Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 12:06PM

Well he's spot on with what he said then, our defence has been that way for years In fairness. Something needs to be done about It, we don't need to sign Silva and Hummels we just need to be organised and disciplined. We make sooo many errors defensively and this zonal marking bollox needs to go

Irish Aris · 05-11-2015 12:06PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

I love how people just dismiss losses such as last night as a once off, or was important or we had too many injuries, lets just forget about It and move on guys It's not a big deal... It's hilarious to read stuff like this. The team Isn't good enough to get anywhere In Europe and we will struggle to keep a title race going. Players like Mertesacker and Debuchy aren't good enough anymore If we want to challenge.

Keep In mind last night that we had our first choice midfield, the back suffered because we were missing 2 starters but jesus If that's our back up for the back It really shows how far off the pace we are. As for attacking options, Campbell was the only one not a 1st teamer. Our options from the bench were extremely limited because yes we are suffering a bit of an injury crisis but the team we fielded should have been well capable of giving Bayern a game for the first 60 mins but alas we concede 4 goals and the majority of possession.

We have no leaders, no back bone, even with Petr Cech In goal our defence leaked 5. We looked like a 2nd rate team last night and we will be made to look that way on many occasions to come this Season. It's not reactionary to say guys like Mert aren't good enough. How many games does It take for It to not be classed as reactionary anymore? Last night was the first time I stopped watching an Arsenal match with time still left, I don't know If that says something about this team or I'm simply losing interest.

Consistency Is a word that Arsenal have not understood for many years now.

on many occasions I read?
That's over the top reaction in my eyes.

Other than that, you make some valid points in your post.
I would say that there are players that can be the leaders, so I don't know why it doesn't happen.

To me Arsenal at times feels like a machine or a production line - once one part of the process doesn't work (a player having a nightmare for example), the whole system seems to collapse.

csallmighty · 05-11-2015 12:07PM

Well I don't want to start next season with Arteta, Flamini as back up(this should be their last year) and Mert as first choice CB. Also the big injury list is always a constant.

The starting 11 is fine but injuries creep in and performance suffers.

The injuries so far are manageable but its 1 or 2 more away from a crisis.

JustTheOne · 05-11-2015 12:08PM

But yet we have 2nd best defensive record in the league this season.

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 12:11PM

JustTheOne wrote: »

But yet we have 2nd best defensive record in the league this season.

Maybe we have but it's not CL standard and hasn't been for years.
Our league is poor and that's why i think we can win it if we haven't the distractions of other competition and get our injured players back.

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 12:11PM

Irish Aris wrote: »

on many occasions I read?
That's over the top reaction in my eyes.

Other than that, you make some valid points in your post.
I would say that there are players that can be the leaders, so I don't know why it doesn't happen.

To me Arsenal at times feels like a machine or a production line - once one part of the process doesn't work (a player having a nightmare for example), the whole system seems to collapse.

Maybe, I certainly hope so, we can only wait and see, I'm not confident when Mert plays, Debuchy and Gab are liable to big mistakes and In general the back line Is poorly organised, It's fine playing poor opposition but against the big boys It's criminal.

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 12:12PM

That said, Bellerin,Kosc,Gab,Monreal Is a great back line of individual players, but for me that's all It Is, individuals.

Skylinehead · 05-11-2015 12:17PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

That said, Bellerin,Kosc,Gab,Monreal Is a great back line of individual players, but for me that's all It Is, individuals.

Is it? Sure, Bellerin and Gabriel will need more time in the team to work as a cohesive unit with the other two, but Monreal and Koscielny work superbly together.

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 12:20PM

Skylinehead wrote: »

Is it? Sure, Bellerin and Gabriel will need more time in the team to work as a cohesive unit with the other two, but Monreal and Koscielny work superbly together.

Do they? They run over each other a lot but maybe that's just me, even If Kosc and Mon do work well together that's only 50% of our back line.

Irish Aris · 05-11-2015 12:27PM

Ken Shamrock wrote: »

Maybe, I certainly hope so, we can only wait and see, I'm not confident when Mert plays, Debuchy and Gab are liable to big mistakes and In general the back line Is poorly organised, It's fine playing poor opposition but against the big boys It's criminal.

agreed.

My opinion is that anything that doesn't include Kos in the back, it's subject to liability.
It is either Kos/Mert or Kos/Gabriel.
I think that the Kos/Mert combination works better when we are defending a lot and covering distances is not a priority. I think Mert's experience is valuable in bringing a certain organising and calmness.
For games where we have the possession and do less defending (most home games), I prefer Kos/Gabriel, as they can track back quicker if needed.

emmetlego · 05-11-2015 12:33PM

And now for some other news... Let's face it, depspite me expecting a hammering prior to the game, it is pretty depressing...

So to change the subject for the time being... Karim Benzema has been charged and is formally being investigated on this sex tape blackmailing... #WengerKnowsBest :-)

farna_boy · 05-11-2015 12:43PM

Don't get all the hate for Mert at all. I don't think he is the main problem and wasn't the main problem last night either. The biggest problem last night was that Debuchy was so rusty. He grew into the game in the second half and made a really good tackle on Robben but it is clear to see that not having played in so long has affected his performance.

