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Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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Comments

  • #3062
    MS1962
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭MS1962


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    As opposed to hate speech Pastor McConnell's real God?

    That's some stupid shit that is.

    The Pastor believes in Jesus Christ. Perhaps you don't believe in the Christian Faith, but everyone acknowledges that the Lord was a good man, Who loved His enemies and prayed for them, and wanted no action taken against them by His followers. Islam's founder had his enemies massacred. I think there is a difference there, no?


  • #3063
    Uncle Ben
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭Uncle Ben


    Billy86 wrote: »
    You do realise that Poland and Hungary have not banned all Muslims... right?

    Correct. I'm talking about controls.


  • #3064
    tigger123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,615 ✭✭✭tigger123


    The West is going to have to take action against the Islamic State. Can't let this kind of thing continue to happen. I was against the war in Afghanistan and Iraq, but something needs to be done here.


  • #3065
    thedumbone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭thedumbone


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    As opposed to hate speaker Pastor McConnell's real God?

    That's some stupid shit that is.

    hate speech
    or
    murders/rape/suicide bomb

    pick one


  • #3066
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 55,028 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    There just has to be a lot of other terrorists involved in setting up this attack.
    People who provided transport, explosives, guns, money, shelter, information etc.
    I wouldn't be a all surprised if this is just the start of a new campaign.


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  • #3067
    Isaiah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    JamboMac wrote: »
    So everybody thinks that terrorists came in with the refugees, it would be fairly easy for them to just fly or other forms of arrival, they realistically would be very difficult to know and for those known terrorists. Their would be hundreds of unknown, where did they get the weapons and explosives.

    I'm sure refugees weren't allowed carry automatic weapons across borders, I find it hard to believe these where in the refugees which just crossed the borders.

    They would need a visa to fly into France or the EU. There is no way in hell a visa would be granted to a Syrian at this time. So there was only one other way in ; with the migrants.

    The guns would be smuggled. Most likely through the substantial French Algerian populations.


  • #3068
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    RobertKK wrote: »
    It was an Al Qaeda linked group in January who attacked Paris, they had serious weaponry at their disposal.

    That is another question, who is arming these people?

    A number of places, in large part the Saudi's, who in turn are in large part funded by the US & Western governments, who in turn are of course very vocally against ISIS. It's a horrible merry-go-round of ridiculousness.


  • #3069
    MS1962
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭MS1962


    My name is URL wrote: »
    What more do you want them to do other than condemn it?

    Should they all just say fcuk it and become atheist or convert to another religion because terrorists use Islam as an excuse or reason to kill and maim?

    What about when Christian groups use the bible to persecute, kill or lock up people? Should all Christians be expected to forego on their faith?

    What an absolute load of bollix you're talking

    The difference is, the New Testament on which the Christian Faith is primarily based, contains no consent to kill anyone, and the Old Testament is understood in the context in which it was written, again, cannot be used to justify killing the innocent. The Koran, on the contrary, justifies the killing of the unbelievers. The founder of that religion killed many, many people. How many people did Jesus kill?


  • #3070
    Custardpi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Very Bored wrote: »
    The fact that Islam states that Muslims MUST respect people of scripture would point to it being those living here peaceably.
    That's a liberal interpretation of Islamic scripture which is by no means universally shared unfortunately.
    On the other hand, if people in this part of the world would get their heads out of their a***s and realise that the best way of defeating ISIS would be to demand that Western governments in turn get their heads out of their a***s and start properly supporting the Kurds, the one group that is kicking the s**t out of ISIS then maybe we'd get somewhere.

    Agreed, but properly supporting the Kurds means ditching the Turks who are more important to NATO etc. So we'll continue to muddle along & give piecemeal support to Kurdish/Yazidi forces while the Turks bomb them & hope that the wider Western backed "moderate" rebels somehow save the day.


  • #3071
    Orangebrigade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Orangebrigade


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    As opposed to hate speaker Pastor McConnell's real God?

    That's some stupid shit that is.
    After what the world saw last night, millions of people will be agreeing with every word he said. It was a scene from hell if you believe in such things.


