Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Fleawuss

So let's say that there were 5 people with guns in Bataclan. They hear gunfire and draw their gun and depending where they are see someone shooting towards the back of the theatre. They shoot him. Then a different armed person spots the person who just shot the first guy and shoots him...

In a situation like that with gunfire how do you know who is who? The bad guys always have assault rifles? Look at some YouTube clips of right to carry folk in the states. The bad guys wear black? At a metal concert?

A trained person however: look at the accounts f the ex Irish army ranger in Kenyan Mall massacre.

BorneTobyWilde

Considering all the planning of these incidents in Paris went unnoticed I find it remarkable that the England V France game goes ahead on Tuesday at Wembley.
What if part of that planning ,that no one clearly knows about is to do the same in and around Wembley on Tuesday.
Seems like a security nightmare to let that game go ahead.
We already know that one of the people involved was a French national and that he could of boarded a plane to uk easily. How many more French nationals are out there who could slip through security and into Wembley on Tuesday.
Seems very plausible that a French ISIS member could travel to that game with a ticket.

nxbyveromdwjpg

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Terrorists on their way to carry out attack, stopped by police,

ID please, there you go, carry on

no ID out of the car, the car searched explosion,operation over

Get real. They had ****ing explosives strapped to them, they are not concerned about some hugely unlikely random ID check.

And in any case if they're driving they need a driving licence, not a passport. Were any drivers licences found?

The (fake) Syrian passports were there for a very specific and intended purpose and reaction. This much is surely obvious.

Pocoyo

This religion and culture is not compatible with the western world.

We have a people that are sexist murderous and angry that believe in the mystical power of allah.

We have raped their countries waged war on them, installed puppet governments that are friendly to our multinational companies,When the people demonstrate we arm the same puppet state so they may oppress their own people.

So basically we bomb these already savage people rob them and steal their resources we basically piss them off as much as possible..... whats the next logical step....oh of course we give them green cards and invite them over here sure what could go wrong??

MightyMandarin

strelok wrote: »

well yeah, the mass shootings all take place where the federal government has made it a crime to carry weapons, precisely because there will be so many unarmed people

Nonsense.

Mass shootings happen in many different states with many different degrees of gun restrictions. Some states have very low restrictions, like Vermont, but haven't had many mass shootings of note, whereas many other states have had mass shootings where gun laws are strict, like Conneticut.

The moral of this story is that crazy people with guns will kill no matter what the gun laws are. However, if there weren't so many guns in a society, there wouldn't be as many shootings. This is evidenced by the fact that America leads the developed world by a country mile in the amount of homicides caused by guns.

If their laws were like that of the UK, Ireland, Canada from the beginning, a reasonable person would think that they'd be in a similar situation to us; i.e. no daily mass shootings.

stefanovich

Carlee Tart Wedding wrote: »

Get real. They had ****ing explosives strapped to them, they are not concerned about a random ID check.

And in any case if they're in a car, they need a driving licence, not a passport. Were any drivers licences found?

What's your point exactly? That it's a false flag attack?

Galwayguy35

La Fenetre wrote: »

Yeah like Israel and the USA are the societies other western countries should aspire to being like . . :rolleyes:

I think an argument could be made that if people could carry firearms like it's legal to do in America then lives might have been saved.

kleefarr

I have no doubt, the Eastern world extremists have declared war on the West and the West in general, with no discrimination, unless you are already a Muslim may be and spared.
Very trying times ahead, so may be it might be a good idea if we could all have some sort of personal protection.
If I am going to go in a similar way I sure as hell would like to take one or more of them with me.

It's one farked up situation.

La Fenetre

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think an argument could be made that if people could carry firearms like it's legal to do in America then lives might have been saved.

At the cost of the many more lives taken by gun lovers across America every year.
The solution to people killing people with guns is not giving people more guns.
And terrorists can simply switch back to bombing.
The proliferation of guns in amercia has not prevented terrorism there, both foreign and domestic, in the slightest.

Isaiah

whatismyname wrote: »

Jeez, you gave a warning of graphic photo, as did the website. It was fully my choice to look at it. But gotta say, that is horrific.

It's heartbreaking and makes my blood boil over.

And yet the liberals will look at this still figure out a way to blame anything but Islamists. They will blame Catholics, the Crusades, our treatment of Refugees but never ever the Islamists.

smash

stefanovich wrote: »

Good. People need to see what happened with their own eyes.

Some do and some don't. For most people, the death toll is enough to realise the scale and horror. But even while it's a horrific photo, society has become desensitised to it all because you see this in movies all the time. Also, online there's warnings. There's no warning when you open a paper.

Copa Mundial

The gunfire came straight out of the blue. Given the darkness and the crowd, no one person with a handgun was going to save the day there. The poor, poor people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTEzQpZgIMg

volchitsa

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think an argument could be made that if people could carry firearms like it's legal to do in America then lives might have been saved.

Small arms against Kalashnikovs? You're confusing action-movie heroes with real life!

Edit : and wasn't there at least one armed policeman on duty guarding Charlie. Hebdo? That's a trained man, on duty, prepared to react, and he couldn't stop armed men with heavy weapons, so what chance would there be in the darkness and panic when no-one quite know what was happening anyway? Not a chance.

leo2a6

kleefarr wrote: »

I have no doubt, the Eastern world extremists have declared war on the West and the West in general, with no discrimination, unless you are already a Muslim may be and spared.

Most victims of IS are muslims...

La Fenetre

Isaiah wrote: »

It's heartbreaking and makes my blood boil over.

And yet the liberals will look at this still figure out a way to blame anything but Islamists. They will blame Catholics, the Crusades, our treatment of Refugees but never ever the Islamists.

