Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

jon1981 · 14-11-2015 01:49PM

It's funny how Ireland, NI and the UK troubles have been brought up in comparison. Correct me if I'm wrong, but crux of the matter was British rule and the search for a united Ireland leading to terrorist activity to achieve the goals of the various factions...etc.

It was never a world domination/destroy the west/ eradicate non believers agenda... these guys are bringing the fight EVERYWHERE! They are blowing up their own ppl sure!!

hatrickpatrick · 14-11-2015 01:50PM

walshyn93 wrote: »

Not if you use the content in conjunction with the actions of its followers. The followers of Islam are blowing up Paris and the followers of Christianity are standing out in the cold with "refugee welcome" signs.

The other posters weren't using context, they were simply saying "violent text = violent religion". Which is automatic hypocrisy if they focus only on one religion.

Some followers of Islam are blowing stuff up, most are not.
Some followers of Christianity are picketing funerals with signs saying "God hates fags" and bombing abortion clinics, most are not.
Some followers of Judaism are using religion to justify stealing land from their neighbours, most are not.

The hypocrisy lies in the fact that one of the three is having its entire support base tarred with one brush.

And before you say anything, western military actions are not guided by religion in any way shape or form. In fact if it transpired it were I'm sure there'd be resignations and inquiries conducted.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/bush-god-told-me-to-invade-iraq-317805.html

You were saying?

Ctrl Alt Delete · 14-11-2015 01:52PM

c montgomery wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it may be.

I guess I am 100% wrong. I mean no cause during the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s has gone to a different country to enhance their campaign.

Certainly not least the IRA, Basque or Chechens for example :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Rightwing · 14-11-2015 01:52PM

My name is URL wrote: »

So your plan to prevent the west from becoming an oppressive place for women like certain ME countries, is to make it an oppressive place for women, where they are not allowed to dress as they please?

Just about sums up the illogical mindsets of the uber-reactionaries

We need to put things in prespective here. What's the great need to have yourself covered up like a thug in a hoodie where no one can identify you ?

Extremists are challenging our way of life, and they are winning.

Time for the pc folk to 'téigh a chodladh'

BoJack Horseman · 14-11-2015 01:52PM

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Just watched the video on Sky that was filmed by a journalist at the back of the theatre. ****! It's harrowing. A woman hanging onto a rail for dear life, innocent people gunned down below her.

The journalist who filmed it was in an upstairs window in a building opposite. He was also subsequently shot.

Indeed, its an incredible video for sure.

walshyn93 · 14-11-2015 01:52PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

Umm... your naive if you think this attack was organised within the last few months or by new arrivals. The guys were likely here a lot longer -- maybe even born in France and radicalised there.

Most of Angela's migrants haven't arrived yet either. Your post is highly reactionary nonsense -- there were jihadists in europe for years before Merkel even got into power. We all unfortunately knew this. This attack was going to happen anyways.

They've plenty of recruits as is -- migrants not withstanding.

Yeah but what about when Angelas migrants get settled in for a few years just like the lads who carried out these attacks? No serious person is suggesting that migrants carried this out. Serious people are concerned that increasing the population of disaffected Muslim youth will only increase the odds of this happening again.

Harry Palmr · 14-11-2015 01:52PM

Wibbs wrote: »

Bad plan. That stuff has a nasty habit of coming back to bite us. The west backed the valiant mujahideen in Afghanistan and if you're of a certain age you likely loved watching Sandy Gall's reports of their successes against the Soviets. And we got the Taliban and Al Qaeda back for our trouble.

The Kurds and the Mujahideen are really not comparable. The former are nationalists who want to create their own state the latter were a rag bag fanatics from several places back by various sources (esp the Saudis) who just happened to be a handy bulwark for the USA. It would only be later they would reform as the Taliban at which point the fundamentalist ideology instilled by Saudi Wahhabi "schools" became apparent.

The Kurds only extremism is to form a homeland, and even there not all are demanding full independence, just peace and autonomy. They are certainly not interested in exporting terror against the west, and the religious mix within Kurdish Islam seems to negate the likelihood of Wahhabi style fundamentalism anyway.

SEPT 23 1989 · 14-11-2015 01:53PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

racism is power + privilege

Not much power trapped in a music hall staring down the barrel of an AK47

not yet · 14-11-2015 01:53PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

you're not even hiding your racism any more consider yourself reported

And you consider yourself hashtagged..

