Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

Ace2007 · 14-11-2015 08:03PM

Custardpi wrote: »

Sadly in any war innocent people will die, regardless of how just the cause. While rushing into war without a good plan (something which I'm far from convinced Western countries possess) obviously isn't the solution simply sitting idly by & doing nothing or hoping that fanatical mass murderers can be reasoned with may ultimately result in even more deaths.

stefanovich wrote: »

Yeah, difficult to avoid civilian casualties. Isn't that always the case in war though. Unfortunately these ***** aren't wearing a uniform.

But from the way people are speaking on here and in other forms, it is perceived as acceptable for the west to entered these countries and blow them to bits in the hope of killing those responsible, without thinking of those that would die.

However if they same approach was adopted at home - there would be widespread out cry from everyone.

Let's say theres a building in Iraq, with a cell of ISIS soldiers - folk would be saying they should bomb the building and everything around it.

If the same intelligence found a cell of ISIS soldiers in Dublin 6, would you aceept the same approach to bomb the buildings and everything around it and with hell to innocent people dying, because it will get the targets?

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 08:04PM

The Pope is saying the attack is part of the Third World War.

Uncle Ben · 14-11-2015 08:04PM

A Primal Nut wrote: »

Did you see the statement of admission from ISIS? They clearly said they struck these locations because they thought the gatherings (for concerts, etc) were immoral.

They've obviously never heard of electric picnic so. Now that's immoral ðŸ˜Š

BlaasForRafa · 14-11-2015 08:04PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

No.

I am simply saying I find it a bit too convenient so it should be looked at.
Could be they did put them down.
I don't know.

You need to get a new tinfoil hat. Quit trying to imply that there is some kind of conspiracy, until there is information otherwise then occams razor applies.

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 08:05PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

it would take hundreds of G to destroy a passport, It's small and condensed. Why do people have a hard time grasping this. Depending on the explosive used Nothing tends to vaporise.

Thankfully they had no nukes.

dm1979 · 14-11-2015 08:06PM

no words, just simply no words.

Sunflower 27 · 14-11-2015 08:06PM

stefanovich wrote: »

Cover? Are you joking? Isis admitted responsibility for this attack. The only sane response is to do their utmost to destroy them. The west should annihilate these people in Syria and Iraq.

Do you really think it is as easy as going in and bombing. These guys are everywhere, not just sitting around in Syria.

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 08:07PM

conorhal wrote: »

Carrying identification is a mandatory requirement in France. It seems that some of the attackers were Belgian and Syrian and would have needed to carry passports as they would not have had French national identity cards otherwise they risked being detained.

Weren't these the ones who had tickets to enter the stadium? It's possible they needed ID to get in or to collect their tickets.

SpaceSasqwatch · 14-11-2015 08:08PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The Pope is saying the attack is part of the Third World War.

Who cares what the chief zombie worshipper has to say.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 08:08PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The Pope is saying the attack is part of the Third World War.

He also condoned the charlie hebdo attacks, using some analogy about insulting his mother and punching people.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 08:11PM

Ace2007 wrote: »

But from the way people are speaking on here and in other forms, it is perceived as acceptable for the west to entered these countries and blow them to bits in the hope of killing those responsible, without thinking of those that would die.

However if they same approach was adopted at home - there would be widespread out cry from everyone.

Let's say theres a building in Iraq, with a cell of ISIS soldiers - folk would be saying they should bomb the building and everything around it.

If the same intelligence found a cell of ISIS soldiers in Dublin 6, would you aceept the same approach to bomb the buildings and everything around it and with hell to innocent people dying, because it will get the targets?

It's a teensy bit easier to operate on the ground in a country like Ireland than it is in ISIS controlled Iraq. If Dublin had somehow fallen to Islamists & the black flag was flying over Leinster House then yes it's quite possible that extreme measures would be considered. Assuming that the Gardai & army controled Ireland in the scenario you outline however a normal ground assault, possibly involving the ERU or Army Ranger Wing would probably be more likely.

wet_runner · 14-11-2015 08:11PM

as its been revealed that one of the killers came to europe last month as a refugee

i hope FG have the cop on to take this opportunity to now rule out this country taking in any refugees , labour will blow a gasket but the electorate will warmly greet such a step

Tombi! · 14-11-2015 08:11PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The Pope is saying the attack is part of the Third World War.

Y'got a link to that? Not accusing you of lying but I find that a bit disturbing

A Primal Nut · 14-11-2015 08:11PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Not really. Christians indoctrinate with great zeal, their children, while they are still to young to know what is going on or be capable of choosing their own beliefs.
Islam is as bad of course. All religions use the same ploy.

For one thing, Islam has the death penalty for apostasy, something many Muslims support:

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 08:11PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

He also condoned the charlie hebdo attacks, using some analogy about insulting his mother and punching people.