It's sad the amount of people who want to use any incidents like this to push their own agenda, from bigots pushing for more bigotry to gun lovers

kleefarr

Copa Mundial wrote: »

The gunfire came straight out of the blue. Given the darkness and the crowd, no one person with a handgun was going to save the day there. The poor, poor people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTEzQpZgIMg

Agreed, but in the other situations there would have been possibilities. The ones that were shooting from outside the restaurant window for example.
Better to have some chance than no chance at all, surely.

Pocoyo

Some random american...

''Believe me the European psyche is so well condition for attack there is no stopping it. You cannot even have a productive dialog on how to stop this as any and all conversation can be called racist and halted in its tracks. Which leads to inaction.
Game over.''

...........he couldnt be more right.

Isaiah

La Fenetre wrote: »

It's sad the amount of people who want to use any incidents like this to push their own agenda, from bigots pushing for more bigotry to gun lovers

It's sad that people refuse to admit we are at war. Not only in the middle East, but here in Europe, in our cities.

BorneTobyWilde

When the numbers become faces the angry will become greater.

My name is URL

Why are people even entertaining the discussion regarding gun laws. It's being shoehorned in by a nutjob who doesn't give a shit about anything other than his election campaign, and conservative US media mindlessly criticising France for its laws.

Fcuk those ignorant lunatics.

La Fenetre

Isaiah wrote: »

It's sad that people refuse to admit we are at war. Not only in the middle East, but here in Europe, in our cities.

Yeah ?

Funny I used to hear a similar mantra from both Irish terrorist supporters and British bigots after Irish terrorist murders in London as well. I didn't buy their shyte then either.

Pocoyo

Pocoyo wrote: »

Some random american...

''Believe me the European psyche is so well condition for attack there is no stopping it. You cannot even have a productive dialog on how to stop this as any and all conversation can be called racist and halted in its tracks. Which leads to inaction.
Game over.''

...........he couldnt be more right.

Maybe it takes events like this to enable people to "call a spade a spade" without the PC brigade shutting down the conversation for being "racist!".

If the elephant in the room is the cause they you have to discuss the elephant, not the mess on the floor.

It is western interference in the middle East that initially caused the problems, that has to be sorted out first, the migrants who won't assimilate into western society is a secondary issue.

volchitsa

Wurzelbert wrote: »

would have to research that, it has definitely happened in israel…and i would rather have a gun on me when the **** hits the fan than not have a gun on me…

The problem with that is it wouldn't just be you in that case though would it? Think of all those idiots who can't drive a flipping car safely - and you can be sure the very dumbest ones would be first in line to get a nice shiny gun to show off as well!

It's carnage in the USA, but far more often from stupid accidents than from deliberate shooters. The number of lives that could ever be saved by one random guy taking down a shooter is many many times outweighed by toddlers killing their best friends and stuff.

Isaiah

La Fenetre wrote: »

Yeah ?

Funny I used to hear a similar mantra from both Irish terrorist supporters and British bigots after Irish terrorist murders in London as well. I didn't buy their shyte then either.

So you don't believe Islamic extremists are carrying out a war with the west?

take everything

wendell borton wrote: »

I'm sure the dog is just picking up on what must be a fairly melancholic mood in Paris at the moment. But who knows? Given some of the ridiculous tweets and statements by some of our elected representatives maybe the dog has a better understanding of the situation.

So you think people are being ruff on her?

bilston

whatismyname wrote: »

Jeez, you gave a warning of graphic photo, as did the website. It was fully my choice to look at it. But gotta say, that is horrific.

Yeah, it was grim.

RIP to them all. Just awful.

In some ways everyone needs to see those pictures to see what this terrorism actually results in. But once seen it can't be unseen.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

Why are people even entertaining the discussion regarding gun laws. It's being shoehorned in by a nutjob who doesn't give a shit about anything other than his election campaign, and conservative US media mindlessly criticising France for its laws.

Fcuk those ignorant lunatics.

What happened in France has nothing to do with US gun laws and they know it!
So why even attempt to make a connection, what is it with people in the US!!!

wakka12

Wurzelbert wrote: »

but the donald has a point…in israel or even in texas those islamists wouldn’t have killed that many as they would have been shot themselves rather quickly…

Even if france did have relaxed gun control, do you think a bunch of college students, many of them foreign tourists, would have guns on their person at a rock concert?
Tight gun control saves many lives as you can clearly see from firearms fatalities statistics in the US. Having more guns around may save some lives in the event of a massacre or terrorist attack but they are not that common, and terrorists nearly always have the element of surprise and if they really want to kill people they will always be able to kill many before theyre stopped by a random person with a gun or law enforcement, no matter how well armed or prepared we are for it.

Wurzelbert

volchitsa wrote: »

Small arms against Kalashnikovs? You're confusing action-movie heroes with real life!

Edit : and wasn't there at least one armed policeman on duty guarding Charlie. Hebdo? That's a trained man, on duty, prepared to react, and he couldn't stop armed men with heavy weapons, so what chance would there be in the darkness and panic when no-one quite know what was happening anyway? Not a chance.

think we need to stop dwelling on the specific case of that shooting at a rock show and see the bigger picture when discussing gun laws…as i said before, those things do not always happen at gigs…and a well-placed pistol shot will teach anyone, no matter what superior gun he may be carrying…

Fleawuss

La Fenetre wrote: »

The reality of gun love

The claim of responsibility wasn't issued by the NRA. The pic is showing reality of the love of one interpretation of the Koran. Your post should read:

The reality of love of one version of Allah