomes 'oh, well... 'they' still do it' - so it is pointed out that sooooo do Christians and in fact the greatest number of child marriages occurs in Hindu India.

    Let's try it in a Secular manner then (since I'm a Atheist). Westerners don't support child marriage. It's illegal. Many (yes not all obviously) of these immigrants from Muslim countries do. And they smuggle children into the West to do it. India is outside of our jurisdiction. A significant number of Muslims want their laws here. Find me a link for Hindu child marriages IN a Western country.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/22/ukcrime.gender

    #Notallmuslims but it's bloody well a lot them turning a blind eye to it. We have to highlight and tackle problems with Muslim society in the West because most of them WONT. In that link the girls entire family participated in an underage marriage in London.

    Really getting annoyed with some my fellow Liberals in this thread. We don't have a Christian or Hindu immigration problem (and I guarantee we'd all complain if we had evangelical christian refugees from South Carolina or Texas!!). The criticism of of many Islamic practices is a genuine and relevant one -- not just terrorism but an issue of human decency in our society.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    By the by - the age of consent in the Vatican was raised from 12 to 18 by Pope Francis. Yup - the current pope. This meant that until recently (pre-July 2013) it was legally possible for a 50 year old man to marry a 12 year old girl (or indeed a 50 year old woman marry 12 year old boy) in St. Peter's Basilica. The very heart of The Roman Catholic Church.

    Your trying too hard.:rolleyes: The Vatican has no proper citizens and no minors. A marriage wouldn't actually occur as all their citizens (clergy) are forbidden to marry. It was an archaic law forgotten about and never acted upon -- as meaningless as the rights of a Trinity Student to have a sword or attack Welsh people after midnight.

    How long before someone uses that one to defend Muslim terrorists brandishing swords in Syria....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    I find you're more likely to be labeled a Nazi if you disagree with the 'tolerant' uber left.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    The issue at hand is fundamentalists and extremists of all or any religious or political ideology.

    As for 'nothing wrong with people having different beliefs' - I'm not the one suggesting refugees who have a specific religion be concentrated on an island...

    No it's not. It's not Christian extremists or Jewish extremists that carry out 99% of these attacks. It's Islamic Extremists.

    I am not saying people from a religion should be concentrated on an island.

    I am saying the waves of refugees should be accommodated on an island. Just like the Australians do. It's working out fine for them.

    Stop trying to use underhanded tactics to draw parallels with what I am saying and Nazism. You are deliberately misinterpreting what I say in order to make snide comparisons with Far right extremism. The very thing I am against and the very thing Islamic Fundamentalists are about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    That me?

    Please show me where I defended Islam?

    Is saying 'Not all Muslims are terrorists' defending Islam?
    Is saying 'Muhammad was an old goat in a time period when Old Goats ruled' defending Islam?
    Was it when I said 'not all refugees from Syria are ISIS members'?

    Perhaps not roaring 'ALL Muslims are animals and we should nuke the ME and kill them ALL' is now defined as defending Islam?

    Given I am not only an atheist but also someone who is against all organised religion I would really like to see where I defended a religion so linky please.
    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Given that Ireland is one very small country in a big world I try to not be parochial when looking at world events.

    These are actually two points that can be taken together, in both cases I think the problem is this slavish insistence on some kind of equivalence of all religions being just as bad as each other and wouldn't it be great if everyone was an atheist tomorrow. Now I might take this view in the long run but in the short term we do have to deal with some of the realities; Europe isn't looking at a spate of bombings conducted by disaffected Sikh immigrants or Anglicans outraged at the showing of 'The Life of Brian'.

    No, we are dealing with fanaticism primarily from those seeking the creation of a theocratic state and whilst I wouldn't say it is exclusively a product of Islam, we can't get away from the fact that it must have something to do with it, given the frequency of events like those we just saw in Paris. Again, it's this equivalence of 'well sure aren't all religions just terrible' that I feel is part of the problem; NATO actions in Serbia and the present state of relations with Russia haven't triggered a spate of Eastern Orthodox suicide bombings in Western Europe, so we really need to look at the facts and try to spot some of the differences before deciding on a course of action.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Isaiah wrote: »
    The Australians do it and it's working for them. Just because I suggest housing them in a safe location but not allowing them to have carte blanche access to Europe you compare me with a Nazi?

    I doubt if the people in the Australian camps feel 'safe' - particularly the rape victim who had to fight to be allowed to travel to Australia to get an abortion.

    Ironic that a country founded by transported convicts that did it's best to wipe out the native population is now complaining about immigrants eh.

    If you don't it implied that a comment you made is a tad nazi then don't make comments that sound a tad nazi.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 736 ✭✭✭La Fenetre


    I find you're more likely to be labeled a Nazi if you disagree with the 'tolerant' uber left.

    That's true, but the uber also right try their best to make sure the word is never brought up.
    Why's that I wonder ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    I find you're more likely to be labeled a Nazi if you disagree with the 'tolerant' uber left.