He didn't condone the violence, more a 'if you poke a bear...'

He condemned the violence from last night too.

freddiek · 14-11-2015 08:12PM

this thread lol. so many wildly diverging opinions.

Canadel · 14-11-2015 08:13PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

He also condoned the charlie hebdo attacks, using some analogy about insulting his mother and punching people.

And received near unanimous support on a thread here in after hours for his comments if I remember correctly, which I do, because I was one of the few who dared criticise a pope who at the time was cleverly convincing the world that he was changing the catholic church for the better. True colours always reveal themselves in the end.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 08:13PM

RobertKK wrote: »

He didn't condone the violence, more a 'if you poke a bear...'

He condemned the violence from last night too.

Why would a bear care what one said about a sky wizard from a book ? Replace the word Jesus with harry potter in the bible and it still makes the same sense.

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 08:14PM

In a little over a week, ISIS have blown a plane up, attacked Lebanon and France.
Around 400 dead.

Fleawuss · 14-11-2015 08:15PM

SpaceSasqwatch wrote: »

Who cares what the chief zombie worshipper has to say.

A considerable number of posters here! Do your own research!

RobertKK · 14-11-2015 08:16PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why would a bear care what one said about a sky wizard from a book ? Replace the word Jesus with harry potter in the bible and it still makes the same sense.

It is a saying, some of us remember when Salman Rushdie was the person doing the poking and had a fatwa declared against him.

Sunflower 27 · 14-11-2015 08:16PM

RobertKK wrote: »

In a little over a week, ISIS have blown a plane up, attacked Lebanon and France.
Around 400 dead.

And still people think the West can just go in and wipe them out. These monsters have support. Even westerners have joined their crusade.
Although not much is said about that on here.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 14-11-2015 08:17PM

conorhal wrote: »

Carrying identification is a mandatory requirement in France. It seems that some of the attackers were Belgian and Syrian and would have needed to carry passports as they would not have had French national identity cards otherwise they risked being detained.

Yea, I mean the automatic weapons they were carrying were grand but no doubt they were mega concerned about not having a valid passport on them if they were ID checked.

darkpagandeath · 14-11-2015 08:18PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

And still people think the West can just go in and wipe them out. These monsters have support. Even westerners have joined their crusade.
Although not much is said about that on here.

Careful now one will be told a couple of thousand westerners can't really do much damage. Even thought it was just 8 in France.

IrishTrajan · 14-11-2015 08:18PM

Custardpi wrote: »

It's a teensy bit easier to operate on the ground in a country like Ireland than it is in ISIS controlled Iraq. If Dublin had somehow fallen to Islamists & the black flag was flying over Leinster House then yes it's quite possible that extreme measures would be considered. Assuming that the Gardai & army controled Ireland in the scenario you outline however a normal ground assault, possibly involving the ERU or Army Ranger Wing would probably be more likely.

Just a pedantic point, but if Dublin "fell to Islamists", it wouldn't be retaken by us. The Irish Army doesn't have enough funding to fight any sort of a meaningful war. We'd have to go to the British with our caps in our hands and ask them to do it for us.

Fleawuss · 14-11-2015 08:19PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

it would take hundreds of G to destroy a passport, It's small and condensed. Why do people have a hard time grasping this. Depending on the explosive used Nothing tends to vaporise.

I assume it's a rhetorical question but anyway: they have a hard time grasping it because if it actually belongs to one of the murderers their beliefs about refugees are threatened.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 08:19PM

RobertKK wrote: »

He didn't condone the violence, more a 'if you poke a bear...'

He condemned the violence from last night too.

Which basically lets Islamists off the hook by depicting them as uncontrollable animals, incapable of responding to criticism by anything other than violence. Sure all that rationalism, proportionality etc stuff is only for us Westerners. Those poor Muslims wouldn't understand it. Effectively an abandonment of hope & an utterly pessimistic view of the intellect of a large section of humanity.

Spanish Eyes · 14-11-2015 08:21PM

Any comment from the Immigration Tsar in Chief Mr. Sutherland on the matter?

Nah, didn't think so.

There will be a fight back re immigration after this. No longer will we be fooled by zombies with open arms who will never have to personally reap the consequences of open borders. It's over soon.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 08:21PM

IrishTrajan wrote: »

Just a pedantic point, but if Dublin "fell to Islamists", it wouldn't be retaken by us. The Irish Army doesn't have enough funding to fight any sort of a meaningful war. We'd have to go to the British with our caps in our hands and ask them to do it for us.

To be clear I wasn't actually predicting this happening any time soon so didn't feel the need to exactly specify the nature of such a conflict. Just needed to give a hypotethical scenario that actually matched that of an attack in Iraq.

Spanish Eyes · 14-11-2015 08:22PM

RobertKK wrote: »

The Pope is saying the attack is part of the Third World War.

I hope we stay neutral so.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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