CptMackey · 14-11-2015 01:53PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

It will incite racist hate speech, Islam is the victim here it will be under attack now because of these unfortunate events, as well as the fact that one of the attackers was confirmed to be syrian it will lead people to reject refugees from here which is dangerously racist. we need to ignore and resist the people speaking out against islam, migration and multiculturalism and push for greater powers for the authorities against these people. these people are marginalized and are lashing out we need to be more inclusive and tolerant only then will we prevent these kinds of unfortunate situations in the future.

This is why we are in the situation we are in. The looney left can't be allowed to control who we let in anymore. Multiculturalism has failed and failed dramatically. Want to live in the west then conform to our ways or leave. Take the rags off your heads so we can see yer faces. Don't like it then get deported. Islam is a dangerous ideology wrapped in a messes up "religion "

hatrickpatrick · 14-11-2015 01:55PM

jon1981 wrote: »

It's funny how Ireland, NI and the UK troubles have been brought up in comparison. Correct me if I'm wrong, but crux of the matter was British rule and the search for a united Ireland leading to terrorist activity to achieve the goals of the various factions...etc.

It was never a world domination/destroy the west/ eradicate non believers agenda... these guys are bringing the fight EVERYWHERE! They are blowing up their own ppl sure!!

It was framed as a Catholic vs Protestant conflict when in reality it was a territorial dispute, and this current conflict is exactly the same. It is framed as a religious conflict when in reality most of those who engage in this terrorism are radicalised by seeing their countries attacked and pillaged by other countries.

Don't believe me? Look up the video of one of the London Tube bombers explaining his reasons for doing it. He hardly mentioned sectarianism, for him it was about watching people who shared his religion being indiscriminately bombed by the UK government in Iraq.

Anyone who honestly believes that the West's treatment of the Middle East isn't fuelling this stuff is delusional.

Eoin247 · 14-11-2015 01:56PM

jon1981 wrote: »

It's funny how Ireland, NI and the UK troubles have been brought up in comparison. Correct me if I'm wrong, but crux of the matter was British rule and the search for a united Ireland leading to terrorist activity to achieve the goals of the various factions...etc.

It was never a world domination/destroy the west/ eradicate non believers agenda... these guys are bringing the fight EVERYWHERE! They are blowing up their own ppl sure!!

I'd also like to point out that people are comparing Muslim discrimination to how Irish were treated in britain. Irish were discriminated because of literally who they are, they couldn't change the fact that they were irish. People here aren't bashing on syrians, Iraqis etc. They are bashing Islam which is completely and 100% optional.

walshyn93 · 14-11-2015 01:56PM

Ctrl Alt Delete wrote: »

I guess I am 100% wrong. I mean no cause during the 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s has gone to a different country to enhance their campaign.

Certainly not least the IRA, Basque or Chechens for example :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let's take it in context shall we? The reason this is happening in France more so than anywhere in Europe is because of the sheer number of Muslims. Frances security services are overrun because the potential pool of terrorists makes their workload impossible.

opiniated · 14-11-2015 01:57PM

pH wrote: »

It doesn't really matter, I think that the fate of the middle east is sealed once again for another few decades, the obvious thing to do will be to support hardline tinpot dictators who can brutalise the population and keep the west's hand clean of the whole thing. I would expect a subtle shift in the weeks to come, first to full support for Assad in Syria, and then trying to install the next Saddam/Gadaffi in Iraq and Libya.

I know it's kind of sad, but it's what's going to happen next.

Unfortunately, you're probably right.

The other alternative is that Europe will sit on its hand until Jihadists gain even more control.....

Deleted User wrote: »

It sounds to me like you know exactly how it can be solved but you are afraid to say it because it makes you feel bad. Unfortunately we don't need politicians to saw "it's an awful quandary". We all agree it's an awful quandary but sadly life is harsh sometimes and hard decisions need to be made, to at the very least FREEZE MASS IMMIGRATION FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES.

I'm not hating muslims, I'm just stating the bleeding obvious.

You're talking about a short-term, and very cruel, solution.

I don't think there is a solution where the innocent will not suffer, but it seems to me that border control, and background checks - with an emphasis on providing decent accomodation for those being processed, is the only way to go.
It's far from ideal, but turning refugees away isn't ideal, either, and allowing free movement of extremists has to be a pretty good definition of absolute insanity...

_oveless_ wrote: »

It will incite racist hate speech, Islam is the victim here it will be under attack now because of these unfortunate events, as well as the fact that one of the attackers was confirmed to be syrian it will lead people to reject refugees from here which is dangerously racist. we need to ignore and resist the people speaking out against islam, migration and multiculturalism and push for greater powers for the authorities against these people. these people are marginalized and are lashing out we need to be more inclusive and tolerant only then will we prevent these kinds of unfortunate situations in the future.

