Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Call Me Jimmy · 15-11-2015 02:46PM

Did he not get a bit of foresight or insight from the man upstairs that this might be wrong tho?

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 02:55PM

Custardpi wrote: »

I have already made one, you've simply missed or chosen to ignore it. My counter argument to your ridiculous tu quoque points is that there is a qualitative difference when it comes to Mohammed versus other historical figures. Mohammed is still held up as a beacon to the world in all respects by his followers & apologists. One is perfectly able to take a nuanced view of other people from history who have sh1tty morals by today's standards. The same is not true of Mohammed, as numerous writers, journalists & artists have discovered to their cost.

So 'nuanced' that we have to resort to using what was a very common practice at the time as the stick to beat him?
Bit hypocritical no?

There are many many many reasons to criticize Islam but making out that because Muhammad did something we in the 21st century find reprehensible but was common practice in the past is relevant nowis spurious at best.
Rather like arguing that because St Peter deserted his wife to follow Jesus it means all Roman Catholics believe in deserting their wives - proven by the fact that it still happens today. Ergo Roman Catholic are wife deserters or wife desertion enablers because the founder of their religion was a wife deserter. QED.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 02:59PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Did he not get a bit of foresight or insight from the man upstairs that this might be wrong tho?

Have you read the Old Testament or Talmud?

Man Up Stairs would have no problem at all at all with it.

Fleawuss · 15-11-2015 02:59PM

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Did he not get a bit of foresight or insight from the man upstairs that this might be wrong tho?

The man upstairs has a problematic relationship with wimmin. Allegedly.

Irish Praetorian · 15-11-2015 02:59PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So 'nuanced' that we have to resort to using what was a very common practice at the time as the stick to beat him?
Bit hypocritical no?

There are many many many reasons to criticize Islam but making out that because Muhammad did something we in the 21st century find reprehensible but was common practice in the past is relevant nowis spurious at best.
Rather like arguing that because St Peter deserted his wife to follow Jesus it means all Roman Catholics believe in deserting their wives - proven by the fact that it still happens today. Ergo Roman Catholic are wife deserters or wife desertion enablers because the founder of their religion was a wife deserter. QED.

Such as?

silverharp · 15-11-2015 03:03PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Have you read the Old Testament or Talmud?

Man Up Stairs would have no problem at all at all with it.

thats the hint though that its all nonsense, because there is no man upstairs

RobertKK · 15-11-2015 03:08PM

Samaris wrote: »

The responses to that insanely stoopid post are absolute gold though. Even in the middle of crisis and shock, there's some nonsense up with which people shall not put.

Great replies, even in times of darkness we need to laugh.

Isaiah · 15-11-2015 03:08PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Everyone applying for refugee status is checked.

Everyone gets a full 5-10 year background and criminal record check cross referenced with their country of origins police and government records?
I didn't think so.

They get asked name, fingerprint, passport, country of origin and then it's off you go - your in. Go live in a hotel until we decide your case in 3-5 years. And here are the details of where you collect your allowances. Here is a booklet explaining all of your entitlements and how to maximise them.

c montgomery · 15-11-2015 03:09PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Such as?

For producing murdering scum who kill and maim for the glory of Islam

Hachiko · 15-11-2015 03:12PM

all in the name of allauh akbar., these things are not normal beings, in an ideal world they would all be rounded up to a desolate island and left fend for themselves. Then no more suicide bombings, no more aimless killing and no more allauh akbar.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:13PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Such as?

Pretty much the same reasons as any organised religions can be criticised.

Treatment of women = RCC haven't covered themselves in glory there nor has Orthodox Judaism, Hinduism....Amish...

Sectarian Wars - not confined to Islam by any means, parts of the world right now where Buddhists and Hindus are battering each other like billy-oh and the Catholics Vs Protestants still flairs up.

Like Christianity there are many different 'kinds' of Islam so blanket criticisms are too broad but also like Christianity they have their extreme lunatic fringe. Their's commits atrocities and acts of terror and are well funded.
Christianity's calls for homosexuals to be stoned to death and one of them is running for political office in the most powerful and influential Western nation. http://theweek.com/speedreads/451822/oklahoma-gop-candidate-suggests-ok-stone-gay-people-death

Religions - nasty businesses imho - ALL religions.

goal_kicker · 15-11-2015 03:16PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pretty much the same reasons as any organised religions can be criticised.

Treatment of women = RCC haven't covered themselves in glory there nor has Orthodox Judaism, Hinduism....Amish...

Sectarian Wars - not confined to Islam by any means, parts of the world right now where Buddhists and Hindus are battering each other like billy-oh and the Catholics Vs Protestants still flairs up.