    Thankfully the veil has dropped and people can see them for what they really are.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    Man describes 'saddest moment' after getting into taxi with crying Muslim driver following Paris attacks

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/man-describes-saddest-moment-after-6834933?ICID=FB_mirror_main

    A man has described "the saddest moment" he'd experienced as part of the human race, after stepping into a waiting taxi cab following the Paris terror attacks.

    A conversation with a driver in Manhattan, inspired New Yorker Alex Malloy to speak out following the horrific attacks on Friday night that left 129 people dead.

    The first words the 23-year-old heard as he got into the car were "thank you", and what followed “one of the most heartbreaking moments" he'd ever experienced.

    His driver, a Muslim, explained Malloy had been his first customer in more than two hours - blaming the people of New York being too scared to get into his cab.

    The stunned New York customer wrote on Twitter: "For 25 minutes I had to tell this stranger, this human being like you and I, that he was not part of what was happening.

    "He cried the whole way to my apartment and it made me cry too. He kept saying, 'Allah, my god, does not believe in this. People think I'm a part of this and I'm not'."

    He told his passenger that nobody wanted to drive with him as they "felt unsafe"

    Malloy added: It was one of the most heartbreaking moments I've ever experienced in my whole life.

    "He was such a sweet guy, around my age, he couldn't have been older than 25.

    "I couldn't and still can't believe I had to listen to this man's words."

    He finished: "Please give your sympathy towards these people, they are not only victims of discrimination but also hate in times like this.

    "Please stop generalising a society of people.

    "Pleas stop saying 'Muslims' are the problem, because they are not.

    "These are our brothers and sisters... we are all humans."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Pocoyo wrote: »
    The Ulster unionists are far more comparable to ISIS than the IRA.

    Oh dear, that really is an utterly childish thing to say.

    Generally speaking the Unionist people of NI are no more into terrorism than the Nationalist people of NI. Obviously there are/were terrorist groupings in NI who used terrorism as a means to an end, but you can't compare a whole people/culture to a terrorist movement!

    Imagine if I said that "The German people are far more comparable to ISIS than the Nazi's.
    No of course not, but some people might compare ISIS to the Nazi's, and rightfully so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I doubt if the people in the Australian camps feel 'safe' - particularly the rape victim who had to fight to be allowed to travel to Australia to get an abortion.

    Ironic that a country founded by transported convicts that did it's best to wipe out the native population is now complaining about immigrants eh.

    If you don't it implied that a comment you made is a tad nazi then don't make comments that sound a tad nazi.
    Okay so your solution is to let that rapist into Australia instead?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    La Fenetre wrote: »
    That's true, but the uber also right try their best to make sure the word is never brought up.
    Why's that I wonder ?

    I dunno, ask the uber right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭TheLastMohican


    Isaiah wrote: »
    ...............................................................
    ...................................................................................................
    ...............

    Now, the issue at hand here is not religion, it's Islamic fundementalists.

    Am afraid you lost me here. Is not Islamic fundamentalism a religious sect under the banner of Islam?

    And why do most of these groups pay homage to the idea of an Islamic caliphate?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Now we see al the do gooders on Facebook posting statuses about the attacks in baghdad and lebanon that they don't really care about. Also I noticed a few people thought the Kenyan University attack happened last week, why ? Has the media been talking about it recently or something and thats whats confusing people? Anyway it makes their cringey statuses about caring about everybody hilarious because they don't even realise the events theyre trying to bring peoples attentions to happened almost year ago. Irony at its finest


  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Oh dear, that really is an utterly childish thing to say.

    Generally speaking the Unionist people of NI are no more into terrorism than the Nationalist people of NI. Obviously there are/were terrorist groupings in NI who used terrorism as a means to an end, but you can't compare a whole people/culture to a terrorist movement!

    Imagine if I said that "The German people are far more comparable to ISIS than the Nazi's.
    No of course not, but some people might compare ISIS to the Nazi's, and rightfully so.
    I'm surprised that anyone even bothered to reply to such a comment.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,732 ✭✭✭Arne_Saknussem


    Okay so your solution is to let that rapist into Australia instead?

    Only if it's an Old Goat Statutory rapist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,137 ✭✭✭c montgomery


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I doubt if the people in the Australian camps feel 'safe' - particularly the rape victim who had to fight to be allowed to travel to Australia to get an abortion.

    Ironic that a country founded by transported convicts that did it's best to wipe out the native population is now complaining about immigrants eh.

    If you don't it implied that a comment you made is a tad nazi then don't make comments that sound a tad nazi.

    I think a safe zone for migrants to be kept is a good idea. Food, shelter and medical treatment provided for all but no access to mainland Europe. When the war is over they can go home. If that's not possible look at integrating them but at a pace that suits us.