I also think that Mert and Gabriel need some time together on the pitch to build up an understanding in case injuries like what has happened at the moment happens again, which it will inevitably. The game last night is the type of game that actually suits Mert quite well, where we sit deep and defend. There are other games where he shouldn't be chosen i.e. if we want to play a high line but again I think the problem last night was the lack of a relationship between Mert and Gabriel and probably Debuchy as well. I'm not even sure that they have even played together before.

Maybe for less important games (whatever they are) we should have a bit more rotation so players can build up relationships but it's hard to rotate if the team is doing well and winning.

I think the thing that annoyed me most about last night was how poor some of the first touches were and how often we gave the ball away cheaply. We would regain possession and immediately just punt it away. I know Giroud was heavily marked but some of the balls aimed at him seemed to be just kicked in his general direction rather than actually trying to pick him out. Whatever else you think about him, he is generally good at holding up the ball, so if we were able to pass it to him it would have at least relieved the defence for a small bit rather than just momentarily.

Ken Shamrock · 05-11-2015 01:02PM

Irish Aris wrote: »

agreed.

My opinion is that anything that doesn't include Kos in the back, it's subject to liability.
It is either Kos/Mert or Kos/Gabriel.
I think that the Kos/Mert combination works better when we are defending a lot and covering distances is not a priority. I think Mert's experience is valuable in bringing a certain organising and calmness.
For games where we have the possession and do less defending (most home games), I prefer Kos/Gabriel, as they can track back quicker if needed.

That's the thing, he has experience and Is a world winner, yet I see nothing to suggest that he Is a leader, he does not organise the defence what so ever infact he himself Is often lazy and unorgansied look at one of the goals for the Sheffield game.

He offers none of the qualities that he should and It seems some people just assume he's organising and calming things down because of his experience when I see little to suggest he does anything for our back line on or off the pitch.

05-11-2015 01:12PM

Fierce amount of handwaving today.

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 01:17PM

farna_boy wrote: »

Don't get all the hate for Mert at all. I don't think he is the main problem and wasn't the main problem last night either. The biggest problem last night was that Debuchy was so rusty. He grew into the game in the second half and made a really good tackle on Robben but it is clear to see that not having played in so long has affected his performance.

I also think that Mert and Gabriel need some time together on the pitch to build up an understanding in case injuries like what has happened at the moment happens again, which it will inevitably. The game last night is the type of game that actually suits Mert quite well, where we sit deep and defend. There are other games where he shouldn't be chosen i.e. if we want to play a high line but again I think the problem last night was the lack of a relationship between Mert and Gabriel and probably Debuchy as well. I'm not even sure that they have even played together before.

Mert has been good but is prone to the odd very bad game. He is slow and causes me, for one, to panic when he comes out too far as he's so slow getting back. We can't play a high line with him in the team.

What is unforgivable is his turning away from shots in order not to be hit. He did it again last night and that is just cowardly.

05-11-2015 01:28PM

I don't see the point in playing Gabriel and Mertesacker together a lot. Mertesacker has a couple of years of playing left and Gabriel will be leaving Arsenal around the same time when people accept that the "few" mistakes he makes are just how he plays.

Anyway, after Spurs we have as handy a run in the league as one could hope for so anything less than top of the league before the City match will be poor going.

efb · 05-11-2015 01:30PM

Merse talks through his hoop in fairness - our 2 best defenders out playing world class opposition - its a no brainer

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 01:41PM

efb wrote: »

Merse talks through his hoop in fairness - our 3 best defenders out playing world class opposition - its a no brainer

Who is the 3rd?

I also think Merson is passionate about Arsenal and deserves his view.

05-11-2015 01:48PM

If we can't make it work with two direct back-ups then we're ****ed. I mean Jesus Christ, why can't we sign a solid defender who doesn't **** up when called up? We're not going to have 2 CBs each play 50+ matches per season so we need a third and that's Gabriel and he's useless. And Debuchy is replacing a child. A child in excellent form without a doubt but remember the hype last year for Debuchy? Now he's "just a back-up".

DeclanRe · 05-11-2015 01:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Who is the 3rd?

I also think Merson is passionate about Arsenal and deserves his view.

You can be passionate about a club, similar to Gary Nevile with Utd, or Carragher with liverpool. But then you have Merse who has a chip on his shoulder ever since Wenger called him out last year for some of his comments. And ever since he's just consistently complained about the club, the manager, players etc. He's a pain to listen to. He had 2 failed years at Walsall managing, and now he thinks he's a tactical genius

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 01:50PM

DeclanRe wrote: »

You can be passionate about a club, similar to Gary Nevile with Utd, or Carragher with liverpool. But then you have Merse who has a chip on his shoulder ever since Wenger called him out last year for some of his comments. And ever since he's just consistently complained about the club, the manager, players etc. He's a pain to listen to. He had 2 years at Walsall managing, and he thinks he's a tactical genius

I think it's a bit like Catchphrase i.e. Say what you see.
Merson called the defending for what it was. We all saw it.

