When does this show actually get good?

I binge-watched it over Christmas and found it a great experience. Also I must be in the minority because I liked Season 2. :pac:

I'm finding it tough to warm to Season 5. That season wasn't part of the binge though so perhaps that's a factor.

TheDoc wrote: »

It's actually much better binge watching the show as the drawn out stories don't feel so long and the cliffhangers are quickly resolved.

Unfortunately the show has a midseason break, and that's lengthy enough, before end of season is upon you and it's another six month wait.

Big problem with the show is when it starts to ramp up it cuts off for a break.

I've been watching it on release since the very first episode, and that's what I find with it. Friends I've recommended too have really enjoyed it but now are like " ugh". The barn story arc for example was tedious week to week, but relatively fine for continuous watching.

I enjoy it personally. I think a lot of people have come into it maybe after season 1 and expected what was a big zombie blowup action show, when infact its a show purely around people. This show could take place in a nuclear post apocalyptic wasteland or a world destroyed by global warming, it wouldn't make a difference, its all about the characters and their development and change.

I think there is enough on TV or in back catalogs to drop it if I did genuinely start struggling with it, but I'm content and happy for now.

Yes, it takes it's ques from The Road more than from Zombie Land, which is no bad thing. I think they have the mix of action and character exposition about right at this stage (though last weeks show was dubious for a season opener of sorts).

Should I give up with this show? Im after investing 5 seasons and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight. I find its such a chore to watch, poorly written dialogue and characters who are frustratingly bad, is there going to be many more seasons and does anyone think season 6 will be an improvement?

CramCycle wrote: »

I thought season 6 (so far) has been the best since the pilot. The colour change was a nice way to tell time differences (although I have talked to alot of people who couldn't follow it, not sure why not).

This said I am expecting it to slow down very soon, which will be disappointing.

I feel this season has opened at a furious pace. The show dips between a season of high octance intensity, and a season of slower paced character development. Looks like this is shaping up to be a high paced season, which is obviously great. But the slow paced character driven stuff is just as crucial.

I've really only taken issue with the Barn season, other then that I've enjoyed the show entirely. So much so I started buying the graphic novel two months ago and reading that also. The differences and things are great along with it refreshing my memory of previous seasons.

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I know opinions are subjective and all that, but sometimes they are just wrong.

The opening wasn't great was OK and was kinda boring but it getting good now sorry you didn't like my opinion.

Wibbs wrote: »

I think that's an particularly American cultural undercurrent in much of their fiction.

It might not be political or cultural, though, let's not forget that the struggle approach makes for a more dramatic story. There's more drama in Kirk seeing a utopia and wanting to fix its flaws than in him saying "..cool, we should do that too."

(The example that sticks in my mind was the nuclear war conducted within a computer, with each side being informed of how many casualties had been suffered, and the required number of civilians being rounded up for execution as per the rules of the game. The utopian angle was that the destruction and misery of war had been eliminated, and only death remained. You could see the logic of it, but bloody hell...)

storker wrote: »

I think you're being a bit hard on Rick. Look at the history. They had a good setup at the farm, but that was destroyed. They also had a good setup at the prison but that was destroyed too. The setup at Woodbury was a good one too, but that was destroyed. Alright, Rick had a hand in that the the governor's psychotic behaviour was ultimately the root cause. Rick & co tried the more enlightened approach at the farm and the prison, and look how well those worked out. And let's not forget that at the farm, it was his own best friend who turned on him.

I think Rick looks at Alexandria in two ways: (1) a place to settle and be safe and (2) a massacre waiting to happen. (2) needs to be addressed before (1) can become a reality. If it wasn't for Carol's presence, the massacre would have happened already.

I do think they should have stopped for that hitch-hiker, though. Even in the zombie apocalypse, it's possible to be too paranoid.