    No where is totally safe, but allowing loads of migrants into Europe is not going to make it any safer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Man describes 'saddest moment' after getting into taxi with crying Muslim driver following Paris attacks

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/man-describes-saddest-moment-after-6834933?ICID=FB_mirror_main
    If that is supposed to make me feel sad for the guy it didn't work. You know who I feel sad for? The families of those who were killed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I doubt if the people in the Australian camps feel 'safe' - particularly the rape victim who had to fight to be allowed to travel to Australia to get an abortion.

    Ironic that a country founded by transported convicts that did it's best to wipe out the native population is now complaining about immigrants eh.

    If you don't it implied that a comment you made is a tad Nazi then don't make comments that sound a tad Nazi.

    If you place any amount of people together you will have crime. The chances of which increase with the amount of people and social conditions. It happens in towns and cities, and it will happen in refugee camps. They are running from bombs and guns, then they should be happy to be accomodated in safe areas.

    However, the dangers of allowing 100's of thousands of people in from an extremely messed up part of the world where sectarianism and extremism is rife far outweighs the risks associated with accommodating refugees in refugee camps that are remote from the EU.

    There they can have their cases heard, or they can choose to wait out the war and return, consulates from other countries can be set up their so people can apply for asylum where they want, to other Middle East countries for example.

    It would stop all this chaos and create some order to it. It would also discourage the chancers.

    Now off you go to google to try find something bad that happened in Australia’s refugee camp so you can make another "but what about this" retort.

    I have quite enough of trying to reason with you, you are unreasonable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I'm surprised that anyone even bothered to reply to such a comment.

    Well they did get two thanks in post 3644 > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=97738840&postcount=3644

    But you're right, I should have left it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Man describes 'saddest moment' after getting into taxi with crying Muslim driver following Paris attacks

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/man-describes-saddest-moment-after-6834933?ICID=FB_mirror_main

    I'd imagine the families of those killed in Paris experienced an even sadder moment upon learning of the death of their daughter/husband/uncle etc than that of a taxi driver who merely lost a couple of hours custom. Not that I'm entirely unsympathetic, it must be really crap to see your value system used to justify acts you would never commit yourself but the narrative which implys that Muslims who face some loss of income or hear some criticism are the real victims is getting tired at this point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,190 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Lockstep wrote: »
    Looks like the Syrian passports found are fake
    At any rate, you have to question why a terrorist thinks to bring their passport when they know they'll be killed.

    Obviously it's a deliberate statement, but that doesn't make it any better. If ISIS are using that access route to bring people into Western Europe, even if they're only doing it to show that they can, then there's a very real security problem.

    It was criminally stupid of the authorities to just hope it wouldn't happen and act as though hope was enough. It would be homicidal recklessness to go on with that lack of procedure/policies now. Like not checking airport luggage because there's already been a bomb!

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Just had a look at the images from inside the concert,these images should be shown on all news networks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭whatismyname


    If that is supposed to make me feel sad for the guy it didn't work. You know who I feel sad for? The families of those who were killed.

    I highly doubt anyone was suggesting that you were supposed to feel sad for the New York taxi driver, and not feel sad for those who had lost their lives, being injured in the attacks, or anyone else affected.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,218 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    These are actually two points that can be taken together, in both cases I think the problem is this slavish insistence on some kind of equivalence of all religions being just as bad as each other and wouldn't it be great if everyone was an atheist tomorrow. Now I might take this view in the long run but in the short term we do have to deal with some of the realities; Europe isn't looking at a spate of bombings conducted by disaffected Sikh immigrants or Anglicans outraged at the showing of 'The Life of Brian'.

    No, we are dealing with fanaticism primarily from those seeking the creation of a theocratic state and whilst I wouldn't say it is exclusively a product of Islam, we can't get away from the fact that it must have something to do with it, given the frequency of events like those we just saw in Paris. Again, it's this equivalence of 'well sure aren't all religions just terrible' that I feel is part of the problem; NATO actions in Serbia and the present state of relations with Russia haven't triggered a spate of Eastern Orthodox suicide bombings in Western Europe, so we really need to look at the facts and try to spot some of the differences before deciding on a course of action.

    Yet - in my lifetime, in the country where I was born and reared it was one particular religion that would have seen me locked in an institution and taken my son from me - and that religion was not Islam.

    Tell the survivors of the Laundries and those women who had their children taken from them that they were not victims of a theocratic state and religious fundamentalism.

    Christianity has had to dial back but that battle was fought long and hard for hundreds of years and as the recent SSM debates showed (and no doubt the Repeal the 8th Campaign will reinforce) it's not all sunshine and lollipops now either.
    Look at the Kill the Gays Bill in Uganda for example.

    Currently on a global scale is it certain Islamic groups that are violently expansionist as happened in the past- Christianity has also been violently expansionist in it's past and could possibly be again in the future.

    Expansionist fundamentalist ideologies are the problem - and that is not confined to Islam or religion.


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