2ndcoming · 05-11-2015 01:52PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I am long enough watching, playing and coaching to know that our defence had been neglected as far as coaching goes. Paul Merson has just been interviewed on Sky Sports and he said it has been embarrassing watching our defence in the three CL matches we lost. He described them as being naive and not knowing what they were doing. He said they are not set up properly and don't know their jobs.
That is some indictment of our defensive coaching and coming from a passionate Arsenal defender of the past.

Paul Merson knows as much about defending as he does about picking the winner of the Eurovision. If you read his book, you'll know that's not much. Hummels, Subotic and co are widely praised and had the exact same result a few weeks ago. Our defence is easily one of the best in England and the stats support this. Try not to read too much into the scoreline against a ruthless killing machine like Bayern.

wonga77 · 05-11-2015 01:53PM

efb wrote: »

Merse talks through his hoop in fairness - our 3 best defenders out playing world class opposition - its a no brainer

Kos, Bellerin and ....?

efb · 05-11-2015 01:58PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Who is the 3rd?

I also think Merson is passionate about Arsenal and deserves his view.

Kos Monreal and Bellerin

Edit Monreal was playing

efb · 05-11-2015 02:00PM

tayto lover wrote: »

I think it's a bit like Catchphrase i.e. Say what you see.
Merson called the defending for what it was. We all saw it.

Typical hurler on the ditch comment

DeclanRe · 05-11-2015 02:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If we can't make it work with two direct back-ups then we're ****ed. I mean Jesus Christ, why can't we sign a solid defender who doesn't **** up when called up? We're not going to have 2 CBs each play 50+ matches per season so we need a third and that's Gabriel and he's useless. And Debuchy is replacing a child. A child in excellent form without a doubt but remember the hype last year for Debuchy? Now he's "just a back-up".

I initially loved this thread, but then there are times like this where you come in and see people completely writing off players. One player has a bad run of form and he's completely hung out to dry. To say that Gabriel is useless is comical - players need time to adapt and will make mistakes, if you were to tar every player with the same brush then Ozil would have been dropped a season ago, as would Ramsey a couple of seasons ago, Monreal also.

As for Debuchy - there is no doubt he is a decent player. But he barely gets a game, obviously due to Bellerins amazing form. You can't expect someone who has sat on the bench for most of the season to come into a game like that and be 100%
And if someone can give me of an example of a player who could do that please let me know!

05-11-2015 02:07PM

DeclanRe wrote: »

I initially loved this thread, but then there are times like this where you come in and see people completely writing off players. One player has a bad run of form and he's completely hung out to dry. To say that Gabriel is useless is comical - players need time to adapt and will make mistakes, if you were to tar the same player with every brush then Ozil would have been dropped a season ago, as would Ramsey a couple of seasons ago, Monreal also.

Don't put words in my mouth. I've rated Monreal since he got here, and don't recall ever looking for Ozil to be dropped. As for Ramsey, if he's our first choice on the right then we need to make a signing.
Gabriel has played 17 matches for Arsenal. If he'd made 2 big mistakes then give him a pass, he's been useless since he signed and I've seen little to suggest he'll make it. Other than celebrating winning a tackle at the end of a match which apparently makes him a legend.

As for Debuchy - there is no doubt he is a decent player. But he barely gets a game, obviously due to Bellerins amazing form. You can't expect someone who has sat on the bench for most of the season to come into a game like that and be 100%
And if someone can give me of an example of a player who could do that please let me know!

When United were steamrolling the league did they have the same back 4 all season? They were always able to slot in replacements who were solid if not spectacular. Why can't we get that? If a player can't come in as a replacement then they shouldn't be on the bench.

greendom · 05-11-2015 02:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't put words in my mouth. I've rated Monreal since he got here, and don't recall ever looking for Ozil to be dropped. As for Ramsey, if he's our first choice on the right then we need to make a signing.
Gabriel has played 17 matches for Arsenal. If he'd made 2 big mistakes then give him a pass, he's been useless since he signed and I've seen little to suggest he'll make it. Other than celebrating winning a tackle at the end of a match which apparently makes him a legend.

When United were steamrolling the league did they have the same back 4 all season? They were always able to slot in replacements who were solid if not spectacular. Why can't we get that? If a player can't come in as a replacement then they shouldn't be on the bench.

He's not been useless since he was signed. He's a fine defender and has shown it for us on plenty of occasions

JustTheOne · 05-11-2015 02:19PM

Dumphy was right lads.

We needed a John Terry out there last night as he would have hurt a player and we wouldn't have lost like we did.

tayto lover · 05-11-2015 02:22PM

efb wrote: »

Typical hurler on the ditch comment

The man has won things with Arsenal as a defender and played with England too so he's surely entitled to his opinion. When he was there fans used to shout "one nil to the Arsenal" as they knew it would usually be enough. You don't hear those chants now for some reason.
Fair play to him and Ian Right for not being afraid to voice their opinions.

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2015/16 ( Mod Note linked in OP 29/12)

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