Like Christianity there are many different 'kinds' of Islam so blanket criticisms are too broad but also like Christianity they have their extreme lunatic fringe. Their's commits atrocities and acts of terror and are well funded.
Christianity's calls for homosexuals to be stoned to death and one of them is running to be leader of the most powerful and influential Western nation.

Religions - nasty businesses imho - ALL religions.

which of the GOP canditates has called for the stoning of gays ?

i know trump is an ah0le of epic proportions but i dont recall him saying anything like this

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:16PM

Isaiah wrote: »

Everyone gets a full 5-10 year background and criminal record check cross referenced with their country of origins police and government records?
I didn't think so.

They get asked name, fingerprint, passport, country of origin and then it's off you go - your in. Go live in a hotel until we decide your case in 3-5 years. And here are the details of where you collect your allowances. Here is a booklet explaining all of your entitlements and how to maximise them.

You do know there is a civil war going on in Syria and much much destruction?

Why don't we ask them to bring all their great-grandparents to vouch for them too - it's about as practical as what you think should happen.

The fact that our bureaucracy is inefficient isn't their fault - that;s our fault.

whatever_ · 15-11-2015 03:17PM

Hachiko wrote: »

all in the name of allauh akbar., these things are not normal beings, in an ideal world they would all be rounded up to a desolate island and left fend for themselves. Then no more suicide bombings, no more aimless killing and no more allauh akbar.

If only they could catch this 'Allahu Akbar' guy ...

Custardpi · 15-11-2015 03:17PM

As nutty as some of the budding candidates for the Presidency across the pond are I can't recall any of them actually advocating the lapidation of anyone. Who are you speaking of specifically?

Irish Praetorian · 15-11-2015 03:17PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pretty much the same reasons as any organised religions can be criticised.

Treatment of women = RCC haven't covered themselves in glory there nor has Orthodox Judaism, Hinduism....Amish...

Sectarian Wars - not confined to Islam by any means, parts of the world right now where Buddhists and Hindus are battering each other like billy-oh and the Catholics Vs Protestants still flairs up.

Like Christianity there are many different 'kinds' of Islam so blanket criticisms are too broad but also like Christianity they have their extreme lunatic fringe. Their's commits atrocities and acts of terror and are well funded.
Christianity's calls for homosexuals to be stoned to death and one of them is running to be leader of the most powerful and influential Western nation.

Religions - nasty businesses imho - ALL religions.

Fair enough then, so really it's all no different than the Catholic Church and with a few hard hitting documentaries we can expect the problem to go away?

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:22PM

goal_kicker wrote: »

which of the GOP canditates has called for the stoning of gays ?

i know trump is an ah0le of epic proportions but i dont recall him saying anything like this

Scott Esk
My mistake - he's running for State Legislature - have amended my post to correct mistake.

http://theweek.com/speedreads/451822/oklahoma-gop-candidate-suggests-ok-stone-gay-people-death

Carson just trots out the same arguments were heard here from the Anti-SSM crowd (comparisons to bestiality etc etc) and as we all know tose arguments were not even a teeny bit homophobic.

Irish Praetorian · 15-11-2015 03:23PM

Isaiah wrote: »

Terrorist shootings, bombing crowds in the middle east, bombing marathon runners, bombing football games, suicide attacks, ramming cars into crowds in Israel, lobbying governments against free speech, lobbying to bring in Sharia, trying to implement Sharia on UK streets, Beheadings, Imprisoning westerners for years before executing them, Burning a westerner alive in a cage, treating their women as property, female subservience to men, females being forced to cover up, females being doused in acid, females being stoned to death for just being accused of adultery, Females not being allowed to drive cars, flying airplanes into buildings, holding up theatre's and murdering dozens in France and Previously Russia, Bombing Moscow Airport, Bombing London's underground, Bombing London Buses, Bombing Russian buses, Exploding an airliner above Scotland and looking increasingly like another over Egypt as well. Preaching hatred in Islamic schools and Mosques in European cities and accusing ANYONE who doesn’t turn a blind eye to the above of being a racist.

Shall I go on?

The question wasn't really directed at you, either literally or rhetorically, I was trying to get a follow up on 'criticism of Islam' from people who appear to spend quite a few forum posts defending it.

Isaiah · 15-11-2015 03:25PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Such as?

Terrorist shootings, bombing crowds in the middle east, bombing marathon runners, bombing football games, suicide attacks, ramming cars into crowds in Israel, lobbying governments against free speech, lobbying to bring in Sharia, trying to implement Sharia on UK streets, Beheadings, Imprisoning westerners for years before executing them, Burning a westerner alive in a cage, treating their women as property, female subservience to men, females being forced to cover up, females being doused in acid, females being stoned to death for just being accused of adultery, Females not being allowed to drive cars, flying airplanes into buildings, holding up theatre's and murdering dozens in France and Previously Russia, Bombing Moscow Airport, Bombing London's underground, Bombing London Buses, Bombing Russian buses, Supplying the worlds heroine trade, The Beslan school siege, exploding an airliner above Scotland and looking increasingly like another over Egypt as well, murdering comic book writers, Preaching hatred in Islamic schools and Mosques in European cities and accusing ANYONE who doesn’t turn a blind eye to the above of being a racist and if that doesn't work then resorting to death threats.