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  • #3072
    johnmcdnl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    Facekicking 2 The Future wrote: »
    Ironic that for all their "solidarity" there aren't hundred of pictures online of Muslim countries hosting rallies against ISIS and burning ISIS flags and flying French colors. Would be great if some of the leaders, both political and spiritual, from the Arab Muslim world got on television and expressed their condolences and called for an end to this and laid out how these "imposters posing as Muslims" are bringing shame and ridicule on the religion of Islam. Then went out and did something about it. Well I need to stop dreaming and get back to work.

    Why do we have to fight the "extremists"?

    The political leaders are coming out and giving statements along the line you're looking for

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/reaction-world-paris-attacks-35195752

    The ruler of tiny Kuwait, emir Sheikh Sabah Al Ahmad Al Sabah, says in a statement that he offered his condolences, while stressing that "these criminal acts of terrorism ... run counter to all teachings of holy faith and humanitarian values."

    http://news.yahoo.com/paris-attacks-violation-religions-saudi-fm-075311537.html

    The "heinous" Paris attacks are a violation of all religions and underline the need to intensify efforts against "terrorism", Saudi Arabia's foreign minister said Saturday as he arrived in Vienna for talks on ending Syria's civil war.


  • #3073
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,563 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    MS1962 wrote: »
    The difference is, the New Testament on which the Christian Faith is primarily based, contains no consent to kill anyone, and the Old Testament is understood in the context in which it was written, again, cannot be used to justify killing the innocent. The Koran, on the contrary, justifies the killing of the unbelievers. The founder of that religion killed many, many people. How many people did Jesus kill?

    I'm not going to get into an argument about which potentially fictional character killed more people, as that would be absurd.

    All religious 'teachings' are open to interpretation. There are people who interpret both Chrisianity and Islam in ways which they view as justification to hurt, kill, oppress, or persecute others.


  • #3074
    corner of hells
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Isaiah wrote: »
    They would need a visa to fly into France or the EU. There is no way in hell a visa would be granted to a Syrian at this time. So there was only one other way in ; with the migrants.

    The guns would be smuggled. Most likely through the substantial French Algerian populations.

    Those pesky French Algerians , nothing like a generalised comment to tar and feather a large section of a population in one go.


  • #3075
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    MS1962 wrote: »
    The Pastor believes in Jesus Christ.

    I don't care.
    Perhaps you don't believe in the Christian Faith, but everyone acknowledges that the Lord was a good man, Who loved His enemies and prayed for them, and wanted no action taken against them by His followers.

    http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

    Take you pick of vileness from that list of 'Christian goodness'.
    Islam's founder had his enemies massacred. I think there is a difference there, no?

    I don't care to debate you on yours any any other franchise of utter bullshit to be honest.


  • #3076
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    walshyn93 wrote: »
    They're not brainwashed. They're soldiers like that of any other army and like any army they believe they are right. Time to stop dismissing these people as madmen. Brainwashing is an extremely difficult process that involves quite a bit more than a few youtube videos. They haven't been brainwashed by Islamists. They've simply been recruited. That's the worrying thing.

    Whatever about the definition of brainwashed, the bottom line is that they are doped up on religion that defies any rationale or reason.
    No crazy religion, no crazies strapping bombs to themselves taking people others with them to smithereens.

    People are the same the world over. Some have the misfortune to be brought up on ignorant medieval religions and superstitions. They are to be pitied. And curing them of their delusions is really the only way to get to the heart of the matter and avoid this mayhem.

    I didnt really mind too much when they were only killing themselves over it. But once they start exporting it to my front door to people who want no part of bat crazy religious conflict, it time to call a spade a spade. Defending it on the grounds of religious tolerance or rights to personal belief is only perpetuating the nonsense.


  • #3077
    MS1962
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭MS1962


    My name is URL wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into an argument about which potentially fictional character killed more people, as that would be absurd.

    All religious 'teachings' are open to interpretation. There are people who interpret both Chrisianity and Islam in ways which they view as justification to hurt, kill, oppress, or persecute others.

    You missed the point: Jesus was (IS) definitely a man of peace and love. Muhamoud was definitely a man of violence and abuse on a large scale. This is the starting point of each religion. Each man is to be emulated by the faithful followers of each religion. DO you understand?


  • #3078
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Uncle Ben wrote: »
    Correct. I'm talking about controls.

    Those types of controls won't mean much when they will play a huge role in helping ISIS and whoever their successors are to radicalise those already there, and those who they can then get to go there. Lower quantity sure, but much higher "quality" in terms of a breeding ground.