I think Rick took the wrong lessons from the farm and the prison and woodbury. Shane (an insider and the "realist") brought down the farm. The prison collapsed despite (or maybe because) of the "realistic" approach of Rick and Carol. Woodbury was thriving under the Governor by absorbing small groups of survivors, not driving them out - it collapsed because of the Governor fixating on the potential threat of other organised groups of survivors. A mistake he made the second time around too with similar results. Even Terminus survived the worst outcome of a naive open door policy. They didn't survive the worst outcome of a "realistic" policy (provoking outsiders like Rick to fight for their lives). I think as a character, Rick has more to learn from the Alexandrians than they have to learn from him. They have outlived all those failed survivor camps. What is Rick seeking for his family if not what Alexandria have achieved?

Lets remember Ricks leadership can be summarised by his group being starving, paranoid and insecure, living rough on the run when Alexandria scouts found them. Its not a long tale of success for Ricks realistic policies.

Alexandria by comparison was secure, well fed and confident and capable enough to scout outside their walls, find groups, evaluate their compatibility with Alexandria and make offers for them to join them. Their "enlightened" policies worked for them.

A lot is made of Ricks group being pros and the Alexandrians being hopeless newbies, but their dubious expertise (their casualty rate on runs is horrific) hasn't helped the Alexandrians. Since Rick has joined Alexandria they've got less safe, not more so. There has been a total of 9 Alexandrians killed in short succession despite the expertise and leadership of Ricks group. Rick executed one himself, and threatened to execute another. Another died indirectly due to how Rick handled a particular problem (violently), and the others died on runs with Rick, Glenn and Michonne.

The Wolves killed what, 4 additional people in Alexandria?

On top of that Rick has plotted an armed coup, is pushing for Alexandria abandoning a successful policy of scouting and inviting useful survivors into the community, and caused dissent and infighting with the Alexandrians by telling his own people to abandon them if things got hectic.

Its very poor leadership with Heath obviously annoyed by it, and its not much different to Aiden and Nicholas abandoning people on their supply runs. Rick has morphed into someone who lacks the leadership skills of the Governor but tries to be as ruthless, the worst of both worlds.

Rick is definitely the central protagonist of the show, but I think him being proven right is only possible when the underlying theme of the show is as nihilistic and short sighted as I think it is. I think the show setting up Morgans extreme policy of not killing anyone as a contrast to Rick's view is a real reach. It seems to be to try make Rick seem reasonable and successful by comparison.

sabhail wrote: »

Maybe they'd have stopped on way back? Weren't they heading out somewhere , possibly was it episode with crazy Morgan ? Can't see u picking up unknown person when heading out on a run. On way back, well they did right thing, picked up bag to see if it had anything theyd use.

Well, if you pick him up on the outbound trip you get to "interview" him before he ever sees the prison or knows where it is. There is an instant opportunity to see what he can do to aid the group. Any redflags you can ditch him with little or no risk to the group back at the prison. If you pick him up on the return trip, then you can only get a sense of him after he knows where the prison is and poses a potential problem if exiled.

I mean that guy in particular (it was the crazy Morgan episode), their car was bogged down in the mud and they were trying to push the car out of it. All this while trying to escape from an extra pair of hands to help push. I just found the whole logic the show was pushing there to be so foolish. The skills people have are far more useful than whatever equipment they might carry.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

The people of Alexandria were very sheltered. If Rick and co hadn't found them, they would not have known about the thousands of walkers waiting to over run their "safe" compound. The people of Alexandria lived a charmed existance and they were lucky to survive this long.

Alexandria was not that sheltered though. It wasnt Rick and Co who found Alexandria, it was Alexandria who found Rick and Co because they were sending out scouts and supply runners beyond the walls to find people who could assist them. Aaron was one of those runners and he didnt curl up into a ball and die when the Wolves entered Alexandria - he fought and killed them.

I think Alexandria gets bizarrely criticised for being secure, well fed and confident. Whereas Rick and Co get bizarrely praised for being insecure, starving and paranoid. Alexandria was a successful survivor community before Rick came along. There is nothing wrong with that.