Shall I go on?

Isaiah · 15-11-2015 03:25PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Such as?

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

The question wasn't really directed at you, either literally or rhetorically, I was trying to get a follow up on 'criticism of Islam' from people who appear to spend quite a few forum posts defending it.

My apologies.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:27PM

whatever_ wrote: »

If only they could catch this 'Allahu Akbar' guy ...

Oh don't - Great-Aunt of mine while in Jerusalem thought the call to prayer was a parent calling their son for his meals so on the third day she flung open the window and in her best Cork roared ' Allah ya little bollix, will you fecking go home!'

My Grandmother who was with her didn't know whether to laugh, s*it or run.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:29PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Fair enough then, so really it's all no different than the Catholic Church and with a few hard hitting documentaries we can expect the problem to go away?

If you think that's what broke the power of the RCC you must not be familiar with events in the hundreds of years following the Reformation...

Irish Praetorian · 15-11-2015 03:30PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If you think that's what broke the power of the RCC you must not be familiar with events in the hundreds of years following the Reformation...

If you think the Roman Catholic Church was broken in power in this country up until relatively recently, you must not have been following some of the scandals over the past few years.

Isaiah · 15-11-2015 03:30PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

You do know there is a civil war going on in Syria and much much destruction?

Why don't we ask them to bring all their great-grandparents to vouch for them too - it's about as practical as what you think should happen.

The fact that our bureaucracy is inefficient isn't their fault - that;s our fault.

I agree that we need some way of recieving Syrians. We should set up a large camp on an island somewhere, where they can be safe and fed until this war is over. We can ask the Saudis to help fund it all.

Lockstep · 15-11-2015 03:33PM

Looks like the Syrian passports found are fake
At any rate, you have to question why a terrorist thinks to bring their passport when they know they'll be killed.

Autonomous Cowherd · 15-11-2015 03:33PM

Worthwhile article... ''We are in Pitiless Times''.

Not a crackpot, he is a historian and academic. Vijay Prashad.

https://opendemocracy.net/vijay-prashad/we-are-in-pitiless-times

Fleawuss · 15-11-2015 03:34PM

A secular humanist response to Paris mass murders:
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/news/center_for_inquiry_statement_on_paris_attacks_humanity_is_better_than_this/

Isaiah · 15-11-2015 03:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Pretty much the same reasons as any organised religions can be criticised.

Treatment of women = RCC haven't covered themselves in glory there nor has Orthodox Judaism, Hinduism....Amish...

Sectarian Wars - not confined to Islam by any means, parts of the world right now where Buddhists and Hindus are battering each other like billy-oh and the Catholics Vs Protestants still flairs up.

Like Christianity there are many different 'kinds' of Islam so blanket criticisms are too broad but also like Christianity they have their extreme lunatic fringe. Their's commits atrocities and acts of terror and are well funded.
Christianity's calls for homosexuals to be stoned to death and one of them is running for political office in the most powerful and influential Western nation. http://theweek.com/speedreads/451822/oklahoma-gop-candidate-suggests-ok-stone-gay-people-death

Religions - nasty businesses imho - ALL religions.

There are many faults within organised Christian religions but there is nothing wrong with people having different beliefs. If you think there are then you are no better than the religious fundementalists that believe everyone who doesnt believe exactly what they do is wrong and dangerous.

Now, the issue at hand here is not religion, it's Islamic fundementalists.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:36PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

The question wasn't really directed at you, either literally or rhetorically, I was trying to get a follow up on 'criticism of Islam' from people who appear to spend quite a few forum posts defending it.

That me?

Please show me where I defended Islam?

Is saying 'Not all Muslims are terrorists' defending Islam?
Is saying 'Muhammad was an old goat in a time period when Old Goats ruled' defending Islam?
Was it when I said 'not all refugees from Syria are ISIS members'?

Perhaps not roaring 'ALL Muslims are animals and we should nuke the ME and kill them ALL' is now defined as defending Islam?

Given I am not only an atheist but also someone who is against all organised religion I would really like to see where I defended a religion so linky please.

Bannasidhe · 15-11-2015 03:38PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

If you think the Roman Catholic Church was broken in power in this country up until relatively recently, you must not have been following some of the scandals over the past few years.

Given that Ireland is one very small country in a big world I try to not be parochial when looking at world events.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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