  • #3079
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    The refugees are fleeing to get away from these types of scum.
    Unfortunately, they're tagging along with the "genuine" refugees.


  • #3080
    MS1962
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭MS1962


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    I don't care.


    I don't care to debate you on your own brand of utter bullshit to be honest.

    You are the kind of person who has screwed over Europe because your liberal head is buried deep in the sand. It is precisely this kind of thinking that tells us that Islam is peace even as our people are butchered in the streets. Reminds me of the scene from Naked Gun, nothing to see here!


  • #3081
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    MS1962 wrote: »
    The difference is, the New Testament on which the Christian Faith is primarily based, contains no consent to kill anyone, and the Old Testament is understood in the context in which it was written, again, cannot be used to justify killing the innocent. The Koran, on the contrary, justifies the killing of the unbelievers. The founder of that religion killed many, many people. How many people did Jesus kill?
    Jesus did not 'find' Christianity, so that is a poor comparison. You can look to God though, who killed huge numbers of people in the Old Testament, for a better comparison.


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  • #3082
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,508 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    So does anyone have any actual updates?


  • #3083
    Peist2007
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Peist2007


    corner of hells wrote: »
    I don't think you could say they are brainwashed, but what's concerning is that there are individuals with the charisma and wherewithal to manage to convince disenfranchised young men that their lives would be better committing acts like this and that ultimately losing their lives is for some greater good.

    Nor do I believe that most soldiers willingly want to die .

    They are angry. And that makes it easy for the puppeteers to use Islam to get them to act on that anger.


  • #3084
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    thedumbone wrote: »
    hate speech or murders/rape/suicide bomb

    pick one

    That's just a stupid false dilemma. Cancer or rabies?
    Orangebrigade wrote: »
    After what the world saw last night, millions of people will be agreeing with every word he said.

    The world will better place when we learn to ignore people like McConnell and his counterparts across the world who believe their brand of bullshit is the only true one.


  • #3085
    Isaiah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    MS1962 wrote: »
    You missed the point: Jesus was (IS) definitely a man of peace and love. Muhamoud was definitely a man of violence and abuse on a large scale. This is the starting point of each religion. Each man is to be emulated by the faithful followers of each religion. DO you understand?

    They won't understand because they choose to ignore your very valid points.

    Liberalist tactics are to ignore specific evidence that proves that they are wrong in an argument and instead to provide vague rethorical responses.


  • #3086
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    MS1962 wrote: »
    You missed the point: Jesus was (IS) definitely a man of peace and love. Muhamoud was definitely a man of violence and abuse on a large scale. This is the starting point of each religion. Each man is to be emulated by the faithful followers of each religion. DO you understand?

    But.... There's Christians who live by "what would Jesus do" on a large scale. The Muslims who live by "what would Muhammad do" are the minority.

    Then again, like the video earlier on mentioned, the majority are irrelevant!


  • #3087
    Orangebrigade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭Orangebrigade


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    That's just a stupid false dilemma. Cancer or rabies?



    The world will better place when we learn to ignore people like McConnell and his counterparts across the world who believe their brand of bullshit is the only true one.
    I'm an Atheist and think his general point was true about Islam.


  • #3088
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,613 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Jesus did not 'find' Christianity, so that is a poor comparison. You can look to God though, who killed huge numbers of people in the Old Testament, for a better comparison.

    God in the Old Testament is the same God for both Christians and Muslims.


  • #3089
    Isaiah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭Isaiah


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    God in the Old Testament is the same God for both Christians and Muslims.

    Incorrect. God in the old testament is the same for Christians and Jews. It is highly edited and changed beyond recognition in Islam.


  • #3090
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Any chance of AH theologians taking their discussions to a new thread?

    This one is cluttered up and hard to read.


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  • #3091
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,115 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    MS1962 wrote: »
    You are the kind of person who has screwed over Europe because your liberal head is buried deep in the sand.

    Oh no! The brainless tropes have been wheeled out. Europe is a relatively great place precisely because it's liberal and progressive and not because of people like Pastor McConnell.

    You're not here because you care about the victims of last night's horror -you're here because you've got a hard-on for Christianity and a hate of 'false gods'.

    What century are you posting from?


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