Pfft! Multiculturalism is one thing. Openly welcoming murderous, cowardly lunatics is another thing, entirely.

Like it or not, border controls are now a necessary evil. That evil is not caused by the people calling for border controls. It's caused by the inhuman freaks who have no human empathy.

With that, I'd add that I've just spent three hours reading about a tenth of this thread. I don't have that kind of time to spare. I may not post here again.

jon1981 · 14-11-2015 01:59PM

Eoin247 wrote: »

I'd also like to point out that people are comparing Muslim discrimination to how Irish were treated in britain. Irish were discriminated because of literally who they are, they couldn't change the fact that they were irish. People here aren't bashing on syrians, Iraqis etc. They are bashing Islam which is completely and 100% optional.

That's another difference, this is beyond borders. It's a naive attempt at genocide. Europe is about diversity, these "radicals" cannot accept diversity, they cannot follow any rules or laws not laid out by Allah !

rob316 · 14-11-2015 01:59PM

_oveless_ wrote: »

some racist scumbag posted this on my facebook, this is the kind of warped mentalities who want to stir up racial tension #standwithislam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

I watched it and her response was brilliant. Spot on - time to throw political correctness in the bin where it belongs.

I have said for years the world is afraid to offend and speak their mind and it would lead to trouble.

Negative_G · 14-11-2015 02:00PM

Has there been any comment or words of sympathy in response to this tragedy from the Islamic Cultural Centre in Clonskeagh?

Can't seem to find anything online. Not that I'm surprised.

Video on Sky News showing people clinging to the side of a building and people jumping over dead bodies escaping from the rear exit is very sobering.

RedemptionZ · 14-11-2015 02:00PM

There's around 300 million radicalised Muslims on the planet. I genuinely don't know how you can sit down and talk with them. I'm not saying all guns blazing is the approach but trying to reason with them isn't going to get anywhere.

not yet · 14-11-2015 02:00PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

You don't know what racism is, do you?

Something to do with Hastags I think..?

Bannasidhe · 14-11-2015 02:00PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

ISIS and it's supporters must be eliminated for the sake of the poor people who live under their rule and to prevent their hatred being used to terrorise the world. They don't understand any other language other than violence. There is no negotiating with them, no reasoning. Have you seen what they do to their victims in Syria? Appeasement and ignoring that will only embolden them. Of course the bleeding heart liberals believe they're just misunderstood and a bit of love will sort it all out.

I agree ISIS need to be eliminated.
I disagree that the way to do that is through yet more violence for the precise reason that violence is their language.

Where did I advocate appeasing ISIS? Or negotiating with them?

I haven't. Not once. Because I don't think we can.
I also don't think upping the violence will be anything but counter productive and play into their hands so we need to find a radical new approach.

I call it 'Don't feed the trolls'

I am advocating not turning moderate Muslims into extremists by bombing what is left of their homes and killing their families.

I am advocating that we stand firm in our principles and ethics of Western Liberal Democracy but not killing or imprisoning innocent people.

I am advocating not playing the bogieman role ISIS want us to play and showing moderate Muslims that Europe stands with them against extremism.

Offer refugees Sanctuary and when the Crazy Boys have all blown each other up for not being 'Muslimist' enough we aid people to return home and rebuild a la the Marshall Plan in the 1940s.

smash · 14-11-2015 02:03PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Some followers of Islam are blowing stuff up, most are not.
Some followers of Christianity are picketing funerals with signs saying "God hates fags" and bombing abortion clinics, most are not.
Some followers of Judaism are using religion to justify stealing land from their neighbours, most are not.

The hypocrisy lies in the fact that one of the three is having its entire support base tarred with one brush.

One of these three will not stand with the other two, to fight against their extremist minority sector. Or at least are not vocal enough to even express their disgust is mass numbers. That's what's worrying to most people. They just have not done enough to separate themselves from their minority. Sad but true.

Sunflower 27 · 14-11-2015 02:03PM

opiniated wrote: »

First and foremost, sincere sympathy to all those affected by this cowardly, sick, massacre.

Secondly, how should we deal with this horrendous mess?

Screaming hate at all muslims isn't the answer
Hate only generates more hate. And nothing causes resentment quicker than being unjustly accused.

On the other hand, where I have every sympathy for genuine refugees who are fleeing the Syrian crises, I've also watched videos of refugees who were downright arrogant about their "right" to enter Europe.

I'm a very tolerant person. I don't care what your race or religion is. If you're a good, decent person, that's fine.