If we are talking about herd defence, why didn't Rick strengthen the prison defences despite the farm being overrun by a similar herd? Or the governor ramming down the gates with a van? The prison fences were seriously threatened by a few dozen walkers congregating in one spot because a small child left a few mice out. The people of Woodbury were able to build pits and lures to trap wandering walkers - Rick never bothered improving the prison defences or even blocking off the open entrance to the tombs. By contrast, the people of Alexandria quickly recognised a threat and built a defence with their walls. But they are criticised as being asleep, while Rick is awake and aware.

There is a defence for the ricktatorship if he was brutal and effective. The problem is, right now, he is brutal and ineffective. The character can (and does) grow, but right now, Rick showing up at your gate is about as welcome as Angela Lansbury coming to stay.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea that incident was a head scratcher in logic for me. Sure they were pushing the apocalypse kills your humanity angle, but in reality it would make much more sense to pick the guy up. For a start, here's a guy on his own carrying what he needs and is still alive and kicking over a year after the world went to hell. That's likely a guy with serious and useful skills(which also leaves his convenient bloody demise a head scratcher too) .

Disagree, Rick had much younger Carl with him plus Michonne who he didn't really trust. Stupid to bring in another unknown person who could be a threat.

sabhail wrote: »

Disagree, Rick had much younger Carl with him plus Michonne who he didn't really trust. Stupid to bring in another unknown person who could be a threat.

That's a good rationale, but I don't think Rick ever saw Michonne as a personal threat to him or Carl or he simply would not have brought Carl anywhere near her. He distrusted Michonne in that he didn't see her as reliable or a team player due to her solo run on the attack on Woodbury. He never saw her as a potential threat to him or Carl, and she had already demonstrated she would instinctively side with the group in any clear fight (i.e. killing that recluse, and the battle in Woodbury).

He allowed Michonne to go babysit Carl out of his sight while he is tied up with Morgan - no chance he would permit that if he thought she was likely to do anything other than backup Carl in against a clear threat from any external source.

Like I said, I think its a good rationale, but I don't think that was Ricks thinking in that particular case. I think it was a more simplistic "kill the doctor and take his medicine you have no idea how to use" thinking which the show pushes as realism.

Wibbs wrote: »

Yea that incident was a head scratcher in logic for me. Sure they were pushing the apocalypse kills your humanity angle, but in reality it would make much more sense to pick the guy up. For a start, here's a guy on his own carrying what he needs and is still alive and kicking over a year after the world went to hell. That's likely a guy with serious and useful skills(which also leaves his convenient bloody demise a head scratcher too) .

Yep, and picking the guy up is not necessarily incompatible with losing your humanity. Nobody say Rick ought to be out launching rescue missions, or that he even has to like the guy. But if he takes an angle of viewing human beings as a resource, then its still possible to play on the decline of humanity. We see that in Season 5 with the "Wards" system where humans are rescued, and then essentially enslaved with decisions on if they are worth medical care or even food linked to what skills or labour they can offer the group. Its a brutal, "realistic" system but still based on the more sensible idea that humans are useful.

See ya later

The fact that there is a thread on this page about when does the show get good is ridiculous if it's so bad don't watch it like the poster above

Also the worst counter arguement

Its like people come on these threads to dismantle an episode bit by bit , TV show in itself is an escape from reality , Yes theres going to be inaccuracies, mistakes, continuity errors etc people are 100% expecting to be picture perfect from there point of view thing is every one's point of view is different

Lets for argument sake take a few episodes this season the Morgan one lot of people said it was boring and it was **** , these were probably the same people when morgan appeared wearing all this mad get up and carrying a stick wondered what the **** he was upto ....well now you know

I think alot of people are used to shows like CSI and the like were all the episodes are contained more or less but the walking dead when watched as a series (the story) is 100% solid

Any one who's ever written a script or even gotten a short movie made will appreciate the walking dead and its rival game of thrones even more as they know the proper formula for making these things there not meant to be a quick fix , yes the 1st 3 episodes were massive but they were markers for the rest of the series to work 2 reasons why this is 1st off budget some people joke that they can't afford to pay every actor to be in each episode , thats probably not far off the mark and 2 laying the ground work of the characters , like for instance if Deana now dies in the last two episodes i might be a bit pissed off because they really showed her downfall and her recovery really well in episode 5