So, if I get uneasy at the attitudes being displayed by some of these migrants, it's not because I'm prejudiced to begin with.

The next logical step, then, is to question how Isil would view the refugee crisis. It seems to me that the chaos that is the European border at the moment would look like a godsend. The perfect opportunity to infiltrate Europe.

The question is - how do you separate the genuine refugees who need help, from the radicalised extremists?

It's an awful quandary. It would be inhuman to turn away those who need, and deserve help. It would also contribute to feelings of resentment by those who are turned away, which will lead to more candidates for radicalisation.

On the other hand, it's insane to throw our borders open to people who are coming here with the intention of forcibly changing our way of life by violent, murderous, means.

It's catch 22, and I have no idea how it can be solved.:(

There is very little anyone can do. These sick monsters are happy to die for their 'cause', whatever that really is. When you have a fearless enemy what can you do? They don't care if they die. That is where they have the upper hand.

We will never wipe them all out anyway.

Custardpi · 14-11-2015 02:04PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Kurds and the Mujahideen are really not comparable. The former are nationalists who want to create their own state the latter were a rag bag fanatics from several places back by various sources (esp the Saudis) who just happened to be a handy bulwark for the USA. It would only be later they would reform as the Taliban at which point the fundamentalist ideology instilled by Saudi Wahhabi "schools" became apparent.

The Kurds only extremism is to form a homeland, and even there not all are demanding full independence, just peace and autonomy. They are certainly not interested in exporting terror against the west, and the religious mix within Kurdish Islam seems to negate the likelihood of Wahhabi style fundamentalism anyway.

We do need to be careful however. While Kurdish groups like the PKK & YPG tend to be secularist in outlook many Kurds are actually quite religious, some radically so. In Turkey Erdogan's AKP party has, up until recently a large amount of support from the Kurdish community, despite his opposition to Kurdish independence, due to their shared conservative values.

While I do believe that victory for the Kurds in the region they're fighting for is a just & worthwhile cause we should not be naïve about divisions on the ground & possible repercussions in the future. It's worth noting that the group recently arrested over fears of targeting diplomats was a Kurdish one.

14-11-2015 02:04PM

15-20% of 1.2 billion are radicals....

Reminds me of Father Ted

kleefarr · 14-11-2015 02:04PM

Negative_G wrote: »

Has there been any comment or words of sympathy in response to this tragedy from the Islamic Cultural Centre in Clonskeagh?

This is a major problem. If they don't voice their disgust at these types of things then they show themselves as condoning it.
Not good.

rob316 · 14-11-2015 02:04PM

Wether it was ISIS directly responsible or not is irrelevant. Their message of hate and their idology has brainwashed the Muslim around the world. A merciless extermination of them is all they deserve.

Saipanne · 14-11-2015 02:05PM

We need to stop referring to IS as a terrorist group. They have billions in assets, thousands of soldiers, armoured vehicles and control large areas of territory which they administer and tax.

It's at least an army, or at most a state.

RedemptionZ · 14-11-2015 02:05PM

Negative_G wrote: »

Has there been any comment or words of sympathy in response to this tragedy from the Islamic Cultural Centre in Clonskeagh?

Can't seem to find anything online. Not that I'm surprised.

Most Muslims I've seen on social networks seem to go into defense mode, not even acknowledging the attacks. Now it's obviously not their fault that these scum of the earth share their religion, but by failing to actually admit and in many cases denying that there's a problem of radicalisation in the religion. Time for Muslims to speak out against these. If they don't they're condoning it.

itoro · 14-11-2015 02:06PM

Syrian passport found on body of suicide bomber
AP is reporting that two French police officials say a Syrian passport was found on the body of one of the suicide bombers who targeted France's national soccer stadium.

www telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995541/Paris-shootings-terrorist-attack-french-victims-latest-news.html

My name is URL · 14-11-2015 02:06PM

Rightwing wrote: »

We need to put things in prespective here. What's the great need to have yourself covered up like a thug in a hoodie where no one can identify you ?

Extremists are challenging our way of life, and they are winning.

Time for the pc folk to 'téigh a chodladh'

Our way of life as in what? One that is socially progressive, one that allows people to make choices on their own accord?

You're talking about doing away with that freedom of choice for a sizable number of people. That plays right into the hands of extremists

Extremists don't want ordinary law abiding muslims living in places which are socially progressive. There's nothing they'd like more than to have thousands of decent people deported back to the shitholes where extremists are the ones in charge.

Shootings in Paris - MOD NOTE UPDATED - READ OP

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